2012 June 25 Monday
Islam For The Nostalgic?

Gavin McInnes says Islam is so far behind us that news out of Islamic countries makes him feel nostalgic.

Every time Islam pokes its head out of its towel, I get nostalgic. Oh, women in Egypt were sexually assaulted for protesting sexual assault last week? Ahh, that takes me back to the halcyon days of the Wild West. Pardon? Did you say a Muslim man screamed, “God is great!” before throwing his wife’s head out the window in Berlin earlier this month? Ho ho, that takes me back hundreds of years to the old witch hunts in that fun little college party town called Salem. What’s that? Homosexuality is still a capital offense in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, northern Nigeria, North Sudan, and Yemen? Ah, sweet old 16th-century England. When I was told yet another woman was stoned to death in the Sudan a fortnight ago, I was catapulted back to the way we were in the 4th century.

I think we need to keep Muslims in the 50+ Muslim countries in order to keep the past physically distant from us today. They can then decide at their leisure whether go through enough social and political development that they cease to embrace ideas for societal organization that are obviously anathema to most Westerners. Such is the poverty of multiculturalist discourse that even though I'm stating the obvious you will find few leftist intellectuals willing to face the fact that a non-Western religion is incompatible with Western societies.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2012 June 25 10:45 PM  Civilizations Clash Of


Comments
Agnostico said at June 26, 2012 3:47 PM:

"I think we need to keep Muslims in the 50+ Muslim countries in order to keep the past physically distant from us today."

We could even go one step beyond and create a country for agnostics and atheists only. And it really can be done. Remember Israel 1948? Why not!

This country could be called "Dogmafreeland" or with a little more imagination "Atheonia", and would not allow anybody with any form of religious belief or dogma to live there. Reason and thought would mainly define this country even if it be located on a few thousand square miles in Alaska, Siberia or Patagonia. Fine, we'll take it!

Agnostico said at June 26, 2012 3:52 PM:

"I think we need to keep Muslims in the 50+ Muslim countries in order to keep the past physically distant from us today."

Absolutely correct. We should also do away with all forms of religion, or at least completely ban them from public life.

Religions should, BY LAW, be safely kept into the realm of personal subjectivity and desire.

Check it Out said at June 27, 2012 2:49 PM:

Maybe we should help bring those backwards stuck-in-the-past countries to wealth and equality instead of forcing them to change and stealing their oil. That only reinforces their religion and other hositle attitudes.

When humans have their basic needs met, religions start to become obsolete. Specially religions based on cruelty.

Mthson said at June 27, 2012 7:55 PM:

Great article. On the other hand, Muslim nations have crime rates that are the envy of the Western world.

Same principle that Singapore figured out but the West can't figure out: real punishment deters crime. Weird.

Europe has opted to receive the worst of both worlds: importing the lower classes of Muslim societies, but not importing the corporeal punishment that keeps crime rates low in the Muslim world.

Batombo said at June 27, 2012 8:54 PM:

"Same principle that Singapore figured out but the West can't figure out: real punishment deters crime. Weird."

Not many negroids about either...

Mthson said at June 27, 2012 10:28 PM:

Batombo,

Yeah, but compare the high crime rates among Muslim youths in Europe compared to in Muslim countries, which use real punishment for crimes. Cultural influences work.

The African-American crime rate was probably reasonable in the US before 1960, which suggests even that population's ultra-high crime rate can be reduced by cultural influence / instinctual desire to avoid real punishment.

As an aside, it appears that the African-American murder rate is 600% higher than the White & Latino rate. Strange; the media told me that was a myth.

The One said at June 28, 2012 6:03 PM:

"Same principle that Singapore figured out but the West can't figure out: real punishment deters crime. Weird."

On the other hand Cuba's crime rate is pretty low. Maybe what works is equality even if it means everyone is poor, but very much the same.

I believe that what people hate even more than poverty is inequality. As the Pink Floyd song goes "with...without, and who denies that's what the fighting's all about"

The One said at June 28, 2012 6:07 PM:

In countries that have set up the death penalty, crime doesn't seem to go down or deter at all.

Engineer-Poet said at June 28, 2012 7:53 PM:
The African-American crime rate was probably reasonable in the US before 1960
No, it was sky-high even in 1958, and I have seen reposts of news items going back to the turn of the 20th century indicating that it wasn't new in 1958.  Crime rate has a strong positive correlation with the NAM population fraction.

The problem may be the culture, but you can't fix a culture when the people in it are too dumb and are present-oriented rather than future-oriented.  It appears that this may cause an inability to foresee consequences and causes a permanent halt at the "preconventional" stage of moral development, and that's not fixable by public policy or even by intense conditioning.

Maybe there was a local optimum for people who reacted rather than thought, exercised dominance through violence and had short fuses.  If so, its place is elsewhere and its time may have passed permanently.

map said at June 29, 2012 12:12 AM:

One -

On the other hand Cuba's crime rate is pretty low. Maybe what works is equality even if it means everyone is poor, but very much the same.

I believe that what people hate even more than poverty is inequality. As the Pink Floyd song goes "with...without, and who denies that's what the fighting's all about"


If people do not fight over money, they will fight over status.

Erik said at June 29, 2012 3:14 PM:

Many contemporary "Western" ideas and values are anathema to many Westerners.

There isn't a poverty of multiculturalist discourse.

There is a poverty of discourse, period.

People like Razib Khan aren't interested in discourse and freedom of discourse any more than multiculturalists are.

Engineer-Poet said at June 29, 2012 3:46 PM:
People like Razib Khan aren't interested in discourse and freedom of discourse any more than multiculturalists are.
That's how it would look to someone who insists that he has a right to his own facts, yes.
Mthson said at July 1, 2012 10:07 PM:

Engineer-Poet: Thanks for the links. That's fascinating to see that it's always been a problem. It's basically been scrubbed from the history books, so the only way to see it is to look at articles from that time period.


The One said: "On the other hand Cuba's crime rate is pretty low. Maybe what works is equality even if it means everyone is poor."

Yes, but 1. Cuba doesn't have any ultra-high-crime minorities, and 2. it's equality can't be created when groups are on different average intellectual trajectories regardless of rearing environment. A mind that values long time horizon and complexity over the id-driven pleasure principle is too important for life in a complex technological society.

Check it out said at July 2, 2012 4:34 PM:

"Yes, but it's impossible to create equality when groups are on different average intellectual trajectories regardless of rearing environment. A mind that works well and values long time horizon is too important for life in a complex technological society."

Why would so many bloggers here always start talking about how much intelligence they have and how little others have, before even addressing the topics!

Check it out said at July 2, 2012 4:43 PM:

"...it's equality can't be created when groups are on different average intellectual trajectories regardless of rearing environment."

What do you mean "it's equality can't be created"? Not knowing the difference between it's and its, really sets a different intellectual trajectory between us.

Mthson said at July 2, 2012 8:40 PM:

Re: Engineer-Poet

Interesting. I still think reprogenetics will (mostly) equalize the IQs and temperaments of ethnic groups by ~2080. When it comes down to the choice, even the most low IQ NAMs will choose to have smarter children, and the government will pay for it. So maybe we're looking at a 50 year decline in society's average IQ during 2010-2060, but after that the decline will reverse.

Even during this 50 year IQ decline, I think things will overall be getting better. Crime rates are less than they were a few decades ago. "Impoverished" NAMs are more contented because they have 21st century miraculous technology like iPhones and addicting pornography and video games. Macrotrends like peak oil might undermine prosperity, but on the other hand, iPhones etc. are getting better and cheaper every year.


Through reprogenetics, African-American women will look like Zoe Saldana, White women will look like Angelina Jolie, Latino women will look like Jessica Alba, and Asian women will look like Ziyi Zhang.

Reprogenetics is unique in the history of humankind because it addresses the actual cause of things.

Peter said at July 3, 2012 1:58 AM:

Cuba doesn't have many high crime minorities? About 60% of their population is black or mulatto, so your technically right in that they are not a minority.

Mthson said at July 3, 2012 7:14 AM:

Peter,

Yes, you're right, Cuba does have a large minority of African descent (65% white, 10% african, and 25% mestizo or mulatto according to Wikipedia), but it's a small, backward island that keeps order through fascism and an extensive, inhumane prison system.

My point still stands that equality can't be created when groups are on different average intellectual trajectories regardless of rearing environment.

Check it Out said at July 3, 2012 6:01 PM:

"Yes, you're right, Cuba does have a large minority of African descent (65% white, 10% african, and 25% mestizo or mulatto according to Wikipedia), but it's a small, backward island that keeps order through fascism and an extensive, inhumane prison system."

Yeah right!! In the Americas, Cuba is the country with the largest percentage of university students enrolled. Cuba is the country with the best medical practice. Cuba is the country with the lowest infant mortality rate; Cuba is the country with the best education, and it's free; really free. Cuba has usually performed higher than any other Latin American country in Olympic games. Cuba's percentage of people put in jail is much, much lower than that of the USA. In fact the USA is the country with the highest percentage -and also number- of prisoners in the world; even more than China. So talk about inhumane prison system, huh? You can always look up the human rights in Cuba.

Finally, Mthson, Cuba is not Fascist; it's Socialist. But that's studied in middle school. Fascism and Socialism are as different as day and night. Mexico is a good example of Fascism. USA is another great example of Fascism. Germany and Italy back in the 1930s, and Spain under Franco. I'll just assume you were stoned when you typed that, so no biggie.

Check it Out said at July 3, 2012 6:06 PM:

But cheer up Mthson. In the end we happen to coincide in this forum so here's a song you may like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UssH6rufHfM

Peter said at July 3, 2012 10:06 PM:

Mthson,

The CIA factbook also corroborates the stats u cite for Cuba's ethnicities. I'm guessing, though, that much of the supposedly 65% "white" is actually mulatto or mestizo of various degrees. People slightly lighter than Obama self describe as "white" in surveys in some of those countries.

Randall Parker said at July 4, 2012 7:29 PM:

Check it Out,

You say (in spite of Gulf Muslim oil state counter-examples):

When humans have their basic needs met, religions start to become obsolete. Specially religions based on cruelty.

So then why hasn't Islam fallen out of favor in Saudi Arabia? The government subsidizes the living standards with oil money. So why are Muslims in Saudi Arabia still Muslims?

Zamman said at July 5, 2012 9:38 AM:

The belief in Capitalism is another form of religion. One that also leads to cruelty. People who believe in it think that it is impossible for humans to live without it.


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