2010 August 12 Thursday
Polytheists And Islam
Jihad Watch points to an excerpt from the Koran that shows what Mohammed said should be done to polytheist non-believers who refuse to submit to Muslim rule and pay a special tax:
When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim, book 019, Number 4294)
This is an example of why I see Islam as incompatible with Western values. There's no relationship with Muslims as between equals. They want to make us subservient. Their religion tells them the natural relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims is that between the ruler and the ruled.
Ground Zero mosque imam Feisal Abdul Rauf had this to say about the 9/11 attacks:
Rauf’s image may be moderate enough to have satisfied the Bush administration, but it is also true that he offered tough analysis following the 9/11 terrorist attacks that is now being used by some to question his allegiances. Just days after the attacks, Rauf said in a television interview that US policies in Muslim countries were “an accessory to the crime” and provided succor to radical Islam.
“In the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA,” he said.
One could argue, as Rauf does, that US involvement in the MIddle East angered Muslims enough to cause them to attack. But the US has intervened all over the world without similar consequences from other religions and cultures. What is different? Muslims are taught by their base text that they are warriors who should resist domination and instead dominate others. The United States is the biggest obstacle in the way of bin Laden's desire to spread Muslim rule. Bin Laden sees the proper relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims as Mohammed did. It is only natural that he should treat us as enemies.
There are a lot of screwed up things in Christianity too, only the Christians don't necessarily follow them. There are a lot of things in the Koran that can foster a peaceful co-existence between the civilizations, only the current crop of extremist muslims don't follow them.
What it really comes down to is this... They have been fed a line that tells them to fight any other civilization no matter what. It may even be an instinct, something genetic, adjusted to propagate their genes.
Philosophies are generally used to justify the actions that people were going to take anyway. I actually learned that first from here.
The trouble is that within a few decades, the Islamic world will acquire the technology to manufacture unlimited quantities of nuclear materials in such a way that these materials will become compact enough to be smuggled piece by piece to Western countries, where it will be possible to assemble powerful hydrogen bombs in safe houses. If not this decade, by 2020 or 2030 this will become very possible, and by 2040 this capability will be guaranteed. Imagine 1,000 hydrogen bombs (90 megatons each) assembled in all major Western cities in the year 2039. Then the ultimatum will be simple: "Either convert or pay the Jizya, but please don't convert so that we can collect the Jizya tax.".
It is impossible to prevent this trend by simply bombing Iran. Technology is propagating fast.
You are overall correct, but right now the extremist Islam is gaining ground, and it is the modern technology that makes this group dangerous. Otherwise the cruelty of the Crusaders is unmatched, but these days there are very few Crusaders.
AMERICA INVITES TERRORISTS BY RAMPANT VISA GIVING;
GOVT. CONTROLLED BY JEWISH OLIGARCHS WHO WANT TO DESTROY USA
This is a great article and very true. But we have a problem with Islamic extremism and terrorism because we let these barbarians in--by giving them visas. 9/11 hijackers and the Christmas terrorist would never have been here, had our corrupt evil govt. not given them visas. The subsequent Iraq and Afghan wars would never had happened if we did not give them visas. The criminal US govt. is still on a visa giving rampage. So who is lobbying for more visas?
The biggest group that promotes this 3rd world war of unchecked 3rd world immigration is the Jewish lobby. It is the most powerful lobby in the US and half of all contributions to Democrats are from the Jewish lobby. One of the lobby's biggest goals is to destroy, decimate and finish America by unleashing 3rd world immigration into the US and Europe, while promoting the exact opposite for Israel. See "Culture of Critique", by Kevin McDonald, reviewed/available on:
Because the Jewish lobby is so powerful (in money and control of the media and the govt, including the Judiciary), most politicians have no choice but to constantly vote and support the lobby's destructionist policies of open borders and the alien invasion, despite vehement public opposition (80% against).
Why? Because Judaists are evil, mentally deranged criminals. They believe they are a special race called "Jews", descended from Middle Eastern/African Torah (OT) patriarchs like Abraham (who was a pimp and sold his wife to an African, therefore, black pharaoh) and were persecuted often, so they believe they must destroy society before it harms them (like Egypt) and control it by inciting conflict, with a divide and conquer strategy, by promoting the alien invasion. Their idea is that with Whites in perennial conflict with Blacks, Christians with Muslims, and men with women, the Judaists' crimes, oppression, exploitation and thefts would hardly seem worth fighting over.
Their Torah describes their God Yahweh as a "bloodthirsty ….. genocidal" (--Dawkins) mentally deranged criminal and the Egyptian Moses as a serial killer and a pedophile. Their Talmud teaches them that they are a special people who have been persecuted by goyim and that all goyim are animals, born to serve their Jewish masters, and all goyim nations beneath them. Because they are God's chosen, it is okay to lie to, cheat, steal from and even kill the goyim. See:
In fact, most Judaists are European Whites whose ancestors were forced to convert to Judaism. See Arthur Koestler, 13th tribe; Dr. Schlomo Sand's book reviewed on:
Also see: www.khazaria.com
Also see "The Fallacy of Biological Judaism", by Robert Pollack:
The Torah is pure fiction ("forgery" --Joseph McCabe, "spurious"--Thomas Paine), as is obvious from page 1. Moses never existed. His myth is based on the African myth of Mises/Sargon. Exodus never happened. See "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho" (Prof. Ze'ev Herzog), "False Testament" on Harper's.
Judging by their content, the vile Torah was fabricated by a gang of mentally-deranged savage barbarian negro criminals. The African setting, names and myths suggest the scribes were blacks/negroes. The adoption of this barbaric criminal devil-worshipping Negro cult by White Europeans is the greatest tragedy of mankind. That is why many Judaists today behave like barbaric criminals, engaged in constant lying, cheating, stealing, bribing the govt. and destroying America by bribing govt. to allow the alien invasion.
The alien invasion is their war on the US and Europe, due to their mental illness and criminal mind caused by their negro criminal cult of Judaism. We need to make them aware that their repulsive Torah is a negroid forgery and teach them to love their own nation and race instead of destroying it. Once they become aware of the truth, they may stop destroying their own nation through the alien invasion.
There is something I don't fully understand: Are you saying that the Jewish lobby is intentionally inviting Muslim extremists to the United States even though this group is obviously an enemy of Israel?
By the way, what you are saying is essentially the same as the white supremacist propaganda, claiming that Jews are helping non-whites immigrate to America and Germany in order to dilute and weaken the Aryan race.
"There are a lot of screwed up things in Christianity too, only the Christians don't necessarily follow them. There are a lot of things in the Koran that can foster a peaceful co-existence between the civilizations, only the current crop of extremist muslims don't follow them."
The peaceful parts of the Koran were from the early days when it was a small sect. When Islam started to gain a lot of followers Mohammed the tolerance ended.
Muslims believe that Mohammed is the greatest man who ever lived and the best role model for people. If you read any account of the last decade of his life you will see a great deal of violence that he led his followers to inflict. Islam is a religion founded by a warrior not a man of peace..
"The United States is the biggest obstacle in the way of bin Laden's desire to spread Muslim rule."
The US is not doing anything to stop Muslims from trying to convert people. Bin Laden wants to assume leadership of the Muslim world before he wants to spread Muslim rule. He sees the US as supporting a corrupt government in his holy land. The US was not attacked by Muslim terrorists before the Marines were to Lebanon. If we left the region they would go back to fighting among themselves.
" If we left the region they would go back to fighting among themselves. "
This might be wishful thinking. For instance, after we leave the region, they will certainly start fighting among themselves, but this time, after their civil war progresses for a few years, it is very possible that an "Alpha" dictator will unite them, a hybrid between Saddam Hussein (organized technocrat-statist) and Osama bin Laden (religious extremist), and this time the result can be much more challenging because the "region" you are talking about contains half the oil reserves of the world if you combine Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq and Iran, and this would allow the new Empire to obtain the necessary resources to build weapons of mass annihilation by 2039, to wage WW III against Europe, when at least 30 % of Europe will be Muslim by then. What is different this time is that there has already been a lot of involuntary hostile interaction between the Islamic civilization and the West, and so the Islamic civil war will not be so inward-looking in the end.
The Ground Zero Mosque thingy. Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "Boob bait for the bubbas."
Wolf-Dog, I suspect he means exactly that. What is good for Jews in Galut (Jews in exile among the goyim) is bad for Israel, and vice-versa. It is good for Jews to live wherever they wish in order to make money and gain power. It is not good for Jewish supremacy to be threatened in Israel. Thus Jews will preach the wonderfulness of diversity in America and never mention diversity in Israel.
The same holds true for all the other ethnic groups colonizing America: Africans, Mexicans, and Muslims, among others. They whine about how racist white Europeans are as they desperately flee their miserable godforsaken homelands. And that's why they all support the Democratic party by 8:1 or 10:1. Paraphrasing a wonderful liberal Jew who was commenting on the eternal race guilt of the German people: Jews (and Muslims, and Mexicans) are all "Obama's willing executioners".
"it is very possible that an "Alpha" dictator will unite them,"
I think the chance of someone uniting Iran and the Arabs is minimal. Have they ever been united?
"to obtain the necessary resources to build weapons of mass annihilation by 2039, to wage WW III against Europe,"
If Pakistan can get the bomb I don't see how you can stop oil rich countries from getting it. Why would they fight Europe when it is one of their biggest customers and does not support Israel?
What I think is incredibly dumb about US policies toward the Muslims is the combination of having military forces occupy and kill people in their lands and at the same time letting them immigrate to the US. We did not let have Japs and Germans immigrate while we were bombing them in WWII. This only makes sense if you believe Bush's line that Islam is a religion of peace and only a few "evil doers" have high jacked Islam and are hostile to the US. I think Islam is a warrior religion and will never accept Christian troops permanently stationed in their countries.
>Have they ever been united?
I don't know if those two specific groups have ever been united, but the muslims were pretty cohesive for hundreds of years under the Ottoman Empire. Granted they were a VERY different culture at that time, made up of a very different people and were far more civilized in many metrics than even the west today.
That's why what's happened in the middle east is such a tragedy. These people freakin' preserved western learning through the dark ages. Why is this happening to them?
"muslims were pretty cohesive for hundreds of years under the Ottoman Empire."
The Ottomans were Turks and never controlled Iran.
"The US was not attacked by Muslim terrorists before the Marines were to Lebanon."
The Marines were created to fight Muslims who were terrorizing US shipping.
"The Marines were created to fight Muslims who were terrorizing US shipping."
The Marines were created to fight pirates. Pirates, who are motivated by money, are not the same as terrorists like Bin Laden.
"The Marines were created to fight pirates."
Who "just happened" to be based in Tripoli.
"Pirates, who are motivated by money, are not the same as terrorists like Bin Laden."
During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.
In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
Not the same?
Islam was founded by a warrior who built an empire by conquest. Its base text is full of instructions to conquer and kill non-believers.
Christianity was founded by a guy who said "render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's" and he never tried to mount an insurrection.
These religions are very very different in their political effects.
Christianity became more martial when warrior tribes conquered the Christian Roman Empire and these warrior tribes converted to Christianity. It wasn't martial at the outset and its warrior phase has come and gone. It was easier for Christianity to become like warm puppies because the New Testament encourages warm puppy behavior.
So these religions are not equivalent.
But thanks for playing.
Islam is totally unique among major religions in that it doesn't want equality but total supremacy, and can never be satisfied until it rules every territory where Muslims live. As such it's on a collision course with the West and all the values it holds dear. To see how deep Islam's rabbit hole goes study it's complete history free with the Historyscoper at your own pace at http://go.to/islamhistory
Keep up on the daily world news of Islam v. West with free links from the Historyscoper:
"Not the same?"
The pirates did not attack US ships during years when the government gave them money as "tribute". I have never heard of Bin Laden asking for tribute money.
>These religions are very very different in their political effects.
Even so, I don't believe a full-scale war is absolutely inevitable. Right now, there is nothing but benefit for them in their conquest-centered behavior. However, that can change.
Right now, the average Muslim is facing easy targets, which can be easily picked off to gain status in and for their community. (status drives almost everything humans do) When that's no longer the case, when battling the west will likely lead to either death with no consequence for the adversary, or deportation back to their shithole home countries, we'll see them become better world citizens. And they'll focus in their religious learning more on the peaceful parts of their religion, because it's what they need to do anyway. The warmongering calls for genocide will be conveniently forgotten.
Rationalization is likely a human being's strongest brain function. You'd be amazed how quickly and totally someone can change their tune when there's something that they can gain, especially if its survival or reproduction related.
Actually, u cant just cite random hadeeth w/o investigating faults in translation first as Arabic is a complicated language and many Muslim translators today interpret certain words to mean certain things when in actuality they mean completely different things. If u did all that and still find it hard to agree with a hadeeth, remember there r always those hadeeths that Jews fabricated a long time ago still circulating out there. but if u r also sure about the authenticity of a hadeeth after further investigation and still find it disagreeable, remember that there is a sory behind each and every hadeeth. in this case this is a very reliable hadeeth and since i dont know arabic ill assume that it is accurate w/ some deviation from true meaning here and there. Now, Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. it teaches to not fight until fought against first. w/ that in mind i think i remember learning a long time ago that this hadeeth was from when the muslims were given trouble by some polytheist peoples and it was due to the situation that the Prophet Muhammad gave his enemies the three choices listed in the hadeeth.(4giv me if im remembering kind of wrong but it should be pretty accurate because remember, Muslims aren't allowed to fight unless in self defence)if the polythiests had become muslim then obvioulsy they could coexist. if they didnt but agreed to pay the tax they could also coexist. but if they agreed to do neither that meant that they would continue hostilities towards the muslims. i looked it up and jizya is just basically "material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws" and "in return (for paying it), non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the Zakat as obligatory upon Muslim citizens"
if you still dont believe that islam is a religion of tolerance then take a moment to skim this article if u have time...