2013 March 09 Saturday
Women Miss Their Locked-Up Criminal Men
While a sociology professor at Yale is surprised by how much wives and girlfriends of incarcerated thugs get bummed out by the separation from their thug men the results are consistent with a realistic view of humanl nature.
ďWhen we think about the men who spend time behind bars, a whole host of images spring to mind, few of which are positive, and almost none of which involve their families,Ē notes Wildeman. ďAnd when their families do come to mind, moreover, the images are almost uniformly negative: a mother disappointed in her wayward son; a lover relieved to be rid a partner who has long struggled with addiction and been prone to violence; a daughter who learned of her fatherís incarceration weeks after the fact because the ties between them have grown weak as his broken promises mount.Ē
While these images may ring true to many, says Wildeman, they are ó at least for the most part ó inaccurate.
Liberal academics lack basic intuitive understanding of the left half of the bell curve, whether the x axis is measuring IQ, crime, or other ways in which people are dysfunctional or parasitic. Their results should not be a surprise.
When their alpha thug man gets locked up women get depressed. They are deprived of that dominant jerk alpha.
In their study, Wildeman and his collaborators found that mothers of the children of men in prison were most likely to be affected by the fathersí incarceration. ďAlthough many would assume that relief would be the dominant response to having the fathers of their children ó many of whom had turned out to be disappointing partners and fathers ó locked up, exactly the opposite is the case,Ē says Wildeman.
In fact, for most of these women, there is upwards of a 25 percent increase in their risk of being depressed and a comparably substantial decline in their happiness, note the researchers.
Given a proper frame of mind these results become expected. To help you reframe away from the intellectually bankrupt conventional feminist liberal wisdom here are some Heartiste posts on the theme of women digging criminals and other bad boys. A sampler for your consideration: Chicks Dig Jerks: Prison Tryst Edition, Chicks Dig Serial Killers, Chicks Dig Jerks: Norwegian Terrorist Gets Love Letters In Jail, and More Scientific Evidence That Chicks Dig Jerks.
Heartiste on the sad plight of the beta males who actually make society function:
women have to *deny* their sexual essences to choose beta males as romantic partners. I'm sure all those beta males feel lucky to be the logical choice of women, instead of the love choice of women.
The real tragedy here is that criminals have more kids than other men. Criminality is being selected for. The proper response to that is not a sociology study by Ivy League professors about depressed women left behind. We need fewer babies from thugs and their thug-loving women.
By Randall Parker at 2013 March 09 09:30 PM
Coincidentally, I just, a few hours ago, sent this along to a feminist particularly interested in general causes of sexual abuse:
Addressing sexual abuse generally I think the phenomenon of male on male rape in prisons, despite work by Human Rights Watch on US prisons and resulting legislation, has left a virtually unrecognized scar on the culture that gender studies in particular should be more conscious of. Specifically in civilization, which is a very recent innovation in human society, physical protection is afforded by the government. When men and women are in sexual relationships, primitive parts of the nervous system are activated that bypass conscious awareness. The unconscious subtext of every relationship is that the woman is under the protection of the government. Since the primitive brain structures have no model for governments, dominance instincts are triggered involving a three-way relationship: Man, Woman and Government as alpha male. Even in the absence of an unconscious aura of fear regarding sexual sadism resulting from government intervention, this throws a monkey-wrench into deep brain structures. Add to this malfunctioning machinery the unconscious awareness of government-imposed sexual sadism in the form of prisoner gang rape -- particularly with an ethnic dimension so often characterizing the reality of prisons as documented by HRW -- and the results are catastrophic, not just for prisoners but for all who experience governmental authority as a presence in their sexual relations.
Meh, I was talking to a girl online the other night and she said she dreaded riding Greyhound buses 'cause they're used to transport prisoners. Women like smart guys too, and I think that's established just as well if not better scientifically than the stuff about women liking jerks. Women are really hard on dumb guys... ever seen an OKCupid profile that says "I ignore messages with poor grammar" or similar?
The whole alpha/beta thing is a myth. Humans are one of the most egalitarian species there are. The only reason self-professed "betas" are awkward around women is because they watch too much porn: http://www.reuniting.info/cowardly_lion_masturbating_too_much
Think about it: was there any of this alpha/beta nonsense in the free love days of the 60s? "Beta"-ness is just a product of watching too much porn.
Both you and Randall are correct. Some women like alpha male jerks. Others do not. Its not all one way or another. However, Randall's point about lefty academic being ignorant of basic socio-biological instincts is very true. The left is unwilling to entertain any possibility of variance in human character and ability.
As for the 1960's free love thing: It certainly did not last long, 2, maybe 3 years, at most. This alone should tell you that it was unsustainable in a socio-biological sense. Perhaps you should be curious about why it did not last long.
John, your theory is wrong although it is, in part, proximately correct. Porn is one of a wide array of addictions that distract us from the fundamental conflicts arising from reducing humans to eusocial parts of civilization. Eusociality is inherently subversive to natural sex.
"Since the primitive brain structures have no model for governments, dominance instincts are triggered involving a three-way relationship: Man, Woman and Government as alpha male."
Then why do these women miss their locked-up criminal men? It's the government that's locking up these men, so if the government is the alpha male, shouldn't these women love the government and be against these locked-up criminal men?
Perhaps we should re-institute the gallows and other forms of execution for those incarcerated for violent offenses.
That would, over a few generations, reduce the frequency of genes that predisposed people towards thuggish violence. That is how the Chinese did it, although I guess it took them a couple of thousand years to get there.
If you sterilized violent criminals instead of executing them, you might also reduce the fertility of women who are attracted to such anti-social types.
If you want men to be better boyfriends, have them get "pegged":
"Want to make straight men better in bed ó and better feminist allies? The path may be simple: fuck them up the ass. According to one brand new book, the path to making men more compassionate, appreciative and playful may be straight through their butts.
In The Ultimate Guide to Prostate Pleasure: Erotic Exploration for Men and Their Partners, Charlie Glickman and Aislinn Emirzian make the case that straight "men who get into anal penetration are among the most secure in their masculinity: because they've examined themselves, faced their fears." Despite the title of the book, the authors make the case that the payoff for prostate play ó specifically by a woman using a dildo or other toy ó isn't just pleasure. It's liberation from the masculine straitjacket, with happy consequences that extend well outside the bedroom."
"How Pegging Can Help Save The World"
"Itís a cliche that before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, but thatís because thereís a lot of truth to that statement. After all, once youíve experienced something from another personís perspective, itís much easier to imagine what itís like for them. Thatís one reason why I think pegging can go a long way toward improving things. Pegging is the term for when women use dildos and strap-on harnesses with male partners. (Is there a different term when people of other genders use strap-ons with male partners?) And while the main reason people do it is because itís lots of fun, I think thereís an added benefit that lots of folks donít know about."
"If you sterilized violent criminals instead of executing them, you might also reduce the fertility of women who are attracted to such anti-social types."
Well proceding that way can only be conceived by shallow minds. Instead of proposing lazy-mind "solutions" we should remember that justice nowadays -in contrast to medieval justice- is not about vengance or pragmatic finalist "solutions" as an attempt to put an end with all those we consider undesirable by our subjective standards. Justice nowadays is about readaptation and reinsertion into society, and never forgetting that criminals also have rights, even if one became a victim by their hand, and that one would like revenge and torture on that criminal.
Pondering about and researching into what produces violent criminals is a more honest and less lazy way to procede. 95% of all people in prisons today are there due to some monetary-related crime or drug abuse,and drug abuse is a dissorder, not a crime. In an economic and social system which actually worked for the people, there would be no criminals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w -at 2:04:30 to 2:09:30- It'd be good to watch it all though, but you probably won't have the time. It's a great video.
"We need fewer babies from thugs and their thug-loving women."
We need less blacks.
Check it out said at March 11, 2013 5:32 PM:
Very, very stupid comment...
In an economic and social system which actually worked for the people, there would be no criminals
Yeah, it's society's fault that a bunch of black thugs kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome. Because in a society which gives them economic and social benefits vastly greater than any country in sub-saharan Africa, it's still not working for them.
There are some things so absurd, years of education are required to believe them. Your post is an example.
"In an economic and social system which actually worked for the people, there would be no criminals"
No matter what economic or social system you devise there will always be people ready to cheat, defraud, or engage in immoral conduct to gain an advantage. That is how nature and evolution works. In a system of doves there will always be hawks. The best you can hope to achieve is to minimise crime, never eliminate it.
"nstead of proposing lazy-mind "solutions" we should remember that justice nowadays -in contrast to medieval justice- is not about vengance or pragmatic finalist "solutions" as an attempt to put an end with all those we consider undesirable by our subjective standards. Justice nowadays is about readaptation and reinsertion into society, and never forgetting that criminals also have rights, even if one became a victim by their hand, and that one would like revenge and torture on that criminal."
What about the harm done to the social fabric by treating rapists and murderers as if their the victim and not the people they raped or murdered. Justice and its satisfaction are qualities of the human mind and if you create policies that make so that amongst the people justice isn't satisfied, than those people may lose faith in the system and attempt to replace/overthrow it. Watch the film "Law Abiding Citizen" for an entertaining elucidation of what I'm talking about.
RE said at March 11, 2013 7:00 PM:
Nothing at all. Oh yeah, he/she said we needed less blacks. Whew! Anyway, that's really idiotic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy6La4oHGYk
"Yeah, it's society's fault that a bunch of black thugs kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome."
Well Enggie-Poo maybe it is, maybe it's not, but I never said anything as stupid as your suggestions, so you can cut down on the sarcasm. Did you even watch the link I suggested? That's what I thought. Once again you're lazy ass wasn't capable of even that. At least I explained what justice IS NOT, while you come up with lazy-mind "solutions" that can only come from a shallow, simplistic and even childish mind, like yours. You've missed the Enlightenment, and I'm sure you're no lawyer or jurist. No. I believe that all your education comes from Hollywood films, Barney and videogames. Sorry, but what one utters really shows what one knows and understands.
By the way smarty pants, did you hear what happened in Joliet Illinois where 2 white boys and 2 white girls killed 2 black boys because the girls wanted to try sex with corpses? Did you?
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy6La4oHGYk
What do you say to that? Because, it's real, you know; it really happened, so take a look Enggie.
Oh sorry, I forgot you're just too lazy minded to even look at the news.
In your reply, please include at least a full coherent thought, please.
"No matter what economic or social system you devise there will always be people ready to cheat, defraud, or engage in immoral conduct to gain an advantage"
I watched "Law Abiding Citizen" that so much seemed to have impressed you, and yes, it is another nice and entertaining film, so the same of what I wrote to Engineer-Poet goes extensive to you also. You've got all your education from Hollywood films, Barney and videogames.
Therefore and since I know you and Enggie-Poet don't read, I'll ask again: Did you watch the video I suggested? Are you going to watch it? At least the short 5 miutes, so you won't have to think so much? Or are you going to continue clinging to your lazy ass ideas and comfortably continue to believe that you know something about law and justice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w -at 2:04:30 to 2:09:30-
Check it out, move to Detroit. It'll do you some good.
I second the motion for Check it out to move to Detoilet. He can aspire to come to an end like Jacob Kudla and Jourdan Bobbish did last summer, or Ann Walenta, Jason Befort, Brad Heyka, Aaron Sander and Heather Muller of Wichita... to name just two sets of victims of two sets of Black racist murderers. There are many, many more.
He found one set of White thrill-killers who targeted Blacks. I'll bet he can't find a second incident this century.
Voltaire used to say, "I disagree with what you say, but I will always defend the right that you have to say it". In the same way, I disagree with what criminals do, but I will always defend the right they have to their integrity as citizens and humans.
I don't agree with sterilization or any other form of punishment as Engineer Poet or RE believe. Criminals should be separated from society so we all can be safe or at least feel safer.
On the other hand, I don't see the Zeitgeist Moving Forward movement very feasable soon, so I think Check it Out is a little naive, but I also think RE and Engineer Poet could probably come up with deeper thoughts themselves, instead of asking anybody here to move anywhere like Detoilet, whatever that means, or pressume on how anybody can aspire to come to an end.
By the way, here's two incidents of white killer who targeted black, both this century.
I think I could go on with a long list. I will not mention KKK of which there hasn't been much this century, but then again this century is only around 12 years old. I'm ready to bet we will see a lot more white thrill-killers who target blacks in this century. Don't you think EP?
Zamman, you should go to Detroit as well. Maybe Birmingham, AL too. And Camden, NJ. All will be part of your learning experience.
That page is hilarious. It has a picture of the 13-yr-old Trayvon Martin at the top (not the gold-grilled thug of 2012 with a matching shot of George Zimmerman's cut and bloody head), and goes on about blacks killed in encounters with police (where significant wrongdoing on the part of the "victim" is likely and can be assumed). There is exactly ONE murder on that page, and a couple accidents; everything else is justifiable homicide.
That's the very same crime. I half-expected someone to link Jacob England, which would just prove my point: his father was killed by a Black man, and he's not White but Native American.
You'll have to go back a long time before you find a White-on-Black equivalent of the Autumn Pasquale murder (which has inspired no reprisals, no riots, no nothing). Aggregate Black behavior is truly outrageous, as is the fact that White society lets them get away with it.
Detoilet?? ha, ha, ha, right. Ok; moving on, Engie-Poo, I see you have only insults -which is all anybody of your mental midgetry can produce-. It seems to me that you're too emotional to be past your teenage years yet. Please get back to me when you have finished high school and have acquired some basic knowledge of the world around you or at least a halfways mature opinion. Meanwhile you can go do---- yourse-----homework, or read the latest issue of your Superman comic where you can continue enriching your knowledge of Social Science.
"Detoilet" wow, that's deep! Are you kind of necro? or queer? or both? Cause I mean, your nice wishes are so cute, I don't know whether to equally send them back to you or instead send you a ton of tender kisses, honeybunches. I really hope the majority of Americans haven't become that stupid, cause it's starting to get really frightening. RE quickly stood up to obviate how dumb he is, as if he had a spring up his ass. Kisses Enggie-babe.
Yeah okay, whatever you say douchebag. Don't call me, I'll call you.
To Zamman: All great deeds had small beginnings.
Lost the argument and went straight to trash-talk. No surprises there.
The population of Detoilet has gone from over 1.6 million to likely less than 700,000 during my lifetime. I have seen bits of it in snapshots, including a home once occupied by family literally disappear. The dysfunction and corruption there is astounding, with a city councilwoman (wife of the local congressman) and an ex-mayor convicted on corruption charges, an illiterate Board of Education president, and a police force that no longer responds to anything less serious than shots fired. The remaining habitable neighborhoods like Indian Village survive by paying for private security patrols. The mayor wants to remove city services from vast areas which have few or no remaining occupied residences (the same is true of Flint).
Blocks which were once neighborhoods are being sold to tree farmers. Yes, one of the few economic activities that's possible there is growing trees. Trees can't be raped or robbed, don't give a rush if they're killed and there's no market for them at pawn shops, so they are not very likely to be destroyed like the houses and businesses which once existed there.
Since you think so highly of yourself and the possibilities that can be achieved with the denizens of the ghetto, I invite you to go prove yourself correct. Move there, make something of it. Talk is cheap, show us action.
Lost the argument? I've been trying to tell you that your views on justice are like those in countries like Iran or any other muslim country: simply medieval.
I invite YOU to go prove yourself correct. You started talking about sterilization and disregarding the rights criminals also have as citizens -penal law- and as humans, even if you don't like it. I told you that justice IS NOT about vengance or punishment, at least not in countries that call themselves a REPUBLIC. Justice IS about social readaptation so that criminals can eventually stop being criminals and can eventually be reinserted into society. Like I clearly stated: Criminals also have rights, even if somebody has become a victim by their hand and that somebody would like revenge and torture on that criminal. That's all I'm saying and not all the crap you say my words imply . Keep your damn interpretations of my words to yourself.
Now if you don't understand that, it's simply because you are either too dumb or too narcissistic or haven't even read your basic school books. And that's no trash talk. I cannot go on explaining simple things to you, simply because it would take years and I'd just feel too tired of it.
Nevertheless, I can and am willing to take you by the hand on your first steps and tell you what books you can start with:
You can start with "Democracy in America" . Then you can move on to "The Social Contract or Principles of Political Right " and "Discourse on the Origin of Inequality" by Jean Jacques Rousseau, which are high school text books around the world; next, go to "Authority and the Individual", by Bertrand Russell. Once you have read those, you get back to me. Remember that those are only a start.
Modern justice is not about revenge and punishment. Modern justice is not about revenge and punishment. Modern justice is not about revenge and punishment. By modern I don't mean years ago, but CENTURIES ago. Humans have already gotten past medieval "justice" centuries ago, even Hollywood films and Fox shows want to set your mind back there.
Besides Enggie, didn't you read that Women Miss Their Locked-Up Criminal Men??
I bet you they want them back, but not castrated or sterilized.
Who cares what their women want? We want them NOT to perpetuate the behaviors that landed them in jail, either in themselves or in their offspring. Why shouldn't we demand they leave the gene pool?
Besides, clowns like you have been saying for decades that criminality is created by poverty, ignoring all the law-abiding yet poor folks in places like W. Virginia and Maine. (Strangely enough, those law-abiding poor folks are white.) Trillions of dollars have been spent in this failed effort thus far, yet crime stats exploded after the 1960's welfare state expansion and has only slowly dropped (some of which may be fraudulent record-keeping). Let's see you make your case on your own dime. You give your money to a bunch of violent crook-types and see if they become model citizens.
I think what you're worried about is that if society demands that the stupid and violent leave the gene pool, you'll be included.
Yes Engie-Poo, and I'll say it again so you can swallow it whole: criminality is created by poverty. Yes, I know that is so. You finally got it. And no, I don't care for legality, more that I care for justice and ethics, specially if there are thousands of laws worth squat nowadays. Do you get it?
And about including me to "leave the gene pool", well you can go do yourself, since all that Nazi talk is outdated. I don't see where you could possibly fit in the 21st century.
Again and again 'till you get it trough your thik skull: Justice is not about vengance or punishment, nor pragmatic finalist "solutions" to put an end to all those we consider undesirable by our subjective standards.
Come on kid, it's time to stop all that tough teen talk and go do your homework for Monday, before asking dad for the car keys.
I could call you something like "Checked-Out (Mentally)", but unlike you, I'm not a troll. I'm playing to the lurkers and people who'll find this thread with search engines. If you wish to appear childish, it's so much easier to make my case to them.
I'll say it again so you can swallow it whole: criminality is created by poverty. Yes, I know that is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that hurts you. It's what you know that ain't so."
I'll repeat my refutation again so you might finally understand it: the evidence says you're flat wrong, especially the evidence from the Great Society experiment and its ruinous consequences. Dirt-poor Vietnamese immigrants did not create a US crime wave. Low IQ and low impulse control (aggravated by victimology doctrine) lead to criminality. In other words, you are part of the problem.
And about including me to "leave the gene pool", well you can go do yourself, since all that Nazi talk is outdated. I don't see where you could possibly fit in the 21st century.
If I was Han I'd fit just fine in China, which is taking the genetic contribution to genius very seriously
. The Chinese have no use for nonsense like "social justice" or "racial equality". China is buying up Africa and doesn't care about the Africans it pushes aside. Then again, Africans don't care about other Africans either. Guilt is part of what creates European societies, but it's been exploited as a weapon to destroy them.
Justice is not about vengance or punishment
The USA doesn't have a system of justice, it has a legal system. If it cared about justice, the thousands upon thousands of White victims of Black assailants and robbers would receive checks paid by the labor of the criminals until they were made whole. The chances of that happening are slim and none.
The US criminal "justice" system should be devoted to protecting the law-abiding public. If that means using its involvement with individuals to remove alleles for low IQ, low impulse control and propensity to violence from the gene pool, it should do it.
Engineer-Poet said at March 15, 2013 5:38 PM:
You're wasting your time. He doesn't have a clue and will never get one.
That's fine. The more clueless he looks, the more readers he'll drive away from his POV.
" I've been trying to tell you that your views on justice are like those in countries like Iran or any other muslim country: simply medieval."
Muslims countries and sharia law are actually pretty developed and 'civilized' when it comes to criminal law: as long as you pay the right clan member his blood money you can murder people all day and no one will care otherwise.
Actually, despite their willingness to stone young, pretty females for adultery, I don't see a comparative willingness to burn old women for witchcraft or old men for cuckolding young men's wives and forcing them to die in endless jihads with other tribes. And it's not like they encourage homosexuality or anything!
So I'm guessing this is the real reason aging leftists love Islam so much and want more Muslims in Western countries: Old women and a few alpha sheikhs have all the power in society and an endless parade of Totally Not Gay servants dependent on their favor for the necessities of life.
Kill all liberals over 30.
If the women didn't leave these men before they ended up in jail, how is it possible in good faith to insinuate that they should be glad to be rid of them once they land in jail unless they feared for their lives if they left/kicked the guy out? Obviously they wanted these guys around because they had the guys around. The premises here are really stupid. The good news is, betas (as measured by number of lifetime sexual partners) are clearly having more children than alphas are.
"Muslims countries and sharia law are actually pretty developed and 'civilized' when it comes to criminal law: as long as you pay the right clan member his blood money you can murder people all day and no one will care otherwise."
No. Under sharia law, if you are found guilty of murder, the victim's family can choose the punishment. They can choose to have you executed, or they can choose to accept blood money instead. If they choose to accept bloody money and not have you executed, you would still go to prison for other offenses that the murder entailed i.e. for things like "disturbing the peace".
"Actually, despite their willingness to stone young, pretty females for adultery, I don't see a comparative willingness to burn old women for witchcraft or old men for cuckolding young men's wives and forcing them to die in endless jihads with other tribes. And it's not like they encourage homosexuality or anything!"
Adultery, fornication, and sodomy are crimes under sharia law. A man can be forgiven for killing his spouse caught in the act of adultery. And there are limits to polygyny in Islam.
Marriage and reproductive rates under Islam don't appear to be more skewed than they are in contemporary Western society.
I think George needs a new sarcasm detector, his old one's broken.