2015 November 15 Sunday
Terrorists Draw Support From Their Communities

Maajid Nawas on support that terrorists draw from their communities.

And no insurgency is sustainable, or even possible, without a level of residual support for its core ideological aims among the core communities from which it draws its fighters.

As I've argued, terrorists lie at the tail of a distribution of people with varying degrees of sympathy, shared values, shared beliefs, and willingness to help or ignore. If you can understand that then a bunch of liberal beliefs about terrorism look absurd.

Molenbeek Belgium is giving us a signal. It is an indication of wht hte rest of Europe could become. The signal is coming from other parts of Europe too.

Jihadism has well and truly taken root among an entire generation of angry young Muslims. This is particularly the case in Europe, where thousands have left to join ISIS.

Therefore European leaders are crazy to dig an even deeper hole for their peoples with the current policy about Muslim migrants.

Consider the reasoning in this paragraph. Because the attackers are mostly born in Europe he thinks it does not make sense to become anti-immigrant. After all, the first generation won't be that radical. Only the second and later generations. This is crazy reasoning. The first generation will have babies. Those babies will become more radicalized than their parents. What then? What lies in store for Germany?>

For now, my guess will be that these attacks will only aid the anti-immigrant rhetoric of France’s far right, sweeping xenophobes to prominence, further polarizing communities, which for good or for bad, will only sustain the process of radicalization even further. This is so despite the fact that France has taken hardly any Syrian refugees, and Germany, which has taken hundreds of thousands, has yet to be hit as hard as France has. European born and raised jihadists have so far posed the biggest problem, not immigrants.

20 years from now the children born from the current immigrant wave will feel what about European people as compared to Muslim people?

What about in Arab countries? Take a look at the key role that al Azhar university in Cairo plays in teaching young Muslims beliefs that turn them into Jihadists. They are getting their ideas from the mainstream of present day Islamic academic thought.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2015 November 15 07:39 PM 


Comments
TangoMan said at November 15, 2015 11:53 PM:

After all, the first generation won't be that radical. Only the second and later generations. This is crazy reasoning.

Exactly. This is like being pro-thalidomide because it doesn't cause any disfigurement in the mother who takes the pill, so what's the problem?

john said at November 16, 2015 10:08 AM:

Hell, never mind radicalism, what is the advantage, to Europe or to civilization, of a European area or country becoming Muslim? Ask some lefty who supports mass migration. What is the goal and motivation here except a blind genocidal hatred of white people and a desire to exterminate them?

Jim said at November 16, 2015 11:43 AM:

The sensible thing to do is to stop any further emigration of Moslems into Europe and begin deporting those already there back to where they came from. Continuance of the present policies will eventually lead to the deaths of millions.

John Milton said at November 16, 2015 12:20 PM:

All forms of religious indoctrination should at this point be banned and it should be doned worldwide, something like the declaration of human rights. The Stanley Milgram Experiment tells us that radicalism and cruelty is a characteristic of all humans if they suffer from alienation and agentification.

Religious studies should be relegated to its historicity only. Most politicians still hold those bronze-age beliefs in bloody fitful gods and claim to know their will. Even if Ala or Yaweh existed it is time to realize they should be rejected on moral grounds, because they have proven to be harmful to humans, they have proven to behave in ways only the sickest psychopaths would only aspire to be.

John Milton said at November 16, 2015 1:26 PM:

"Hell, never mind radicalism, what is the advantage, to Europe or to civilization, of a European area or country becoming Muslim? Ask some lefty who supports mass migration. What is the goal and motivation here except a blind genocidal hatred of white people and a desire to exterminate them?"

Only a few decades ago Germans -which are white Europeans- and Japanese carried a blind genocidal hatred of semites, whites, orientals with the actual accomplishment of the slaughter of over 60 million people.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country-


"What about in Arab countries? Take a look at the key role that al Azhar university in Cairo plays in teaching young Muslims beliefs that turn them into Jihadists. They are getting their ideas from the mainstream of present day Islamic academic thought."

Most of the world has learned a lot from the blind genocidal hatred of the white people. We gotta be unbiased if we want to say something of real use here. Yes Azhar university teaches beliefs that turn Muslims into Jihadists, just like many of our universities and our military institutions? They also teach agression as a form of religion. What about the abuse and humiliation so many American soldiers agreed to at the Abu Ghraib prison a few years ago. What about a couple of centuries of U.S. military interventions -with casualties and chaos- and even a little further back, Libya, Iraq, Vietnam, Latin America, the Civil War, the massacre and genocide against the Native American Indians that went on more that 200 hundred years.

Does all that becomes less brutal because white christians do it? Does the slaughter that our certainty in "democracy" or Yaweh's commands is less immoral because it is ours? If Ala commands it is wrong, but if Yaweh commands it's ok? When "one nation" believes to live "under God" it becomes a theocracy even if it is disguised of "liberty and justice for all". Remember that what theocracies do is carry out cruzades, and we could hear the dirty word many times puked out of Bush's lips. We too have a theocracy in America and even though our jihadists have different names, they are jihadists.

Jim said at November 16, 2015 2:02 PM:

John Milton - Cruelty has been common throughout history. However if you wish to avoid enormous future violence and suffering you should realize that Europeans and Middle Easterners/North Africans are simply incompatible people. They need to be kept separate if there is to be any chance of peace between them.

Obviously if one tried to suppress Islam as a religion that in itself would lead to enormous violence. So your talk of banning religion is silly. You object to religion as a cause of violent conflict but an attempt to ban religion would itself generate enormous violence and conflict.

Wolf-Dog said at November 16, 2015 10:18 PM:

>> "Obviously if one tried to suppress Islam as a religion that in itself would lead to enormous violence.
>> So your talk of banning religion is silly. You object to religion as a cause of violent conflict but an
>> attempt to ban religion would itself generate enormous violence and conflict.

////////////////////////////////////

In this is the case, then let's make the abandonment of Islam make a precondition for immigration. It should be written in the first paragraph of the application form, no tricks, no underhanded fine print, etc..

They don't have to immigrate here if they don't want to.

Nazi literature is forbidden in Germany. More than 50 % of the Qur'an is about non-Muslims and how to deal with them. The misinterpretation of the Qur'an is probably in the other 49 %.

Jim said at November 17, 2015 5:34 AM:

Wolf Dog - Obviously neither the Europeans nor the US should allow any significant amount of Moslem immigration. However it's not just a matter of religion. The genetic nature of Middle Eastern populations is poorly compatible with European populations. In the case of Mexican immigration into the US there is not a problem of Islamic fanaticism but nevertheless they are poorly compatible with American whites being about two-thirds of a standard deviation below the American white population in intelligence.

Wolf-Dog said at November 17, 2015 2:41 PM:

Ridiculous. Polish people are North European, but Germans were happy to demote the Poles to slavery during WW II. Both nations are Nordic. Maybe the German Jews should be deported to Africa in your view. You should be ashamed of yourself. Those half-Jewish Europepans who were able to hide their ancestry, never caused any negative reaction in Europe.

Jack Colmner said at November 17, 2015 5:01 PM:

I'm beginning to think that the most radical terrorists really are some of the governments, maybe the only serious ones anyway. I'm detecting a patern here of problem-reaction-solution. President Francois Hollande is now wanting to have the constitution changed, just like the Patriot Act after 9-11. Back in September he said that he ruled out bombing Syria. I'm seriously considering that high ranking politicians have not much problem in killing a few of their own citizens to get unrestricted licence to continue invading and bombing other countries. Just in 3 days of French bombings in Syria more civilians have died than in this so called terrorist attacks. Of course it is a tragedy that all those people died, but the media always makes it seem as if French, American, British citizens were more important than Syrian citizens. To me this is a false flag operation.

Funny thing that terrrorists have never thought of doing a major or really seious damage to a rich country, like bombing a power station, nuclear plant, or polluting water reservoirs big time... In fact shooting at Christian infidels at St. Peter's Square during a Pope's message would give them a greater death toll. How about a soccer stadium during the World Cup loaded with nearly a hundred thousand civilians, or the Superbowl... Let me be clear at this point, that all my respects and condolences go to the victims of this attack in France or any other attack against humans in general. I just think it was another false flag, a French one to get a piece of the action in Syria, but the preferred methods of official terrorism we see are a little like we see in movies: noisy explosions, dramatic shootings, big time building demolitions (preferably at an hour in which there will be the least possible casualties, not too many) just a lot of noise, media, drama, mediatic outrage, the whole thing. But we don't see much outrage for all those thousands of kids dying, enslaved or tortured every year, for example.

Jim said at November 18, 2015 3:58 AM:

Wolf Dog - Certainly European peoples have a long history of fighting among themselves. It hardly follows that flooding Europe with alien peoples who have been in conflict with Europeans for over 1300 years is going to make for a peaceful Europe. It will lead to enormous violence in the future.

Seth W. said at November 18, 2015 1:41 PM:

To Jack Colmner,,,

The president of France has already suppressed rights and freedoms for the French for the following 3 months, at least that's what he says, but yes, a lot like the Patriot Act. So what I'm saying is that you might be on the right track. The official Western media -tv, radio and print- might not be worthy of trust anymore on most issues. Luckily we have internet.

By the way, I had never really thought about how much harm can terrorists really do if they wanted and in how many assorted methods. It's possible, but how feasible would it be?

Seth W. said at November 18, 2015 2:03 PM:

To Jim,,,

I also fail to see why you are so sure that immigrants would necessarily lead to enormous violence in Europe. Maybe overpopulation, I'll grant you that. Countries have laws and they apply to all citizens, residents and visitors, immigrants or not. The U.S. has been the melting pot of immigrants of different cultures and races, and they all turned the U.S. into the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Just take a look at New York....pretty peaceful really considering all the millions living there, unlike the nasty violence in homogeneous Mexico City or Rio de Janeiro. There has been peace in the U.S. regardless of all the different immigrant populations. The major inner conflict was the Civil War, and that was due to the question of continuing slavery and other issues not the immigrants living here. I think you are assuming too much without any deep consideration. Poverty and inequality leads to violence not nationality or race. I don't see many white collar immigrants turning violent anywhere... even if they are not white. I invite you to reconsider.

Wolf-Dog said at November 18, 2015 2:59 PM:

Seth W: "I don't see many white collar immigrants turning violent anywhere..."
/////////////////////////////////////

Good point, but nevertheless, it has been reported one of the terrorists that killed 129 people in Paris last week, studied in one of the most elite college preparatory high schools in France. The average IQ of the kids who study in those elite French high schools must be 150. In fact, the revolutionary leaders and many of their immediate minions are highly educated and intelligent people like doctors, etc. One of the 9/11 terrorists was a doctor.

Here is a very good interview with the American-French anthropologist Scott Atran, who is an expert on terrorism and ISIS. He explains that Islamic State is underestimated and that calling them "psychopathic killers, etc" does not reveal the truth: he argues that this is a true revolutionary movement and that it has a chance of being successful in the future, and that historically, all revolutionary movements in the past followed similar scripts when they were initially underestimated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvib4JNiPDE

Dr.Atran explains that ISIS is more like the Hitler Youth movement that viewed itself as a movement with a vision of the future in its embryonic state during the 1920s, and not just a group of 7th century bigots who want to turn the clock back.

Jim said at November 18, 2015 4:36 PM:

To Seth W - A poll in France last year reported that 16% of the French population supports ISIS. The support for ISIS in the 18-24 age group was 27%! France is in deep shit. The great wars of the twentieth century were nationalistic wars. Poverty and inequality play a minor role in human conflict. Human conflict far more often occurs along ethnic or religious splits than along economic splits. Class identities are very weak compared to ethnic or religious identities. In the conflict in Yugoslavia ethnic groups fought one another not economic classes. Conflict in the Ukraine is between ethnic groups not economic classes. Conflict in the Middle East today involves ethnic groups like Turks vs. Kurds or religious sects like Shia vs. Sunni. Bloody conflict between economic classes does occur sometimes but it is much less common in history than conflicts between ethnicities or religions.

Islam and the West have been in frequently bloody conflict for over 1300 years. Europeans and North Africans/Middle Easterners put together are two scorpions in a bottle.

Wolf-Dog said at November 18, 2015 4:52 PM:

>> "The support for ISIS in the 18-24 age group was 27%! "
/*-------------------------------------- */

This is because although it is illegal to conduct statistics on religion and race in France, anecdotal evidence indicates that in many French hospitals nearly 30 % of the babies have Muslim names even though only 10 % of France is Muslim, a lot of teenagers are Muslims in France.

In the hospitals of England (not Scotland) similar statistics are true: the percentage of Muslim babies in hospitals in England and Wales is nearly 2 times higher than the percentage of Muslims in UK. right now approximately 4.8 % of UK is Muslim, but nearly 9.1 % of babies are Muslim in England.

Thus, if we combine the higher birth rate of Muslims in Europe, with the fact that millions of incoming Muslim immigrants will continue to populate EU and the fact that a lot of Europeans are actually emigrating, the future of EU looks very bad.

Check it out said at November 19, 2015 3:29 PM:

Good point Jack Colmer.

Most idiots here just don't get that it is possible that all these terrorists are just paid stooges of fucken CIA. They really make themselves think that ISIS doesn't serve the interests of the U.S. They just can't grasp that when "terrorists" say they're going to attack Washington, London, Paris, they are just informing -not warning, not threatening- the societies of these countries that their governments are going to create another false flag operation to arouse the outrage of the population and thus be able to do the kind of shit we constantly see worldwide. All the god-damned web is filled with real information -not fucken Fox or CNN News- that anybody can access if they just cared to get their heads out of their asses. Fuck, even Youtube has better and more accurate information than the news on tv, if you know where to look in a sytematic way.

Most idiots can't even see how clear it is that the only ones really gaining something from all these terrorist attacks are the FUKUS Axis -France UK US- governments, and boy do they benefit: unrestricted licence from public opinion to invade, destroy and plunder countries. Even comedians like Carlin know this shit.

After I read your post I put myself to think why terrorists really never do any of those things you mention. I came up with a couple extra myself like silently cutting or removing small pieces of railroad tracks here and there or blowing up a pipeline, or what about trowing all sorts of poisonous chemicals into the Mississippi or Thames Rivers -oh fuck, sorry. I forgot they already do these terrorist acts legally-.

Explosions outside a stadium??? What the fuck is this shit? Terrorist with a conscience all of a sudden? Terrorists being so careful and concerned making sure not do harm the French president watching the match inside the stadium? And people really buy that shit? What the fuck?

Check it out said at November 19, 2015 3:44 PM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GlrU7h8E9Y

You have a natural tendency
To squeeze off a shot
You're good fun at parties
You wear the right masks
You're old but you still
Like a laugh in the locker room
You can't abide change
You're at home on the range
You opened your suitcase
Behind the old workings
To show off the magnum
You deafened the canyon
A comfort a friend
Only upstaged in the end
By the Uzi machine gun
Does the recoil remind you
Remind you of sex
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
I looked over Jordan and what did I see
Saw a U.S. Marine in a pile of debris
I swam in your pools
And lay under your palm trees
I looked in the eyes of the Indian
Who lay on the Federal Building steps
And through the range finder over the hill
I saw the front line boys popping their pills
Sick of the mess they find
On their desert stage
And the bravery of being out of range
Yeah the question is vexed
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
Hey bartender over here
Two more shots
And two more beers
Sir turn up the TV sound
The war has started on the ground
Just love those laser guided bombs
They're really great
For righting wrongs
You hit the target
And win the game
From bars 3,000 miles away
3,000 miles away
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gain terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range


Great tune by Roger Waters a the Rose Garden, specially dedicated to "Engineer Dad" and "Jim" so they can jerk themselves off on it.


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