2013 June 15 Saturday
Obama, Syria, Israel

What I do not get: Do the Israeli leaders or Israel's supporters in America think an Islamist Sunni government in Damascus would be less a threat to Israel than Assad's minority Alwawite/Shia regime? If so, why? What is in for Israel that a shift toward supporting Sunnis in Syria is not opposed by one of America's most powerful factions on the subject of America's policies toward the Middle East?

Are democratically elected theocracies less a threat to Israel or more a threat? They seem like more a threat to me. Am I missing something?

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2013 June 15 09:39 PM 


Comments
Gary said at June 15, 2013 9:57 PM:

Why don't you read what neocons with close ties to Israel say?

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/5016/full


"Those in both parties who argue for intervention in Syria (as I have for two years) do not do so primarily because we favour free elections there, but precisely because we thought it in America's interests to bring down a key part of Iran's and Hezbollah's defence perimeter, and because we feared the growing arrival of jihadis in Syria to fight what they viewed as Sunni battles. That conclusion could be reached without the slightest reference to democracy in a future Syria or even to a humanitarian crisis so large that, by now, it threatens stability in Jordan — whose stability is an American "interest"."

Randall Parker said at June 15, 2013 10:02 PM:

Syria is not part of Iran's defense perimeter. They do not share a common border.

Sam said at June 15, 2013 10:27 PM:

What your missing is the Israelis are idiots. They, I presume, believe that they are the all ruling uber genius master manipulators and will keep each tribe in Syria, Iraq, etc... forever at each others throats. This will work brilliantly until... it doesn't. Then they will be in deep s**t. This has also worked in the USA but I'm not so sure it will work forever. People tire of political correctness and using our troops as Israeli Janissaries. They seem to be doubling down on every gamble. 911 fading... then more false flags. I'm not so sure about the latest so called terrorism events but I know that building #7 didn't just fall down at the speed of a dropped rock from a few fires and damage to the rear of the structure. I know a few of you here must have read a little sci-fi when you were younger. They remind me of the Kzin. Full of arrogance, pounce first, figure out what to do later.

The Israelis are supposed to be smart but one the last things a smart person would do is to box themselves in. They have little maneuvering room if Europe or the US decides, enough. If anything goes wrong at all they're screwed. When this happens all the ill will they've created around the world will doom them.

They think their next move is to China but I read that one of the largest selling books in China is the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". HA HA. The Chinese have been watching them and have none of the psychological traits that Kevin MacDonald has characterized as causing the Europeans to lose so badly to the Jews.

I'm come to believe that the Jews are a tribe of sociopaths. No not all of them but a vastly larger percentage than the general population. Their need to always come out on top. Even if it causes them ill will later. Adventure seeking. Truly over the top lies that they repeat even when caught. Involvement with businesses and situations of low morality. Impervious to criticism. I have a friend whose Wife's father is a sociopath. He acts just like this. A monstrous person.

The future will be very difficult for the Jews. If I were in charge of Homeland Security I would be looking for a "12 monkeys" attack by the Jews when they lose it.

Big Nick Digger said at June 16, 2013 6:31 AM:

Didn't the Israelis initially fund/advance/support Hizbollah as a counterweight to the PLO back when Hizbollah seemed like a dinky fundie gang that would attack Arafat?

Hizbollah was going to challenge the PLO and Arafat in their original plan, thereby eternally dividing the more Western PLO (lots of educated folks and Christians) from the restive but disorganized ignorant Muslims, which the Israelis figured would be easier for them to manage.

Sort of like the insertion of tens of millions of Mexican "illegal infiltrators" into the USA. Classic Divide and Manage (if not Conquer).

Big Nick Digger said at June 16, 2013 6:33 AM:

Didn't the Israelis initially fund/advance/support Hizbollah as a counterweight to the PLO back when Hizbollah seemed like a dinky fundie gang that would attack Arafat?

Hizbollah was going to challenge the PLO and Arafat in their original plan, thereby eternally dividing the more Western PLO (lots of educated folks and Christians) from the restive but disorganized ignorant Muslims, which the Israelis figured would be easier for them to manage.

Sort of like the insertion of tens of millions of Mexican "illegal infiltrators" into the USA. Classic Divide and Manage (if not Conquer).

Tom said at June 16, 2013 7:40 AM:

Randall,

Are you stupid or something?

Syria is allied with Iran and borders Israel. It is part of Iran's defense against Israel.

Florida resident said at June 16, 2013 10:11 AM:

I tend to agree with Sam (June 15, 2013 10:27 PM).

This reminds me a story,
which I heard from a friend, immigrant from Russia.
-
In 1937 Stalin performed a great purge of administrative cadres,
including, in particular, diplomats in the Foreign Service.
Majority of diplomats were replaced by
"working class party cadres".
The sad fate of previous generation of USSR's diplomats
is _not_ the subject of the following story.
-
In 1945 Russian troops stormed and occupied Berlin,
and found the daily personal journal of Ribbentrop, Foreign Minister of Germany.
Entry of 1938:
“New Ambassador from Russia just arrived.
He pretends to be complete idiot.
But we will not be cheated by his pretense to be a fool.”
-
Could it be that we ascribe to our allies
(just like Ribbentrop did to his enemies)
more wisdom than they actually demonstrate ?

map said at June 16, 2013 2:24 PM:

No, there is no grand global chess game. Obama and other liberals believe that the borders of Syria and other Middle Eastern countries are completely artificial, colonialist-created border. To Obama, the right thing to do is to give them representative democracy so that they can re-establish their natural Islamic order.

Idiot neocons are the ones that think representative democracy will result in Islam becoming more Western.

Israel is caught between a rock and a hard place.

Tyler said at June 16, 2013 3:22 PM:

map,

That's not what neocons with close ties to Israel think.

Read what kikes like Elliot Abrams say:

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/5016/full

"Those in both parties who argue for intervention in Syria (as I have for two years) do not do so primarily because we favour free elections there, but precisely because we thought it in America's interests to bring down a key part of Iran's and Hezbollah's defence perimeter, and because we feared the growing arrival of jihadis in Syria to fight what they viewed as Sunni battles. That conclusion could be reached without the slightest reference to democracy in a future Syria or even to a humanitarian crisis so large that, by now, it threatens stability in Jordan — whose stability is an American "interest"."

Randall Parker said at June 16, 2013 7:14 PM:

Tom,

I would think you are not stupid if you explained how Iran's borders are safer from Israel because an Alawite-run Syria borders Israel. Explain the mechanism or scenario against Iran that is prevented by Assad ruling Syria.

Tyler,

I do not get why Eliot Abrams wanted to overthrow Assad 2 years ago. Does he think a Sunni Islamist government in Damascus will be friendlier to Israel than Assad? Has Egypt become more favorably disposed toward Israel now that the Muslim Brotherhood has power there?

Nick,

Yes, there was a time when the Israelis strategists thought the religious Muslims were a useful lever against the secular nationalists.

Tom said at June 16, 2013 8:36 PM:

Randall,

Are you stupid?

Syria is an ally of Iran. It also enables access to another ally, Hezbollah.

A pro-Iranian Syria affects Israel's willingness to attack Iran since an attack on Iran will be met with attacks by Syria and Hezbollah and civilian casualties.

A Syria that is not allied with Iran makes Israeli aggression against Iran much less costly for Israel.

Sam said at June 16, 2013 9:52 PM:

Tom's statement is probably what the Israelis think. In fact their whole policy is a Rube Goldbergian mental masturbation that's doomed to fail due to the "things not seen" that can't be calculated. Their real problem is this. Do the Muslim Shias and Sunnis hate each other more than they hate the Jews. As Randall pointed out, it's not working out so well in Egypt. Yes they may patch up some kind of policy that appears to work but the long term trend is negative. They're almost ready to decamp from the US. They had a study conference... I believe a year or two ago... to study if moving to China or India was a good idea. I bet neither one of these societies want them. They've alienated every one in the middle east. The Russians don't want them. The Europeans are slowly rejecting them. They're what we say is ,"In a bad place". If it were not for media ownership and blackmail in the US and Europe they would be thrown out of the country.

Zamman said at June 17, 2013 11:53 AM:

Randall wrote:>"Am I missing something?"

Quite a lot, I think.

Randall, the purpose of war and conflict today is not to be won, but to be sustained. It's big business, my friend. Somebody is actually making profit out of all that chaos worldwide. All you have to do is ask yourself "who?" It doesn't matter if it's Suni or Shia, Palesinian, Lebanese or Egyptian. The purpose is to be fighting against anybody all the time. Tell me, do you remember a time when Israel wasn't at war with somebody? Never. You still think in terms of countries and nations, That's all nonsense. It's Exxon and Texaco, Coca-Cola and Pepsico, Bristol-Myers and Bayer and Monsanto, Ford and Chrysler, Bank of America and Citibank, ATT and AT&T.

Roger Waters sings it, "Oh can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pound shillings and pence"

What? Did you think there were still idiologies in world politics? Do you actually think national anthems and flags really mean anything in a world run by big business?? No, they don't. They really don't.

When Reps and Dems sit at their desks, do you think they talk about how to stay on track with their "vision", "mission" or "idiology"? No, no, no, they pull out their charts and calculators and figure out how to make a bigger profit, how to get a bigger slice of the pie.

Matt@occidentalism.org said at June 19, 2013 4:43 AM:

Perhaps the plan is to create dysfunctional medieval theocratic states are more concerned with internal control than threatening Israel.

Failed states cannot do much.

Check it out said at June 21, 2013 2:34 PM:

The U.S. is already a heavily indoctrinated theocratic state: swearing hand on Bible for addressing legal issues, belief in the "divine providence" since the time of the Pilgrims because they didn't starve", "one nation under God", and crap like that. So funny.


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