2008 November 15 Saturday
Some West Bank Israelis Want a Buy-Out
About 40% of the West Bank Jewish settlers (or squatters if you prefer) would leave if offered enough cash for their houses. They do not like living among hostile Palestinians and some even think it is wrong to live there.
There are 280,000 settlers in the West Bank (200,000 more Israeli Jews live in East Jerusalem, also captured in 1967), and the vast majority are firmly committed to staying and oppose a Palestinian state here. But 80,000 of them live beyond the barrier, and surveys indicate that many would leave. If they did, others might follow voluntarily.
“We did a survey three years ago and again last year, and the results were the same,” said Avshalom Vilan, a Parliament member from the left-wing Meretz Party. “Half the settlers beyond the barrier are ideologically motivated and do not want to move. But about 40 percent of them are ready to go for a reasonable price.”
I wonder how they define reasonable price. Enough to buy a comparable house in Israel? Part of the allure of the West Bank in the first place was to get cheaper housing. Or are the houses there selling for less than they paid to get them?
Even if the 40% were given buy-outs I do not think this would lead to a full Israeli withdrawal. If one type of people leave an area that just makes the area more like the type of people who won't leave. The West Bank Israelis will become more ideologically committed and others like them will move to join them.
Pity. The relentless sniping, both physical and political are taking their toll. They sound as disheartened as the white South Africans and Rhodesians did. It isn't really the Arabs that are causing them trouble as the liberal secular Israeli and American Jews who look at them as religious nuts and maniacs. How can you maintain an outpost for your people if they are morally shooting you in the back? I have a lot of respect for the Jews in Israel, very little for liberal Jews living comfy in galus [exile]. As a Jewish commentator said:
"You may call yourself an American, Brit, or Frenchman, but you are not such. You are a Jew, and you do not belong where you are at. The foreign nation where we were banished to was a temporary measure set forth by Hashem [ed:God] as a punishment, they were not given to us as a permanent home. That punishment has come to an end, and we have been called home. The need for exile has ceased to exist."
And the sad thing is that liberal American Jews will backstab their own brethren who go home and try to live in the Holy Land.
Why maintain the West Bank outpost in the first place?
Run the muslims out of the West bank and Gaza. Let their Arab brothers take care of them. Problem solved. If the Israelis hand over the West Bank, the Arabs will demand even more and it will be land in Israel proper.
See what I mean?
Certainly a line should be drawn somewhere between Israel and the Palestinians that says only Jews on one side and only Palestinians on the other. Interleaving them solves nothing. But why draw a line which puts all the Palestinians out of the West Bank? Do the Israeli Jews deserve to have the West Bank?
This is ludicrous: "Do the Israeli Jews deserve to have the West Bank?"
Who the hell deserves any land really? Do white Americans deserve NY? Do Amerinds Deserve North Carolina? Do Blacks Deserve Montana? Do Mexicans deserve Texas? Do Algerians deserve the south of France? do Moroccans deserve the south of Spain? Seriously... this is a complete non-starter.
Do the Jews have serious claims? Yes they do and they are Ethno-Historic, religion not withstanding. There is also the little fact that the "Palestinians" are a fabrication, one formulated by Nasser and the KGB in 1965 to be exact to disenfranchise Jews from the cradle of their civilization. Also, what did the Arabs do with the West Bank prior to Israel? Did they kill and ethnically cleanse Jews, sure they did, like they did the whole ME and North Africa. Did they economically develop the area? Nope. And as a Muslim principal land they cleanse Jew and Christian alike. Arab speaking (among others) Christian population in Israel is growing while it shrank considerably under both Fatah and Hamas.
But the end all is this: The Jews fought and won 3 wars of genocide against them. Loosers tend to cry a lot. Tough luck.
Then if white people do not deserve NY then Jews do not deserve the West Bank? You seemingly can't make up your mind.
If you can't deserve something how can you have a serious claim?
Ethno-Historic: So then do the Poles deserve to take back their land that Stalin took from them? The Poles lived in that land a whole lot more recently than Ashkenazi Jews who left the Middle East a couple thousand years ago.
Economically develop an area: Yes, the Israeli government does pay to build houses in the West Bank. But I do not see them building a lot of factories there.
Christian population in West Bank is shrinking. In fact, Christians are having their land taken from them by Jewish "settlers". I guess the Christians lack an ethno-historic claim to the area, Jesus and the Crusaders notwithstanding.
"Palestinians" a formulation: America is a formulation. Some Federalists pushed the idea. We fought a Civil War to solidify it. Wars often create nationalisms. Nationalism is a pretty new thing throughout the Middle East.
Jonus ranted: "But the end all is this: The Jews fought and won 3 wars of genocide against them. Loosers tend to cry a lot. Tough luck."
Jonus, you're mistaking battles for wars. In the long run Israel will lose the war just based on demographics.
"Then if white people do not deserve NY then Jews do not deserve the West Bank? You seemingly can't make up your mind."
I was responding to your seemingly naive point about who deserves what in international affairs.I'm a firm believer that realpolitik makes the world go not who has the biggest violin. That said, I provided enough of an argument to make "a deserved case" even if it is irrelevant.
"If you can't deserve something how can you have a serious claim?"
Easily, you have fence and a rifle behind it.
"Ethno-Historic: So then do the Poles deserve to take back their land that Stalin took from them? The Poles lived in that land a whole lot more recently than Ashkenazi Jews who left the Middle East a couple thousand years ago."
The Poles absolutely have a case against the Russians. And they should absolutely pursue it, I very much hope my country backs them in the EU. The Germans may counterclaim on Koninsberg and other areas, hense its a bit of a hornets nest.
"Economically develop an area: Yes, the Israeli government does pay to build houses in the West Bank. But I do not see them building a lot of factories there."
They do build factories, Ariel (when I worked as a Kibbutz hand not to far) has a very secular tradition and has manufacturing and agricultural sectors. The Jews introduced modern irrigation into the whole region. Zionism was incidentally responsible in bringing all the Syrians and Egyptians for cheap labor at the turn of the last century. The land could not support a lot of population before industrialization and modern agriculture could make it so. This is a point not lost on Israelis. But this is an aside. Ariel and other places are 1/2 hour drive to the industrial heart-land of Israel.
"Christian population in West Bank is shrinking. In fact, Christians are having their land taken from them by Jewish "settlers". I guess the Christians lack an ethno-historic claim to the area, Jesus and the Crusaders notwithstanding."
Please stop spreading Sabeel lies. They are Christian Dhimmis and spread anti-Semitism as a matter of course. The Jews never took any Christian property en mass, if some families fled during 1948 it was because their leadership told them too... in order to avoid being casualties in the bombing of the Galilee and other places. In the West Bank and Gaza proper all the ethnic cleansing of Christians has been done by Muslims. All the desecration of Christian sites (like the one a few years back of the Church of the Nativity) was done by Muslim Arabs. The Christian community in Israel is growing since the founding of the state. The Armenians in their quarter are pleading with Israel to retain the old city 100%. Any Christian Arab will tell you the same thing in private. Visit the place and ask the people.
""Palestinians" a formulation: America is a formulation. Some Federalists pushed the idea. We fought a Civil War to solidify it. Wars often create nationalisms. Nationalism is a pretty new thing throughout the Middle East."
Apples and Oranges. If you like to support the spawn of the KGB and Arab imperialists be my guest, please don’t sell it as a something that is incidental and commonplace. The creation of "Palestine" was a racist attempt to disenfranchise the Jews from the cradle of their civilization. A project that had it's foundation in both Arabic mythology (Islam's Dar Al Harb) and Modern mid century European racism, the last to my great chagrin.
"Jonus, you're mistaking battles for wars. In the long run Israel will lose the war just based on demographics."
Latest numbers don’t reflect this premonition. They say the same thing about Sweden and France, and the Nederlands, we'll see I guess. And I do realize the difference between wars and battles, and this is one single war, of luddite barbarism against civilization. The Jews, and especially the Zionists, in their particular way stand with Western Civilization, just like the Poles and other civilized people Randall mentions.
The Jews will be in the Middle East and the Holy Land for eternity.
Now they may not have the socialist state of Israel, but they will remain in Israel.
The Old Yishuv was there for two thousand years before the urban secular European Jews living in galus decided to move in and take over.
The Old Yishuv will return when the urban secular European Jews get tired of living in the desert and go back to banking, law, medicine and the professoriate in the galus.
Jonus, the jews that breed aren't the same ones who create economic wealth.
How politically incorrect of you. Yes, you are right though. Ashkenazi Jews are 37% of the Israeli population and the Moroccan Jews and other Middle Eastern Jews are quite a bit less intelligent on average. They are also a lot more criminal and clannish as that link shows.
Culturally Israel has peaked. Of course the US and Europe are in the decline for demographic reasons as well. The West is going down.