2006 May 25 Thursday
Blacks Seen As Most Harmed By Hispanic Immigration

While Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton think Hispanic immigration is a good thing a lot of blacks think their supposed leaders are betraying them. Blacks are aware they are being displaced by Hispanics.

LOS ANGELES – From where Johnny Blair Vaughn sits outside Lucy Florence Coffee House in the heart of Los Angeles's black community, he can feel the temperature rising over immigration.

The biggest reason, says the father of seven, is jobs.

"If you drive across this city, you will see 99 percent of all construction is being done by Hispanics.... You will see no African-American males on these sites, and that is a big change," says Mr. Vaughn, who has worked in construction for two decades. His two oldest boys, in their early 20s, have been turned down so many times for jobs - as framers, roofers, cement layers - that they no longer apply, he says.

I do not want the ranks of black unemployed to rise even higher. As my grandmother used to say, "Idle hands are the devil's workshop".

I think Vernon Briggs gets it right here:

"In this era of mass immigration, no group has benefited less or been harmed more than the African-American population," says Vernon Briggs, a Cornell University professor who researches immigration policy and the American labor force.

A new black coalition has formed to oppose mass illegal immigration.

Black leaders from across the country yesterday decried a guest-worker "amnesty" plan that would legalize millions of illegal aliens and threatened to sue the U.S. government if such legislation is passed.

"We're on the cusp of very critical legislation that centers on immigration -- both legal and illegal," Frank Morris Sr., chairman of Choose Black America, a new coalition of black Americans opposed to illegal entry, told reporters at the National Press Club in Northwest. "African Americans are going to be hurt if this legislation moves forward, [and] we are here to sound the alarm."

Blacks notice they are getting pushed out of some cities.

It just infuriates me that our children's education has to be shortchanged for a subculture that in many instances doesn't want to assimilate," said the Northwest resident, who is in her 60s and has watched the D.C. landscape change for more than 30 years.

"We are being pushed out of the way because there is a push to legalize an illegal act," she said. "I personally know fine educators who are losing their jobs because they can't speak Spanish. Well, in that case, pay them pesos."

This is a familiar pattern. When Hispanics come into an area some businesses and governments discriminate against English-only speaking natives because the employers want to have front line people who speak Spanish and English.

Choose Black America folks think the Hispanic deluge is a disaster for blacks.

Mass illegal immigration has been the single greatest impediment to black advancement in this country over the past 25 years. Blacks, in particular, have lost economic opportunities, seen their kids’ schools flooded with non-English speaking students, and felt the socio-economic damage of illegal immigration more acutely than any other group.

Here is information about some of the Choose Black America founders:

Ted Hayes -- Has worked tirelessly to attract national and international attention to the problem of homelessness in America. Ted is the creator of the Dome Village Community, a prototype shelter-housing facility located in down town Los Angeles. Ted Hayes has delivered his proposals on homelessness to the White House for the creation of a national homeless plan to eradicate homelessness in the United States. Ted has worked with national and international leaders in his effort to end the criminalization of Homeless persons in the United States.

Dr. Rosie Milligan -- In 1990, Dr. Milligan founded a publishing company, Milligan Books, where she has published over 100 new African-American authors in the past five years. Her publishing company is the fastest growing publishing company owned by an African-American female in the nation. Dr. Milligan is an entrepreneur and economic empowerment activist and owner of Professional Business Management Consulting Services - which provides consultation for new and small businesses and staff development training for corporations.

Kevin Fobbs -- Kevin Fobbs has more than 25 years of wide- ranging experience as a public relations consultant, business executive, political advisor, writer, and national lecturer. And is the founder of NuPac, the National Urban Policy Action Council, a civic and citizen action organization that focuses on community empowerment and promotes fiscally responsible compassionate conservative public policies. In addition, Fobbs is the Director for Government and Civic Affairs for Soul Source, a monthly full-color Christian news magazine.

Rev. Jesse Peterson -- Rev. Peterson is the Founder and President of the national non-profit organization BOND, the Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny. He is the author of many books, and is frequently seen on major TV networks such as Fox, CNN, and MSNBC. Reverend Peterson is an advisory board member of Project 21, a national black conservative public policy organization

There is not enough demand for low skilled labor. International trade and automation are both decreasing the demand for manual labor and low skilled labor. In the face of these two trends it is stupid to import even more lower IQ and low skilled people to compete against the tens of millions already here who the labor market already attaches a low value on. This would be obvious enough for our elites to see and acknowledge in their deliberations. But they are all part of a joint lie where thinking true facts about human nature is a thought crime. Their secular religious madness has blinded them to the glaring truth.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2006 May 25 09:56 PM  Immigration Economics

John S Bolton said at May 25, 2006 11:52 PM:

It is stupid, unless increasing conflict between effortlessly representable groups is the goal. If you want power, but can't get anyone to agree with your ideas, even used-up liberal religious ones, you need a group that just sits there and looks dark, or ethnic in some way, and doesn't talk back about who is representing them.
Blacks are staring to talk back on the subject of who represents them, on the subject of mass immigration, and its facilitation by means of official aggression.
They were in no way expected to do this; how could they develop such effrontery, as not to realize that their betters know more on these issues?
To the shock of the left, and the short-term profiteering moderate right (don't anyone say Carlyle), there
are some black leaders who don't see the enhancement of interracial conflict as the sine qua non of power.

Lenny said at May 26, 2006 2:33 AM:

Mass immigration to the US-- low-skilled and even high-skilled (those Indian H1-B visa holders who are killing our tech industry and driving students out of engineering completely)-- is just bad for everybody. I'm infuriated by it, and there's still another way (besides the important ones mentioned here already) that it's literally killing the US as a great power. We already have 300 million people and are dangerously dependent on oil from the Middle East. With 350 million people, as the Senate immigration bill would push up our population by 2025, the US would be trapped in perpetual resource wars, draining our country's treasury still further and ensnaring us in an imperialistic mess. We would also, effectively, be transferring wealth on an enormous scale from the Western Hemisphere to oil-rich states like Bahrain and Russia-- hardly reliable friends for us-- which wouldn't happen if the new immigrants were, for example, to stay in Latin America, the Philippines and India, where they use much less oil.

Lenny said at May 26, 2006 3:34 AM:

Another thing I'll note here, is the historic betrayal that this immigration bill represents.

I say this as a Scotch-Irishman myself, but the reason that the US has become the world's most powerful country, plain and simple, is that it has the most Germanic population of any country in the world. Between the German-Americans themselves who built the USA (George Westinghouse, John D. Rockefeller, William E. Boeing and scores of others)-- 80-90 million German-Americans by last count-- the Dutch, the Scandinavians and of course the Anglo-Saxons, the US is blessed to have a Germanic population of close to 125 million people. With the Germanic work ethic, intelligence, creativity and drive for enterprise, which of course has also had the effect of drawing in many non-Germanics with a similar work ethic to reach great heights of productivity, of course the US is the strongest power in the world. We're the strongest, because we have the highest-quality base of people.

Now, the US is betraying that group of people who worked so hard, so intensively for so many years, to make the USA great in the first place. The current idiots in power are working aggressively to turn Whites in the US in general into a minority.

I look at my son these days, and I fear for his future. White men in the US are already the most hated and resented group, and it's only going to become much worse. If my son stays in the USA, he'll have to deal with being pushed to the back of the line by affirmative action at every level of his education and employment, he'll have to deal with ridiculous rules on everything from sexual harassment to marriage and divorce that stack the deck against him and endanger him with bankruptcy at every move, he'll have to contend with the depressed wages that come with massive immigration, possibly mass layoffs that come with all the Indians brought in on H1-B visas, who are making US tech workers into expendable commodities. He'll have to deal with all this while his political power shrinks as a despised member of the "white male oppression club," he'll have to deal with all the hatred we contend with on college campuses, and even if he makes it through this minefield, he'll still have to deal with all the crime and gangs that are another gift of our mass immigration policies. This is pretty much obvious these days-- we've had a Republican White House and Congress for six years, and if anything we've moved even further in the direction of open-borders and white-hating policies. Thus there's no political solution for the current disaster.

What all this lunacy is doing to me, a person whose ancestors came to America in the early 1700's-- it's making me feel like I'm not an American anymore, like I don't care about my country, one I used to be proud of. I don't even want to live here anymore. What the mass immigrationists fail to understand, is that we whites in America, we not only have an investment in ourselves and our children-- we also have to make a choice about an investment in a country. Traditionally this has been easy, we were proud Americas, but it isn't anymore.

I find this to be the case when I listen to TV reports about how "Iran is a threat to America" or "North Korea is a threat to America." And my reaction (besides the fact that I doubt the jingoism on the television) is-- why should I care? Why should I care if the US stays a great power anymore? The answer is, I really don't care. I have very little emotional investment in this country anymore. Why should I invest so much of myself in the modern USA, invest so much of myself in a country that obviously despises me and my family for who we are, and is so determined to turn us into a minority, despite all the contributions we've made to this place? The elites in the US these days are like the aristocratic, effete idiots running the British Empire as it headed for destruction after WWII (not to mention the elites in charge there today)-- they spit on their own people, content to exploit them and regard them as expendable in every respect, except for their labor, which would be extracted from them (forcibly, if necessary).

I think it would be poetic justice for the 80 million+ German-Americans in the US, and the 45 million+ other Germanic-Americans, to pick up and leave this white-hating nation, emigrate, and move to and contribute their vigor and work ethic to one of the Germanic countries in Europe that still manages to value them-- a place like Germany itself, or Austria, or any of the Scandinavian countries. (*Not* Britain of course, which is worse in its road to serfdom than the United States-- if anything, white Britons are also emigrating en masse. The Netherlands is currently a toss-up, but perhaps merits consideration at least.) Why invest so much of ourselves in a country in which we'll soon be a powerless, despised minority? We would be like Egyptian slaves, laboring in squalor and anguish for decades to build a place in which we ourselves would be denied admission. Much better, in protest, to refuse to contribute our labor to this disgusting imperialistic regime in the first place. I'll probably be emigrating myself, with my wife, son and daughters (although I will at least, stay in the US long enough to vote and block Hillary Clinton from the Presidency-- no interest in having her start up a centralized Bolshevik state here that would threaten everywhere else). There is little to recommend staying here, and I don't care to contribute even more to a regime that so obviously despises me as well as my family so much, and works against us with most of its policies.

Lenny said at May 26, 2006 3:38 AM:

I'll note that this need to block Hillary Clinton, would even mean my holding my nose and casting a ballot for the hated John McCain, if necessary, to block her from a dangerous move into the Oval Office. (McCain is dangerous himself, but not in the same alarming way as Hillary and her entourage are.) But that would be the one, and only one condition in which I would vote for McCain. If the Democrats nominate almost anyone else besides Hillary, then I'll support them. They'd be idiots to nominate Hillary-- if they choose somebody like Richardson or Bayh or maybe Warner, they'll have a winner on their hands.

Lenny said at May 26, 2006 4:10 AM:

Still another indication of my current disillusionment-- I proudly donned a uniform and served my country in Vietnam. Now, I will never allow my son or daughters to serve in the military, because I just don't believe in the abstract ideal of the "country" that they would be sworn to protect. When I signed up for Vietnam, I did so to defend a nation that I perceived as a republic, as a stronghold of true democratic ideals. That's not what I see anymore when I look at the United States.

In fact, when I hear the elites of our regime perk up about some foreign enemy, some external threat that they yell and scream about-- whether Iraq or Iran or Russia-- my bullshit detector goes off loudly. After all, trying to shut up dissent and get people hopping mad at some external threat, some bogeyman on the outside, is a classic technique of an imperial state. I don't buy into it, and I frankly have little invested in protecting this imperialistic regime which obviously cares so little about its own people. If my kids are going to volunteer to serve in defense of a country, I'd prefer they do it in defense of some Germanic European nation, to which we may well be immigrating ourselves in a few years. At least then, their service would be to a place that respects them in turn for their dedication, rather than treating them as expendable serfs in a well-oiled corporatist, Third World-driven, imperialistic regime. Sorry for the rants, but I just had to express something that I (not to mention dozens of my buddies at the bar and at the office) are definitely feeling.

Kenelm Digby said at May 26, 2006 4:46 AM:

You are exactly right.
The market places a very, very low premium on unskilled labor in the USA.The fact is that jobs are filled at $5.50, so there is no rational reason for employers to pay more.
Why is this fact, which is so simple and obvious, even to one untutored in economics, and almost instinctive knowledge, seriously doubted by pompous oafs with strings of letters after their names who produce endless reams of utterly worthless guff, namely monographs and papers, of whom the deluded think are "clever".

Rick Darby said at May 26, 2006 6:35 AM:


I empathize with your feelings about this country. You've expressed them admirably.

But when you talk about emigrating to Germany, I urge you to consider these words: Jump. Frying pan. Fire.

Aside from cultural issues involved in moving to Germany, which has very different values — not just the ones you've mentioned — and of course, language, it has already done what we are doing here, importing a class of low-skill foreigners to work on Maggie's farm. In Germany's case, they are mainly Turks, largely unassimilated and alienated from the host population. There are also plenty of Middle Easterners about whom the same could be said — wasn't one of the cells involved in 9/11 based in Hamburg?

Even if Germany can somehow heal these internal divisions, I suspect it will be hard put to avoid the mass migration from North African Muslim countries that is rapidly changing the face of Europe.

I have several times raised the issue of emigration from the U.S. in the comments section here, usually without raising much apparent interest. In my view this is a subject we should be discussing thoroughly and practically. To the best of my knowledge, though, you still can't just move to whatever country you like; most have far more stringent legal requirements than the U.S. does.

Thoughts, anyone?

Dan said at May 26, 2006 10:29 AM:

This post is why I have long opposed unskilled immigration. To me its all about jobs or the lack of them. In South Florida its reported 85% of construction jobs are filled by illegal immigrants, thus a skilled construction job that should pay $20 an hour goes for $8 an hour. In Chicago I lived in an area undergoing renewal. On the new townhouse construction sites I saw every immigrant in the world Irish carpenters polish and Ukranian roofers, etc. Iwould estimate that their were over 30 workers all together, No African-Americans (In a city 60% of which is African American), the only white americans were the foreman and the construction superintendant. This is not hearsy I could here the talk since it was only 5 foot from my windows. This has nothing to do with race or language. To me even if youre Irish form the the old sod or from El Salvador or the Phillipines it makes no difference youre taking a natives job. I wish some of my colleagues on the left would wake up to this fact. I personally dont care if you speak Tagalog ,Spanish or Swahili, its the job that matters. Dan

The Expat said at May 26, 2006 4:02 PM:

Hi Rick,

As someone who just returned from working more than 6 years in Germany, I can tell you that things very much *have* changed for the better there, and in terms of mass immigration and the Third World invasion, Germany is far, far better than the US or UK at this point. While I'm staying in the US myself at least for the short term (my wife, for various reasons, is stuck in the US at the moment), I would wholeheartedly recommend immigration to Germany to anyone in the US who's considering it, especially if they do have some Germanic blood which does help with the partially ius sanguinis legal framework in Germany. Immigrating to Germany from the US would definitely not be jumping from the frying pan into the fire-- it would be more like jumping from a sinking ship (the USA) into a somewhat rickety, yet ultimately still reliable lifeboat that will get you safely to shore.

I would have agreed with your assessment back in 1999 when I started up in Hamburg. I was appalled that this great Western nation-- frankly the most accomplished of all Western nations per capita in terms of the great scientists, philosophers, artists, authors and musicians that Germany has produced-- was basically inviting so many unruly Muslims and other angry, embittered people from the Third World right into her home. In case you don't know, Hamburg used to be "Islamofascism central" in Germany-- this was where the 9/11 hijackers met and hatched the plot, and it's an area where I'd regularly encounter openly embittered Arabs and some Turks on the train everywhere I went. Most infuriating of all, the German people at the time, and especially the politicians, seemed too doped up and stupid to do anything about the problem, but instead were sticking their heads in the sand and allowing the problem to become worse by the day with new Third World immigrants. I very nearly left in disgust because of it.

Well, I can happily tell you that there's been an absolute sea change in Germany, a strong reaction against mass Third World immigration that's pervaded the public and political classes alike, starting about 5 years ago and reaching enormous strength today. As I recall, in early 2001 or so, there started to be a series of articles that finally broke the ice of political correctness and took a long, hard look at the various German immigrant communities, and the problems that the Turks and Arabs, in particular, were having. This was something that you'd never see in the US-- popular German glossies were starting to ask hard questions, even getting Turkish and Arab writers themselves to participate. And they were spot-on-- the joblessness, the failure to accept German values and cultural traditions, the isolation, the urban frustration, the failures in education that permeated the Muslim Turkish, Kurdish and Arab communities in Germany. They were opening up and freely discussing these issues.

With this start, the discussion really did snowball to reach the highest levels of policy, and even among members of the SDP (the more left-leaning party that preceded today's Christian Democrats), concrete steps were taken to address the problem and not only sharply reduce Third-World immigration, but send many of the Muslims there back home. To my astonishment, it's actually had some success. In the past couple years in particular, Germany's taken a series of remarkably smart policy steps that would be politically impossible in the USA. Germany now uses a points system to selectively screen immigrants for work and eventual settlement in Germany, and the points system is exactly what it should be-- pluses for people with skills and want to start families (or already have them) and who are law-abiding, but also, and very importantly, pluses for people who are from other European or Western (North America, Australia, New Zealand) countries, who have an understanding of and appreciation for Western culture, and who have a basic respect for Western political ideals like democracy and freedom of speech and the press.

Most interestingly, Germany also has a "plus" provision for people with Germanic ancestry. Note that such ancestry is in no way essential (Serbo-Croatians who make it, for example, are also accepted as citizens), but it does help matters. It's fascinating how this works and I admit that I still don't understand it entirely myself, but Germany gives special preference to immigrants whose ancestral ties link them in some way to a Germanic homeland. The reason they use "Germanic" rather than "German" per se is that, of course, Germany itself wasn't a country until 1871, and many countries of northern Europe (which often sent people to the USA or Australia, for example) have shared with Germany, the cultural aspects of free enterprise, interest in technology, support for democracy, self-initiative, innovation, freedom of thought, interest in intellectual pursuits, and other features that have made the German people so accomplished, as Lenny was indicating above. Thus, people whose ancestors stemmed originally from what currently constitutes Germany itself, naturally have ius sanguinis advantages and an easier time at immigration-- thus Germany was able to import close to 4 million ethnic Germans from Russia, Kazakhstan and the Ukraine in recent years, while smoothing their paths toward citizenship. People with not only German ancestry but Dutch, Scandinavian and British ancestry do indeed have some ius sanguinis advantages. Furthermore, people from Germanic communities elsewhere in Europe (such as the many scattered German communities of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and the Visigothic and Lombardic settlers in Spain and Italy, respectively) also get the ius sanguinis boost. I, for example, am of both Hungarian and northern Italian ancestry (with an Armenian great-grandfather in there, too). The Italian people on my paternal side are fairly stocky people but many with red or brownish hair, blue and green eyes, and old Germanic names that have been Italianized-- i.e., they're the descendants of the Lombards who settled ages ago in northern Italy and who still, even today, in many cases speak dialects of German (as recognized by the Italian government itself). The Germans don't make a big deal about the physical features of course, but the point is, this means that I effectively have German blood and can demonstrate it (apparently this is also the case with my Hungarian ancestors), which would smooth the transition for my immigration to Germany if I so chose (which I may at some point in the future, who knows).

At any rate, Germany's recent immigration codes have been cleverly designed to maximize the intake of Europeans whether in Europe or in North America, Australia and New Zealand, especially those with skills and with a plus for those with Germanic ancestry-- while instituting demerits and "minuses" for Muslim immigrants and others from the Third World who really won't contribute much to German society. Welfare for recent immigrants has been sharply curbed, which means that many of those Turks and Arabs-- who'd been living off the welfare teat-- are now forced to earn a living on German soil. The practical effect? The most Islamist, anti-Western of those have largely left the country. In early 2006 in Hamburg, you can still see many Arabs in traditional garb, even a few muttering frustrations with the West in general, so the problem isn't 100% solved of course, but it's definitely gotten much, much better than when I started there. Over 1 million of those unproductive, bitter Arabs, Kurds and Turks, sojouring in Germany and dwelling off the public teat, have left the country. Those that have remained, in many cases, are Christian Arabs (probably Crusader descendants in many cases) or a small fraction of Muslims who are far more productive. Germany's also become very strict with any criminality among the immigrants-- even misdemeanor charges can lead to deportations.

Contrast this with Britain and France, who continue to bring in millions of people from the Third World who seem to hate the West, and refuses to do anything even about the most criminal elements, and you can see that Germany-- along with other German-speaking countries like Austria and Switzerland-- has finally developed and implemented a sensible immigration policy that solidly preserves Western civilization there (and the Germanic majority) while providing useful labor, both cheap and highly skilled. The German-speaking nations really have it figured out.

I wouldn't worry too much about Turkey acceding to the EU, because it's not happening. That possibility was effectively killed when the proposed EU constitution was defeated last year (though obviously the main EU economic underpinnings are still intact). Moreover, the European leaders (mostly from France, curiously enough) have already introduced a series of "poison pills" as prerequisites for even re-opening future negotiations for Turkish accession to the EU, which effectively block any chance of it. The Turks, for example, would effectively have to give up any control in Cyprus-- which the Turks would never accept-- and also basically admit the Armenian Holocaust, while resolving their festering Kurdish problem and reaching a level of population stabilization and economic health that they're decades away from. The new German government is also adamantly against Turkish accession, so it's not happening in any way, shape or form. FWIW though, some American politicians-- Hillary Clinton most notable among them-- have been pushing hard to try to reopen the negotiations for Turkish accession, since they figure it would weaken the EU. Thus I agree with Lenny, Hillary Clinton must absolutely be stopped, even if it means voting for the atrocious John McCain in 2008. Hillary has a missile with a target labeled "Western Civilization" on it, and she cannot be allowed to reach national power. I wish the Dems would nominate somebody else (who I agree, I'd support over McCain-- somebody like Warner or Richardson or even Gore would indeed be acceptable choices to me). However, if the Dems are idiotic enough to nominate Hillary, then I'll hold back the impulse to retch and vote for McCain or George Allen if he were nominated for the GOP.

One more interesting tidbit about the Turks who do remain in Germany. Remember that the Turks are an extremely heterogeneous people, with only a minority, in fact, being the original Central Asian invaders who conquered Constantinople. Most of the Greeks, Slavs, and Scandinavians (descendants of the Viking defenders of the Byzantine Emperor) stayed in Constantinople and adopted a veneer of Turkish Muslim culture, and to this group were added the janissaries (mostly Slavic and Germanic stock) kidnapped in to protect the sultan from the 1400's onward. So many Turks actually *are* Europeans, with a slight veneer of Turkish culture, who are quite prone to reverting to their Western, Christian heritage once they stay for a while in Germany or other European countries. This in fact has occurred. Notice that the situation in Turkey is the opposite of that in Latin America. There are many White Europeans in places like Mexico and Colombia, but they are the rich minority, a small minority, with no need to emigrate, while it's the poorest of the poor among the Afro-Indians who tend to come to the US. In Turkey, it's the European descendants who are effectively shut out of power, and they're the ones most likely to emigrate. In my trips to Eastern Germany, I found it remarkable that many of the "Turks" were more blonde and blue-eyed than the native Germans in many cases. I saw as many people with blond, brownish, or reddish hair as the more Central Asian-appearing Turks, that I had expected. Fortunately, these European Turks tend to be the most likely to remain and succeed in Germany, while the more Islamized Central Asians had a greater prospect of returning. So even among the minority of immigrants who are Turkish (and it's a dwindling minority-- you're much more likely to encounter Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, Russians and Ukrainians these days than Turks), a big fraction of them are basically European. Thus Germany, all in all, is a pretty decent place to immigrate to these days.

The Expat said at May 26, 2006 4:35 PM:

BTW Rick,

I definitely do like your idea of a discussion on emigration from the USA as a topic-- maybe something that merits its own blog or a bulletin/discussion board to elicit feedback, if you've been considering that. It would be of use, if for no other reason than that there clearly are millions of Americans who are furious at what the country's come to, and are in serious consideration of emigration. I was shocked at how many emigrants from the US and UK that I met while in Europe, and I was astonished when I returned to the USA to my old office here, only to hear so many of my old pals grumbling at Happy Hour, at how I would have been better off staying in Germany rather than returning-- and how many of them wanted to resettle in Europe or somewhere similar ASAP!

I suspect that the two barriers where emigration-minded Americans could use the most advice, are 1. the immigration policies of various countries, as you suggest, and 2. learning the language of the places. Honestly, learning the language itself is a snap. Most Europeans I met found it a bit comical how anxious Americans often get at the prospect of learning and practically using a new language-- they commonly speak 3 or 4 there and have no problems. Moreover, if you actually live in a European country for a sustained period of time, it's just amazing how quickly you pick up the language even if you don't have formal study (though formal study can help). I was pretty close to the bottom of the class in French classes in high school, just terrible, and I was very apprehensive when I took up the offer to work in Germany, even though my company helped to sponsor some language-tutoring sessions. But when I actually arrived in Hamburg (before later moving southward, much prettier in the Alpine regions), I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to pick up conversational and then formal and advanced German. When you're exposed to conversational situations on a repeated basis, you just figure out the routine and rapidly build up your vocabulary. It's not difficult at all. I would advise at least some language study before going. Book and software programs like Instant Immersion, Colloquial German, Pimsleur, Teach Yourself, Living Language, Rosetta Stone and the smaller book/software companies are great, but not absolutely essential-- you'll learn the most when you get there.

As for destination countries, again, I'm obviously partial to the German-speaking countries like Germany, Austria and Switzerland, which are easily at the same or a similar standard of living and technological and economic level as the USA, with far more respect for Western culture and a better immunity against the Third-World invasion. I also adored Italy when I was in Europe. I'd always heard the stereotypes that Italy was corrupt and inefficient, but when I was there on repeated occasions, I found the opposite-- the Italian cities are remarkably well-maintained and surprisingly efficient, and I think that Italy (especially the northern cities) would be a great place to move to. I don't know as much about Spain and Portugal, but most of my British and American friends who have moved there say it's a wonderful place, with (to my surprise) strong barriers against Third World immigration. Interestingly, perhaps because the Mediterranean countries like Spain, Portugal and Italy are across the sea from North Africa and so near the Arab Middle East, they're more realistic and much tougher about preventing the Third World invasion. Also, they naturally like to have North Americans and Britons move there, people whom they see as entrepreneurial and big contributors to the national economy. Most of Scandinavia is decent. Denmark is the best destination probably, along with Finland, though I don't think that Sweden and Norway are (yet) all that bad, though they do need to change their immigration policies and stop inviting in so many Somalis who just game the system and live off welfare.

Unfortunately, I really don't think there's anywhere in the English-speaking world that's suitable as an immigration destination-- practically every Anglosphere country has been overrun by the noxious "diversity" fraud propaganda, with whites destined for minority status very soon in just about all of the Anglophone nations. The US and UK have it especially awful, but Canada, Australia, even New Zealand have some nasty problems of their own in this regard. France? I know they've been moving in the direction of clamping down hard on Third World immigration, with the Sarkozy plan. I just don't yet trust them to follow through. I'd perhaps keep an open mind about France as a potential immigration destination in the future, just not yet-- they're going to have to prove themselves to rate highly as a desirable destination. Belgium and the Netherlands? Both have been way too lackadaisical about Third World invaders. Recently, they've finally begun to crack down, but it's just too early for me to offer up much of a knowledgeable opinion yet, at all.

There's still another reason to consider emigrating from the US, perhaps the strongest one of all-- the housing market in the US will be collapsing by about 2010 or so, and now is probably as good a time as any to lock in your gains and your equity, sell your house and rake in the profits, and then move to a European country where the cost-of-living is less and the culture isn't as reflexively anti-Western (and anti-white, for that matter) as in the USA. My wife and I have years of equity here, and while we're stuck in the US for the moment, selling off our home and collecting the profits may well be a way to smooth emigration for us by 2010 or thereabouts.

Rick Darby said at May 26, 2006 5:17 PM:


I really appreciate your long and thoughtful comments about emigration. And I am very, very heartened to learn about Germany's turnaround. Most Americans, I think, are prejudiced against Germany because of its association with the Nazi era, even though we know intellectually that it's a vastly different country now, so we are probably inclined to believe the worst about it in the absence of personal experience.

I'm glad that Germans appreciate what is good about their cultural heritage, and of course most of it is good, and are trying to preserve it instead of pissing it away. If only the UK and the US would do the same. Well, actually, as you know, there are a great many Americans who are proud of this country's achievements and culture, but as our Senate so aptly demonstrated this week, their wishes count for nothing.

The US could turn around, too. We've shown that we can reform ourselves on a grand scale. Look, for instance, at how relatively quickly we eliminated legal discrimination and most social discrimination against black people. All that discrimination was built into the system as strongly as political correctness is now, but when it was past time to change, we did. So I won't count the States out quite yet.

Still, you've always got to have a backup plan. If the US does, in the end, turn itself into a Third World country I don't want to live out the remaining 20 to 30 years (actuarially speaking) of my life in that kind of environment. So I would definitely consider emigrating if the practical problems could be overcome. In my case, I'm five to ten years from retirement, well educated but not rich, and work in a field (aviation technical writing and editing) that is rather specialized.

I think there are probably quite a few people in similar situations asking themselves the same questions: Where would I be comfortable living? Would they accept me? What kind of income could I have? And even: if things really go to hell here, could I be considered a political refugee?

It would be an excellent focus for a blog, but probably not run by me, as I have trouble finding time to maintain the blog I already have, Reflecting Light.

Anyway, Expat, thanks again for taking the trouble to reply at such length. I will re-read and think about your comments several times.

Incidentally, I know what you mean about people of German ancestry all over the place. I was struck by how many blond, blue-eyed people I saw in Sicily, and when I inquired as tactfully as I could about the reason for it, I was told that the Germans (or was it the Austro-Hungarian Empire? I forget) had ruled Sicily for a while. Of course, half the countries of Europe (and in ancient times, Rome and the Phoenicians) had a go at running Sicily.

TangoMan said at May 26, 2006 5:51 PM:


Over 1 million of those unproductive, bitter Arabs, Kurds and Turks, sojouring in Germany and dwelling off the public teat, have left the country.

It would be very useful to me if you could provide a source for this claim. It wold basically validate the notion that people do self-deport.

The Expat said at May 26, 2006 8:28 PM:

Hi Tangoman,

The reports of the 1 million+ Turks returning home in the past few years appeared mainly in the local German-language newspapers and newsmagazines when I was there, e.g. an outstanding article in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung from November 2005. However, I don't think their archives are available online (not for free, at least).

Here's one link from a forum but that basically recopies in a report from I believe one of the dry politico-economic newsmagazines (sort of like the Financial Times but a more weekly format), noting that over 2 million Turks have gone home--


Here's another (sorry, all in German)

I'll try to hunt down a link from the periodicals in Germany itself and translate, or just give a capsule from the article in the FAZ. The German newspapers for the most part don't have the sorts of searchable databases or free online access as US periodicals (or maybe they do, I'm just not competent enough to search them). But suffice it to say, this isn't really news in Germany anymore-- the only factor keeping the unproductive Turks in Germany was the wide availability of welfare benefits, and the recent reforms on that front have shut down their access to that stream and pretty much forced them back to Turkey. They pretty much have no alternative.

The Expat said at May 26, 2006 10:09 PM:

One other thing I'll mention, for the sake of giving credit to our true friends in Europe who actually care about preserving Western Civilization-- one of the big heroes in the German immigration reform process (which has encouraged Germanic and other European inflows while slamming the door shut on further Turkish inflows), and also in opposing Turkish accession to the EU, is Edmund Stoiber. You probably haven't heard of him, but he's a prominent political leader in the Christian Social Union (CSU) Party, a partner with the ruling CDU. He's one of the toughest, most hard-nosed political leaders in Europe, and he's in many ways the brains behind Germany's immigration policies. Stoiber was also the one who insisted that Angela Merkel, the current PM, favor a "privileged partnership" for Turkey rather than full EU accession, and his stand is shared with the vast majority of German citizens.

Again, just to reiterate here-- there's no way that Turkey is getting EU membership. I followed the debate closely when I was in Germany (we all did), but what the canny observers were able to figure out, is that the EU leaders weren't actually making serious offers for Turkey to join, but rather finally laying out on the table all the reasons that Turkey could never realistically be a member, and thus paving a path for a privileged partnership status with special trade arrangements (which allow the flow of goods but put sharp curbs on Turkish immigration). That idiot Condoleezza Rice (I really do despise Condi Rice), as well as Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton among some others, have been amongst the strongest proponents of Turkish accession into the EU, since again, they see that this would overwhelm the EU demographically and essentially cause it to disintegrate, while allowing NATO to empower itself at the expense of the EU. (We need to destroy all of their political careers, of Condi, Hillary and Biden, as well as Lieberman, Kerry and some others-- they're too dangerous for the USA and too dangerous for Western civilization in general.) Fortunately, the EU leaders (and especially the people) stood their ground, and Turkey's membership is esssentially being blocked. There are several reasons for this.

1. Cyprus. This was a brilliant political stratagem on the part of the EU. While I was often rather irritated at EU bureaucracy when I was working in Europe, I have to candidly admit, the EU has some aspects to it that are pretty clever and make sure that the will of the people actually translates into genuine action on immigration and EU enlargement, even if obliquely (quite unlike the US and UK, where the people are given lip service but treated in effect as pawns, with moneyed interests having the real power). The prior accession of Cyprus and the granting of full voting and veto rights to the Cypriots are, in my opinion, the chief vehicle that the EU has used to thwart Turkish accession. The Turks refuse to recognize the Greek Cypriot government, and any cave-in on this issue would be political suicide for a government in Ankara. The Turks would not only have to recognize Cyprus, but also to provide all kinds of economic benefits, trade adjustments, and open sea lanes to Greek Cypriot merchants, which is basically impossible politically. As an added protection, the Cypriot government has full veto power over any of the chapters in which Turkey participates for potential accession-- that's over 70 opportunities for a veto! The Cypriots have an even more bitter relationship with Turkey than the Greeks, and they're adamantly against EU accession. Cyprus alone has effectively shut down Turkey's aspirations for membership.

2. Referenda in EU countries. Both France and Austria have set things up so that a "yes" vote in a referendum would be needed to allow Turkish accession, and both are bitterly against it. Austria is perhaps my favorite country in Europe along with Germany, and the Austrians alone are blocking any chances of accession. That's because of the Austrian historical memory-- it was the Austrians after all, who were most responsible for thwarting the Turkish advance into Europe at the gates of Vienna, and the Austrians have never forgotten that fact. They're certainly not inclined to allow the Turks to conquer Europe by immigration when they couldn't prevail by force of arms. Among the Austrian population, 80% of the citizens are opposed to Turkish accession, which effectively kills Turkey's accession bid right there. In fact, Austrian opposition has been hardening even further recently-- the Austrians, like the Germans, have been furious at the Turkish and Kurdish "honor killings" of their women, and have now become intensely opposed even more than before, against Turkish EU membership.

Once again, the Austrians are at the vanguard of Europe's defense against the Muslim onslaught, and standing strong even as cowards like the British (who are the ones most in favor of Turkish membership) advocate for Turkish accession and invasion.

There's a twist here, since France is also standing its ground. I know a lot of us have bashed France (I'm certainly one of them), but the French are standing strong here. Well over 60% of the French population is against Turkish membership, with only half that percentage in favor. Also, French leaders, such as Valery Giscaird d'Estaing (a former French President), have been strongly warning against Turkish accession. The French have also been hitting the Turks hard with further demands, like admission of the Armenian Holocaust, which Turkey is loath to agree to. So the French have finally managed to summon up the tough backbone that Charles Martel's Franks showed at Poitiers so many centuries ago. Maybe France should be regarded as a decent immigration destination for US emigres, after all.

3. The EU Constitution rejection. The original proposed EU Constitution basically provided a smooth path to accession by Turkey. But the Dutch and the French both rejected it (French coming through once again), so the pro-Turkish provisions were scrapped. An entirely new EU Treaty is now being formulated to govern admission of new EU countries, and for obvious reasons, it effectively bars any smooth path to Turkish membership.

4. Economic issues. Turkey would have to bring its deficit down to at most 3% of GDP to even be considered. Not even close.

5. The Kurdish problem. Another poison pill for Turkish accesssion. The still-bitter and worsening proto-civil war between the Turks and the Kurdish minority is unacceptable to Europe, and contributing further to rejection of Turkish membership.

There are even more factors than mentioned here, but the upshot is that any prospective Turkish membership in the EU is dead on arrival. It's been blocked before it even made it off the ground. Frankly, this will probably be good for the Turks as well as for the EU. I don't particularly see why Turkey is so fixated on being in the EU, full of countries with a very different outlook and cultural background. Turkey could instead be a sort of leader within the Muslim world, the most progressive (relatively speaking) of the Muslim states.

Britain's cowardly cave-in on the Turkish EU accession question, BTW, is another reason I came to severely dislike the UK. In fact, of all the countries I visited in Europe, it was Britain that I found to be by far the most miserable and unpleasant country in the bunch. In London, Birmingham and other cities, the public transportation systems and work areas are literally inundated with people from the Third World. I saw far more Jamaicans, Pakistanis and Africans than White British in the big cities and even in some of the smaller ones. There are mosques rising up everywhere you look, and hundreds more arising every year. In fact, Muslim countries are consistently the top senders of immigrants to Britain. While the Muslims in Britain do seem to have a somewhat better work ethic than the North Africans across the Channel, they nonetheless are prone to much higher crime and unemployment rates-- the Caribbeans have truly awful rates of graduation and university attendance. These days, Somalia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Morocco, Afghanistan, Egypt, Nigeria, even Sierra Leone are among the top senders of people to the United Kingdom, while even among sending countries in which Muslims aren't the majority (e.g. India, Ghana, Kenya) a disproportionate fraction of the immigrant pool consists of angry Muslims. The picture's even worse, since Britain seems to be a big magnet for Muslims from elsewhere in the EU. When France passed that law banning headscarves among the Algerians, Libyans, Moroccans, Egyptians and Tunisians there, tens of thousands of them decided to leave-- with the lion's share going to Britain. When the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and Denmark recently instituted tougher immigration laws and rules directed at their Muslim populations, again, tens of thousands of them took off, with Britain the most popular destination by far. For that matter, even the non-Muslims in Great Britain seem to have a tendency to join in gangs and commit crimes at much higher rates than the native population (or when compared, e.g., to the Eastern European or East Asian immigrants in Germany, for example). Amsterdam I also found to have problems, but for some strange reason, the place didn't feel nearly as Third-World stifling as London did, and besides, Amsterdam is a much more fun city with much better bars.

In short, I couldn't stand Britain when I was there. The streets are crowded, pollution high, crime infests the neighborhoods, in general it just seemed like a lousy place. It's understandable why hundreds of thousands of Britons leave to settle elsewhere in the EU every year. Indeed, next to the Third World United States (whites already a minority in schools as others have been describing), I found the United Kingdom to be the most hostile to its own native white population. One of my friends recently suggested that the English-speaking nations seem to have a "suicide virus" integrated into the belief systems of their elites, in which both "liberals" and "conservatives" get trapped in all the idiotic talk about diversity to the extent that they trash their own populations. He may be right. The fact that Britain used to be a multiracial empire-- and the US currently is, for all practical purposes-- has caused us to fail entirely to appreciate the fundamental importance of a base culture. I'm not the sort of person who likes to dwell in a lily-white city, I actually like all the ethnic Indian, Chinese, Mexican and other restaurants, the variations in culture and all that. But it's a question of extent-- it's fine to have some ethnic minorities in a country to spice it up a bit, but mass immigration, to the extent that the immigrants and their kids outnumber the natives, is a recipe for sheer failure. That's precisely the direction in which pretty much the entire Anglophone world is moving.

As Lenny was saying, this in fact is probably the best indication of the alienation that I'm sure we feel by the millions in the USA. When I see the war in Iraq, the proposed war in Iran, all this jingoistic crap directed at China, I don't see just wars in any way-- I see acts of imperial aggression, and I would never allow myself or a friend or family member to volunteer for the military as a result. 20 years ago maybe, I would have volunteered to fight for my country, now I wouldn't anymore. I don't have any desire to support this idiotic imperialistic project that turns whites into a minority at home while squandering our blood and treasure abroad. I've noticed a lot of neoconservative commentators (I HATE the neocons) get all full of bluster about the threat of Iran and China, and my response, like Lenny's I guess, is-- why should I care? First of all, I sincerely doubt those countries are threats (especially China, which for all its problems seems to be a patient power with little interest in aggressive warfare like the US, gradually moving toward something like a republic-- even as the US moves toward an empire, oddly enough). Second, why would I fight to defend the United States anymore-- a country that doesn't in any way represent something that I respect? I would essentially be shedding my own blood as a result of imperialistic propaganda against a foreign enemy drummed up to help support the military-industrial complex, and fighting not to defend the republic and the values of democracy, but instead fighting to defend the profit margins of the corrupt elites who exploit us enough as it is, and fighting also in the name of a regime that's basically replacing my European brethren with the Third World. I'd effectively be fighting and getting shot at, along with other whites, to help maximize the wealth of a country in which my people will very soon be a detested minority, and in which the plutocrats get more filthy rich every day at our expense. Why would I fight for this imperialistic monstrosity? The answer is, I won't. I don't even have my heart in national celebrations like July 4th anymore. This, to me, is the strongest indication that my identity as an American has become weak. Again, as I said before, I'm stuck here in the short term for economic reasons. But over the medium term, if I could, I'd definitely opt to move to a strong European country like Austria, Germany or Italy, and encourage others to do the same. Just start learning a new language appropriate for the place you're interested in, and make concrete plans to relocate. You'll be doing yourselves and your kids an immense favor.

Scott said at May 27, 2006 9:35 AM:

Great discussion! Thanks to everyone.

Kevin said at July 24, 2006 6:00 PM:

Black Americans Should Not Support Illegal Aliens’ False Civil Rights Claims
Kevin Fobbs

This summer the U.S. House of Representatives will be holding hearings on what to do about the millions of illegal aliens that are in the United States, including here in the state of Michigan. Blacks in Michigan, Ohio, New York, Georgia and all over America have to be wondering, did we just lose another place in the line of American opportunity on May 1st?

On May 1st hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens took to American streets to essentially blackmail America into supporting their alleged “civil rights” which sent up at least a half dozen red flags in the black community. I’m quite certain that thousands of black mothers and fathers in metro Detroit – who, by the way, are here in this country legally -- who are struggling to obtain a decent education, or affordable housing, or quality health care or a job to support their family just had to wonder why 12 to 20 million illegal aliens think they should suddenly jump ahead of them in hijacking their rights as citizens to the American Dream.

What exactly is a “civil right”? What must one have been deprived of, and under what conditions are these civil rights to be earned or obtained? There is a marked difference between the blood shed, sacrifice made and the entitlements earned by the black civil rights experience of the 19th and 20th century struggles and the current claims of millions of illegal aliens.

So as we reflect during Independence Month this July, the civil rights which each black family earned generation by generation, struggling as citizens under threat of lynching, under threat of fire bombings, under threat of murder… but as citizens is being compared to illegal aliens who want “civil rights” that are not only not earned but they aren’t warranted without citizenship at the expense of our citizen’s independence!

Here we go again…

This isn’t the first time some folks who were not brought against their will and without the “open and obvious” ability to group them by their skin color to systematically deny their rights tried to pin its “civil rights” entitlement to the coattails of the black struggle for civil rights in the hope that leaders like Rev. Jesse Jackson and millions of black Americans would fall for the rouse. Recently it was gay Americans who claimed several years ago that their struggle was the same as Americans of African decent. It didn’t work.

Even Rev. Jesse Jackson had to admit to no real connection to the threadbare attempt to compares the gay experience to the black struggle as if by some miraculous transformation they or any other group who had not gone through the same valiant struggles should somehow be awarded a “Civil Rights Badge of Constitutional Entitlement” earned and fought for by generations of African Americans since and even before the Civil War.

Now comes another group attempting to attach its claims to black civil rights struggles. The illegal alien movement wants to claim that the 14th Amendment protections apply to them and more importantly to the estimated 600,000 anchor babies in our nation that are incorrectly eventually given full citizenship status.

What is disturbing is that the illegal alien agenda is not a civil rights agenda. The illegal alien agenda attempts to equate evading our border patrols to deserving a civil rights badge of martyrdom. Now 12 to 20 million illegal aliens who for 25 years have simply walked across, swam across, or were driven under cover of darkness across our nation’s border feel they have endured the same comparable experience to the countless harrowing “Underground Railroad” trips made by Harriett Tubman or Sojourner Truth through slave states to convey slaves to freedom.

Of course there is no logical comparison, but there are some black leaders who attempt to make a connection and in their effort are failing black people when they cheapen their worth. This open support and advocacy for illegal alien rallies which demand more and more American resources, more boycotts, more walkouts… at the expense of far too many black Americans who struggle daily for jobs, decent education and housing is wrong… wrong… wrong!

Where are the courageous black leaders of a century ago such as Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. Dubois, who urged American industry and businesses to turn to black American workers? Would those same leaders today be seeking support for illegal immigrant labor and their rights over those of black unemployed or young black adults looking for their first job, first home, first opportunity? Is that fair to any American whose forebears came to this country and worked legally to obtain a place in American society?

I have to ask Rev. Jesse Jackson about his defense of illegal aliens’ rights being put ahead of black Americans who have suffered racism for far too many generations.

Should the several hundred thousand who marched in Chicago on May 1st be given Rev. Jesse Jackson’s son’s seat in Congress seat because they were loud enough to be heard over the quiet cries of his constituents who have earned the civil right seat on the Freedom Bus? You have to wonder what Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. would say during these summer illegal immigration hearings should they come to Chicago’s south side.

In 25 years, while illegal aliens have been stealing across the border, black Americans have to be wondering over that same span of time just where are the entry-level jobs for them? Black Chicagoans have to be wondering, with far too many students leaving the public school system each year, should precious educational resources from Illinois or Washington be spent on millions of illegal alien students who by law should not be here, but because some political and black leaders’ fear of breaking a political correctness infraction, black and white American children may and will lose out on educational resources to help level the playing field of their own constituent’s achievement?

For 12 years I served as a board member in Wayne County, Michigan for one of the largest social service agencies in America. I can tell you right now that I can not think of a single black family who received much needed services in order to help keep their family’s body, soul and spirit together, would have or should have given up their essential financial supports, their job training and their educational benefits which would help get their family to get back on the right track toward raising their family up from poverty so that illegal aliens could benefit from their entitlements.

I’m sure these families on welfare have to be wondering just how much more should they take from an America that is willing to let millions of illegal aliens blackmail our nation, walk out on the country for a day and demand protections for their families, for their children that the illegal aliens’ own government back in Mexico should provide them… but gladly shows its legal citizens the “Yellow Brick Road” to our nation’s pocketbook.

Well black America, maybe its time for you to begin a nationwide “Walk In”.

If millions of illegal aliens can demonstrate on the backs of black Americans, push you out of line, and take the legacy of Rosa Park’s dramatic act of civil disobedience in sitting down for earned civil rights, then take a page from their book.

If millions of illegal aliens can walk out on America… Black Americans … Let’s “Walk IN” for our civil rights!

Let’s give our children and our families and our communities and our jobs and our veterans and our legacies a well-deserved “Walk In” and show all Americans what all citizens, and especially black American citizens of our nation can do.

No, this is not the nation that our true civil rights heroes struggled against racism, and against racial marginalism and against economic deprivation so that maybe, just maybe, in a generation or two their heirs would have an opportunity to succeed and inherit the fullness and richness of the American Dream only to be kicked off the bus and out of the line.

No, I don’t think there are black Americans who should stand and wait while millions of illegal aliens’ whose only struggle was to cross America’s border and take the birthright of black Americans and their ancestor’s civil rights legacy without a fight, without a comment and without a struggle. We must say no… not this time… not this way… and not to our people.

Black America send a wake up call to the millions of illegal aliens who want your place in line and leave you still trying to play by the rules. You will stand up and walk into the line. Walk into your civil rights and walk into your jobs, your schools, your hospitals, and your child’s scholarships and into your future. After 300 plus years of struggle, I think black America is entitled to its civil rights. Walk In and Stay In.

# # #

Kevin Fobbs is President of National Urban Policy Action Council (NuPac). View NuPac on the web at www.nupac.info. Kevin Fobbs is a regular contributing columnist to the Detroit News. He is also the host of The Kevin Fobbs Show -- see www.kevinfobbs.com. Write him at kevin@kevinfobbs.com.

Laura said at July 26, 2006 10:05 PM:

Writer, looking for Randy Parker, formerly of Hampton Va. In 70"s. Was family friend of the Cunninghams of Buffalo Ny. He was originally from out west. Contact Writeon479@cs.com, with more identifying info to confirm identity. Want to include him in book.

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