2013 July 15 Monday
Egyptian Liberals Recognize They Need Military Protection

Check out this NY Times article: Egyptian Liberals Embrace the Military, Brooking No Dissent. Some liberals in Egypt sound like American liberals who do not want to give up on their myth of liberal universalism.

Many on the left are still locked in a battle of semantics, trying to persuade the world — and perhaps one another — that the overthrow of Mr. Morsi was not a “coup” but a “revolution.” The army merely carried out the popular will, they insist. On Sunday, one private satellite network in Egypt was running commercials of citizen testimonials proclaiming as much.

One does not need to believe in a supernatural religion in order to embrace a faith and act in concert against heretics. Read the article for examples of Egyptian liberal enforcement of doctrine against doubters. It is a hoot. In the last election the Muslim Brotherhood won almost half the vote while Nour (even more religious fundamentalist) won 25%. Given that Copts are 10% of the poopulation that leaves about maybe 15% as the number of liberals who are nominally Muslims but not keen on religious rule.

Democracy in the Middle East unleashes the forces of Muslim religious oppression. The more secular Egyptians have found this out the hard way.

Also in the Gray Lady: Egypt Shows How Political Islam Is at Odds With Democracy by Youssef Rakha. I see a problem with the Op-Ed title: Political Islam is redundant. Also, the (false) implication is that democracy equals liberal democracy. Er, no.

Most liberals in America can not imagine America's population changing so much that it will cease to support freedom and non-corrupt government and rule of law. They are being very foolish.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2013 July 15 10:02 PM 

upyernoz said at July 16, 2013 6:26 AM:

"In the last election the Muslim Brotherhood won almost half the vote while Nour (even more religious fundamentalist) won 25%. Given that Copts are 10% of the poopulation that leaves about maybe 15% as the number of liberals who are nominally Muslims but not keen on religious rule."

your numbers are not that accurate. The "last election" is the 2012 Egyptian presidential election. In that contest, Morsi, the MB candidate got 24.78% in the first round of voting. Ahmed Shafik, the military's candidate (and arguably a Mubarak holdover) came in second with 23.66%. The Dignity party (a secular Nassarite party) came in third with 20.72%. After that came Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh, a "liberal Islamist" who ran as an independent, with 17.47%, and Amr Moussa, a professional diplomat with solid secular credentials who also ran as an independent and garnered 11.13% of the vote. (After that there are a bunch of other candidates, none of whom got more than 1.01%). So by my count that's over 55% of a secular vote among the electorate in the first round of presidential voting. Of course, only Morsi and Shafik made it to round two, but that was pretty close: 51.73% to 48.27%. In any case, the Nour party specifically and the more radical than MB candidates were did not garner a significant number of votes in the last Egyptian election.

The article you are citing is probably referring to the last Parliamentary elections that took place between 2011 and 2012. In that case the Islamist Block did get 27.8% of the vote (which translated to 25% of the seats). The IB was an alliance of three Islamists groups, including the Nour party, but also the Authenticity party, which is another Salafi party, as well as the non-Salafi (although Islamist) al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya. The Muslim Brotherhood likewise did not run in the parliamentary election on its own. Instead, it ran under the banner of the Democratic Alliance, which was an alliance of 11 political parties. The MB was by far the biggest party in the Democratic Alliance. But some of the others were quite secular, like the Ghad al-Thowra party and the Democratic Generation Party. The Democratic Alliance won the most votes in the parliamentary election with a combined total of 37.5%, and that translated to almost half of the seats in parliament.

The American media tended to glaze over those details and the Democratic Alliance was viewed as simply a proxy for the Muslim Brotherhood, it's 37.5% of the vote turned into 50% because that's the number of seats they got. Similarly, the Islamist Block just became the Nour party in the American media, because that's the only more-radical-than-the-MB party that anyone has heard of here.

Check it out said at July 17, 2013 11:35 AM:

For every cowardly nation there's always a dictator. Any formerly brave nation that goes to sleep on its glories, riches and gained comfort, becomes a cowardly nation, a nation of lazy petite bourgeoisie.

The Dude said at July 18, 2013 10:45 AM:

Thanks for the stats on fundamentalist voters. Not surprising given that 83% of Egyptians polled by Pew after the revolution were in favor of death for Muslim apostates. I do wish the leaders of the Democratic war machine could be honest about this. I know they must have some reason for invading all these ME countries. If they would only be honest and tell us how it will benefit America I expect most folks would go along with it.

Is it cheaper oil? Ok. I'll bite. How much cheaper?

Is it to guarantee US control of oil pipelines through Afghanistan? Maybe. How much cheaper will my gasoline be?

If only Obama and Hillary eould be strwight about it I might consider additional wars. But they have to be straight with us.

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