2014 February 02 Sunday
Teen Girls Want Idols Who Won't Tell Them The Truth

Athlone McGinnis explains that male celebrities need to avoid describing anything they would not like in a woman so as to avoid hurting the feelings of their followers.

These female fanbases consist of young (usually anywhere from 12-25) women who are, more often than not, quite insecure. Their fandom is often based heavily on the maintenance of a mental “relationship” with the celebrity: they may never date him, but they like to maintain the fantasy that they could someday and often place themselves in that position in their own hearts and minds. The maintenance of that relationship is the key to his celebrity: it is what keeps these girls going to his premiers, buying tickets to his shows, subscribing to every one of his social media accounts and snapping up every song he makes on iTunes. This imaginary relationship is extremely important to these girls on a personal level, and they are extremely insecure about any notion that could take it away from them. What does the relationship actually look like? Think of it like this: when he sings a love/romantic song, they imagine that he is singing to them personally.

A young social media star named Nash Grier made the mistake of making a video where he and his friends each described things they do not like in women. Large numbers of girls emoted painfully

This last bit is key because of her insecurity: she has built up this fantasy and the last thing she wants is to have it contradicted in any way, especially by the male in question. When he says there is something that he doesn’t like in a girl, she will imagine that he is speaking directly to her. If she perceives herself to be lacking some trait he explicitly desires, she’ll get very upset.

Do celebrity men get trained on what to say? Or does natural selection make honest men into losers in the competition for celebrity status.

An example response to his video from xxPunkRockGirl13xx:

Why the hell would you tell us to be ourselves when you clearly don’t like nor will you find interest in who some of us are? My self esteem was already low, but now, its worse. Thanks Nash. Congrats, you lost a vine follower.

Another good example from Fishylove123:

I find Nash’s comment at 7:10 so ironic… Be yourself? How can I be myself when you have such a long list of things that I need to be to be good enough? Thank for making me feel self conscious about myself.

I see a larger problem here: We live in an era where honest and realistic descriptions of human nature are seen as mean. The feminist left sees the masculine right as a bunch of meanies. The claim of a Republican war on self esteem shows twisted the sensitive have become in their placement of feelings ahead of truth.

When Jack Nicholson famously said "You can't handle the truth" what he said really describes American society. Will the pendulum swing back?

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2014 February 02 11:01 PM 

Roy said at February 3, 2014 6:36 AM:

This happened to be the next thing I read after today's XKCD.

Which is an interesting illustration: point out that stated preferences differ from revealed preferences for all humans, or that all humans make failures in judgement, and you can still be a fine psychologist or economist to the left, even beloved if you point out the resulting market failures. But point out that female humans are a subset of the whole and complete the syllogism, and you're a horrible person.

map said at February 3, 2014 11:47 AM:

This is all a part of the eternal solipsism of the female mind. Just like women imagine they have relationships with male celebrities, they imagine that they are the female celebrity performing on stage.

One of the interesting facts about Taylor Swift, for example, is how she simply does not sing as well as comparable country stars. Her vocal performances on SNL sound thin, at least compared to, say, Martina McBride, and other country stars who have a real set of pipes.

Yet, this is part of TS's charm. Her vocal range does not put her beyond the ability of her female fans from singing her songs, allowing the fans to pretend that it is they who are on stage, and not Taylor Swift.

Unfortunately, this eternal solipsism exists in important areas like policy and politics, driven to extremes by American society's wish never to let women face the consequences of their decision-making.

Idoru said at February 3, 2014 7:25 PM:

I'm not sure why you think this is isolated to women.
Male followers of Japanese idol singers act exactly the same way. If it leaks out that they've kissed or held hands with someone, their career fails.

Randall Parker said at February 3, 2014 8:36 PM:


Britney Spears has a much better voice than Taylor Swift. Plus, her songs are not about her getting used by guys. I mean, Taylor Swift makes Britney look great in comparison. Britney in her prime was superior.

map said at February 3, 2014 11:56 PM:


I don't understand your point. Yes, BS has a much better voice than TS. TS's songs are heartbreak songs over dealing with badboys.

I don't understand what comparison you are making.

chris said at February 4, 2014 4:58 AM:

I posted this at Heartiste and it may be relevant here;


Second, high status and very attractive women need less help and protection from other women and are less motivated to invest in other women (who represent potential competition). Thus, a woman who tries to distinguish or promote herself threatens other women and will encounter hostility. According to Benenson, a common way women deal with the threat represented by a remarkably powerful or beautiful woman is by insisting on standards of equality, uniformity, and sharing for all the women in the group and making these attributes the normative requirements of proper femininity.

My God. I think he just described feminism.

He is talking about this study here:


Throughout their lives, women provide for their own and their children’s and grandchildren’s needs and thus must minimize their risk of incurring physical harm. Alliances with individuals who will assist them in attaining these goals increase their probability of survival and reproductive success. High status in the community enhances access to physical resources and valuable allies. Kin, a mate, and affines share a mother’s genetic interests, whereas unrelated women constitute primary competitors. From early childhood onwards, girls compete using strategies that minimize the risk of retaliation and reduce the strength of other girls. Girls’ competitive strategies include avoiding direct interference with another girl’s goals, disguising competition, competing overtly only from a position of high status in the community, enforcing equality within the female community and socially excluding other girls.

So feminists’ promotion of anti slut-shaming and anti fat-shaming and anti ugly-shaming and anti single-mother-shaming etc, is really just an execution of women’s intra-sexual competitive strategies. It’s the bottom third of women versus the top two thirds. Or perhaps it’s the bottom quarter, as if I remember correctly only 20-25% of women identify as feminist.

With knowledge such as this, you can easily reframe any leftist/feminist argument about a war on women as instead a war by the bottom loser women against the top successful women.

It’s the SU’s (Sluts & Uglies) versus the HB’s.

The benefit of such tactical reframing is; what woman wants to be seen as a loser (ugly and slutty) and not as a winner (beautiful and lovely)? What woman wants to belong to the bottom quarter and not the top three quarters? To admit this would be to destroy their feminine egos. With such reframing, you could get the hamster working for you.

Engineer-Poet said at February 6, 2014 9:14 PM:
This is all a part of the eternal solipsism of the female mind.

I believe this is what Heartiste calls "the hamster".

I have seen the aftermath of this in action.  A fem-fan of a star of a late-70's TV series wound up being thrown off a celebrity-encounter cruise after her obsession was revealed to the star's security staff.  The aftermath has been, to put it mildly, "interesting".

Glengarry said at February 24, 2014 11:38 AM:

"Be yourself? How can I be myself when ..."

What man hasn't heard these well-meaning words already? So stop complaining and I'm sure you'll find someone.

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