2006 February 02 Thursday
Time To Buy Danish Products To Counteract Muslim Boycott

Muslims are boycotting Danish products (and Norwegian products to a lesser extent) in response to cartoons critical of Islam which ran in a Danish newspaper in September 2005.

Other Danish companies targeted in the boycott include Lego, the toymaker, and Novo Nordisk, the pharmaceuticals company.

As popular protests spread, the leaders of Egypt and Afghanistan warned the cartoonshad offended millions of Muslims and could be exploited by terrorists in their war against the west.

“Any insult to the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is an insult to more than 1bn Muslims and an act like this must never be allowed to be repeated,” said Hamid Karzai, Afghan president, strong western ally and moderate Muslim leader.

I loved Lego when I was a kid.

Europeans see a double standard in what the Arabic TV channels show.

A number of European papers, including Germany's Die Welt, Spain's El Periodico, the Netherlands' de Volkskrant and Italy's La Stampa, then responded by republishing the drawings in support of the principle of free expression. "I don't really understand the fuss," Die Welt editor Roger Köppel, who ran one on his front page today, told German television. "Arabic television has shown beheadings and staged bestial rituals involving Jewish rabbis. We're seeing double standards at work here, and it's the job of journalists to expose them." Larry Kilman, communications director of the World Association of Newspapers, says the "overreaction in the Middle East is disturbing."

Well, no kidding. But that double standard is because Islam teaches that Muslims should rule and Muslims should not have to compromise with non-believers.

Danish dairy company Arla, a big exporter to the Middle East, is laying off workers due to a collapse in Middle Eastern demand for Danish dairy products.

A leading Danish exporter to Arab countries yesterday announced its first job cuts in reaction to a boycott of the Scandinavian country's goods.

Arla Foods, Europe's second-largest dairy company, said it would lay off 125 staff in its northern Danish factories, adding that a further 40 people would see their working hours reduced.

"We will lay off, from tomorrow, 125 people working in dairy factories in Bislev, near Aalborg" in northern Denmark, spokeswoman Astrid Nilsen for Arla Food said.

Arla Foods, a co-operative owned by some 11,600 milk producers in Denmark and Sweden, is Europe's second-largest dairy company.

It is also Denmark's biggest exporter to Arab countries, accounting for one-third of total Danish exports there.

All of Arla's orders to the Middle East have been cancelled.

All Arla’s customers in the region have cancelled their orders and sales have come to a standstill in almost all markets. Arla’s warehouses are full, and further products sent before the boycott started are on their way from Denmark. Within the next few days, Arla will decide whether to suspend production for the Middle East.

That is a pretty complete boycott.

But many Arabs can't be bothered to figure out which products are Danish and so the boycott is falling more widely..

JEDDAH, 31 January 2006 — Quick, which of these three products is Danish: NIDO milk, Kinder chocolate, or Anchor dairy?

The answer is none of the above.

Many international brands have become targets of the recent boycott of Danish products, thanks to the confusion of consumers caused in part by the misinformation distributed by the proponents of the ban.

You beer drinkers have two easy ways to support Denmark: Drink Carlsberg and Tuborg.

Some sites have produced lists of Danish goods available in the U.S., including Arla cheeses (Rosenborg, Dofino and Mediterra), toys (Lego) and beer (Carlsberg, Tuborg).

I went digging for more Danish companies and products. In the market for some stereo equipment? Check out Danish company Bang & Olufsen for speakers, telephones, stereos, and video systems. See Bang & Olufsen on Froogle Google for mail order stereo equipment. Going to do some painting? Danish company Hempel makes paints and surface coatings. How about some Danish furniture? Need lighting? Le Klint has all sorts of stylish light fixtures. Or you could buy jewelry or sunglasses by Georg Jensen. That's a pricey luxury brand. Check out Georg Jensen on Froogle Google. Or go to the Danish Art & Christmas Shop and buy products that will ship directly from Denmark. In Oakland California Nordic House does mail order shipments of food, candy, chocolate, cookware, mugs, and other things Danish.

In supermarkets one can easily buy Danish. I see Danish Havarti cheeses in a nearby supermarket and have enjoyed Havarti with garlic and herb and also the dill Havarti. Here is a list of Danish cheeses including Danablu and Danish Fontina. Check out the Wikipedia entries on Danish Blue (Danablu) and Danish Tilsit.

If you have any more ideas for ways to buy Danish products please post them in the comments for this post.

Update: See Paul Belien's Take Note Cardiff: We Are All Danes Now.

Update II: Michelle Malkin has an extensive list of Danish products.

What has the religious pox on humanity gotten so upset about to stop buying Danish products? Cartoons. Just cartoons.

Update III: The Muslims did make paintings and other visual representations of Muhammad/Mohammed/Muhammed in previous centuries.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2006 February 02 08:31 PM  Civilizations Clash Of


Comments
a said at February 2, 2006 11:32 PM:

Californians can visit Solvang, in your general area if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.solvangusa.com/

TangoMan said at February 3, 2006 12:13 AM:

Europeans see a double standard

No Kidding. Check out these cartoons from the Arab world.

Dirk said at February 4, 2006 4:43 AM:

At this site, a Dutch blogger collects and translates all Moh-toons published recently. He also has a call to publish and make as many cartoons as possible.

Le Monde said at February 7, 2006 12:21 PM:

So we're all supposed to start buying Danish products at the expense of our own local industries?that's smart!!!

Khurram Khan said at February 7, 2006 12:52 PM:

You will not be able to boycott the boycott of danish products because Muslims are the huge community using danish products and we will bring the Danish Government to its knees by boycotting the Danish products. We are only asking for an apology and they are not doing it so. Therefore we have a right to take an action and thats FREEDOM which we have learned from you. Your FREEDOM will take you to hell but even there you'll be crying FREEDOM, freedom of speech, freedom to gay and lesbian marriages, freedom to have sex with animals, freedom of donating a sperm, freedom of abortion..... God knows what is going to happen to your society. Remember everything that goes up has to come back down. And same is happening to you.

Randall Parker said at February 7, 2006 4:03 PM:

Khurram Khan,

Muslim countries that do not have oil are very poor and do not buy much. The ones that have oil buy some stuff buy far less than Western countries do. Muslim countries are economic failures. Your boycott will have little effect.

Bob Badour said at February 7, 2006 9:21 PM:

Khurram Khan where's my apology from you for all the shit in your Qu'ran about cutting off my head and my fingers? What kind of shit is that anyway?

Khurram Khan said at February 8, 2006 3:47 AM:

Mr Bob Badour There is not a single line in Holy Quran regarding cutting of heads and fingers. Not a single line. You have my words for it. This is the propaganda spread by the Governments. Quran teaches peace, respect which you are not observing. I respect you, your elders, your religion and at no cost shall I say anything regarding what you respect for. We human beings are all one. We have same blood in our veins. Two eyes, ears same body shape and everything. The difference is some are white, some are black and some are wheatish. But we have been taught that we should respect mankind. We should respect other religions. We should respect other religions norms. And in return to all this we only demand respect to our religion. Thats it. You know that American bombers have killed so far 64000 Afghans. We are not protesting but we should have. Sir please only respect our religion and our Holy Prophet. That has nothing to do with freedom or freedom of speech. Please give it a thought. You talk about cutting of heads and fingers, I give you an example. Since the 19th century, I believe that America is responsible for most of the deaths on this planet. And the most cruel one's also. It is the only nation that has used Nuclear Bomb and wiped out 200000 in just an hour. In vietnam more than 100000 were killed. In Afghanistan, In Iraq, what are you talking about? This is cruelty or not. America is the only nation which has weapons of mass destruction and has used on record nuclear, biological and chemical bombs all across the earth and killed millions. American CIA also conducts secret operations in which they have also killed millions. On number 2 comes the cruelty of Nazis Germans. They are on number 2 in killing. Their cruelties you know it too well. So sir who is more cruel The Americans and the West or the Muslims. Please dont take me wrong. I did not wanted to hurt anyones feelings but its a fact, a reality that you know too. I am not making this up. And remember we are all one on this planet. Dont become a toy of the propaganda of the Governments. They have their interests. Dont be a slave of the media. Think yourself what is right and what is wrong. Our Governments also says propaganda but we know what is right and what is wrong. In all this paragraph I have not used any abusive language and I will not do so in future as well cause I know what is right and what is wrong. Torah, Zaboor, Bible and Quran are all Holy Books. We should at all times respect them. Moses, Jesus and Muhammed and many others are all Prophets. We all should respect them. Christianity, Islam, Jewism, Buddism, Hinduism and all others are religions. They all are respectful. We should respect eachothers religion. I hope that you understand. Thankyou for your time for reading this.

Bob Badour said at February 8, 2006 4:56 PM:

Here are three translations of AL-ANFAL 12:

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

For the record: Your word now counts for shit.

Here we recognize every individual's freedom of speech and freedom of religion among a number of other basic human rights. We allow everyone these rights insisting only that each individual respect the rights of others. It is your right to publish a religious text with the sort of vile crap that appears above, but you have no right to impose your religious views or mores upon me. I have the right to call the vile crap what it is. If you wish to live under the law of Allah and respect me, return to Islam and allow me my rights. I will not follow you there so you will be safe from my rudeness and free from my disrespect.

I can not and will not respect a politician and cult leader who fucked a nine year old, who robbed and killed people, and who disrespects me. I decline your request as it is my right and I am free to do.


Since the 19th century, I believe that America is responsible for most of the deaths on this planet.

I can only conclude you are ignorant of two centuries of european and asian history.


You ask: Who is more cruel? Islam, by far. Islam has caused suffering upon suffering.


Think yourself what is right and what is wrong

I do, and I insist on my right to express right and wrong. It is wrong to publish shit like the Koranic verse above. It is wrong to fuck a nine year old even within the institution of marriage. It is wrong to burn down an embassy. It is wrong to impose one's religious views upon another. It is wrong to rob and kill.

It is right to protect and preserve the unique and superior values of the west against assault from Islamists.


Torah, Zaboor, Bible and Quran are all Holy Books.

To you. As an atheist, to me, they are at best interesting fantasy. At worst, vile political polemics. There is no way I will ever respect a book that contains Al-Anfal 12.

Moses, Jesus and Mohammed are all looney tunes, "pass the purple coolaid," cult leaders. You and I disagree, and that's perfectly okay.

Despite your protests otherwise, I do not find the base texts of Islam respectful. I do not find muslim denials of the Qu'ran's content respectful either. You talk respect from one side of your mouth while practicing disrespect with the other.

By the way, why did you omit the requirement to respect my religion: atheism?

To Bob Badour said at February 8, 2006 7:57 PM:

The translations are true and stand firm as everything else that is in the Quran. But like a typical prick that you are you didn't put them into the context that they were written. Those passages are for when Muslims are in a state of War e.g. the pathetic muderous, savage crusades!!! In a state of War a Muslim has every right to cut or your full of shit head and your shitty finger tips.

Your just a shit and will always be a shit people like don't deserve the sanctity of a religion. If I remember correctly Child Porn and Child Abuse is a Western product which I'm sure you have been a receiver of. So fuck you and your freedom to shit stab your fellow fucked up freaks in the west!!!!! Atheist.....huh what a load of bollocks, a whole race of people that believe in God just so that an refuse his existance......what a twat. You make me laugh you bunch of pricks, your not the first to try and defile Islam and you won't be the last so shut the fuck up and let us burn and boycott what ever the fuck we want!!! As is our democratic right!!!!!

Fuck you Bitch

To Randall Parker said at February 8, 2006 10:42 PM:

FYI most Muslim countries have oil so they don't have a lot to worry about......The members of EU economies were so bad that they had to band all their wealth together just so they could compete with the international market.

Now your JUST Europe, your don't have a currency, you have no identity therefore you have no economy!!! All the Muslim countries have their own currency and economy regardless of how bad it is and to be quite honest thier not as bad as you wish it would be!!!

After this boycott you will have even less of an economy, so kiss my chaddi's Nazi scum!

(and I can say that because it's "freedom of expression" LOL)

Khurram Khan said at February 9, 2006 1:44 AM:

To Bob Badour,
I dont have to say anymore. I never heard of Atheism but I respect it. And I will not say a single bad word as you have been saying to Islam. Believe me right now I am not ashamful, not angry at all with you. Rather I would pray to Allah

"Please My Lord Dont Punish him on the day of judgement. He is ignorant. Please give him the direction to the truth. May Allah Almighty bless you."

With all do respect Sir, almost 4/5 of the population of this planet follows these books. Now there is a New Entry on the MTV Top 200 Billboard charts "Atheism". Ohhhh God. Anyways I respect it. I could not be able to continue this conversation because your heart has been stamped. I mean blocked or closed even to hear the truth. You people are living in a matrix. A world of your own. You people start from where logic ends.Bye and take care.

ALI said at February 9, 2006 5:31 AM:

TO ALL NON-MUSLIMS
"Please My Lord Dont Punish him on the day of judgement. He is ignorant. Please give him the direction to the truth. May Allah Almighty bless you."

Ruth Sullivan said at February 9, 2006 7:10 AM:

Amazing isn't it how this non-violent peaceful religion is causing so much pain and suffering in this world. Where should I start? With the Chechens, or in Sudan or how about Somalia, never mind Iraq or Iran. We could go all day about Bosnia. These people never quit. It is never enough. They will not stop until they have total control over the world. The silence from mainstream Muslims is deafening. Please stop killing and raping your young girls. Please stop killing people for being homosexual. I will buy as many Danish products as I can. in some small way it is my way of standing for the truth against the lies of Isalm.

LeMonde said at February 9, 2006 7:56 AM:


Mr. Khurram Khan, Mr. Ali and other Muslims (like myself), these people are entitled to their opinion, educated or not. Why do you have to go to their site and bring insults upon us. Just leave them alone if you please. Nothing good can come of this.

Bob Badour said at February 9, 2006 1:53 PM:

Mr. Khan,

"Please My Lord Dont Punish him on the day of judgement. He is ignorant. Please give him the direction to the truth. May Allah Almighty bless you."

Thank you for your prayers. Your ignorance has been duly noted as well. I am quite happy to have you keep all of your delusions, though, as long as you do not try to impose them on anyone else.

I am not sure what you consider logic, but I am a professional logician. I would agree that the works of Boole and Goedel and Codd and Hilbert and Church and Turing and Russell and Whitehead and De Morgan and Leibniz and Lambert start where the mishmash of tautologies and contradictions that is the Qu'ran ends. Actually, to be accurate, logic begins quite some distance past that.


Mr Gaandthari@hotmail.com,

And your point would be?

Bob Badour said at February 9, 2006 2:37 PM:

Mr. LeMonde,

Perhaps you could help me find the tolerant and respectful moderate muslims. Muslims who do not lie about the content of your holy books or your histories. The ones with sufficient respect for others to have intellectual honesty and frank discussion. Thus far, I have only encountered two types of muslims: those who lie and those who disengage. You seem to fall into the latter category.

Where are the muslims who are going to lead Islam into modernity? The muslims who are going to raise Islam to an equal moral footing with the west?

Islam has experienced periods of relative enlightenment. What are you going to do to stop the devolution of your creed?

Yasmine said at February 9, 2006 6:22 PM:

i think u guys all have very little knowledge about Islam .. you only believe what your media show about Islam ... i just want to clarify something important ... at the time of Mohamed in the early islamic days, muslims lived with non-muslims in the land of saudi arabia now and they used to exchange goods and trade together and they lived happy ... no one was getting killed just because he was not muslim as many of you think ...

something else i would really like to say ... our prophit mohamed is not the king of saudi arabia ... he symblizes all the good and pure meanings in our religion ... he is not just a person in our religion and culture ... so drawing a cartoon for sharoon drawning in a cup of blood is totally different than drawing our prophit mohamed ... if the cartoon was about any political or any famous muslim person or a group there wouldn't have been any problem but this person is very special for us and we have to defend him by all and every thing we can, not only because he is special for us but also because this person was really good and these cartoons didn't show his real nature ... trust me if all muslims can take 1% of what that person was, that world would have been a better place ...

and i just want to tell all and every one here that free speech has to be objective not subjective ... so for god sake before you decide that muslims are criminals and islam is the religion of terrorism ... you have to read about islam ... you have to read the quran and uderstand it's meaning ... and you have to read from more than one source ... read our books ... i am muslim and 8 years ago i decided to read the bibble, yes why not ?

i dont think if muslims draw cartoons about jewdism( and here i mean religious wise not political wise) offending it by any mean the world would have consider it as free speech ...

and finally i think that free speech has to be respecting to others (speacially when it comes to senstive subjects) and it has to be objective and not offending to people from other cultures and religion ...


Bob Badour said at February 9, 2006 6:46 PM:

With all due respect, Yasmine, I already read two boxes full of histories and Qu'rans mostly written by muslims.

That is how I know your histories record that Mohammed fucked a nine year old girl whom he married when she was the ripe old age of six. You say Mohammed lived peacefully with non-muslims. Islamic histories also record that he and his men made their living by forming raiding parties to rob people as they passed through the area. The histories also record that Mohammed killed all of the men of the Banu Qurayza and handed out the women to his men.

You say Mohammed symbolizes the good and the pure. Is it good and pure to rape a nine year old girl? Is it good and pure to commit genocide? Is it good and pure for a man to commit adultery?

I consider Mohammed the paradigm of evil and corruption. In the west, you and I can disagree.

You try to explain why you are offended by cartoons of Mohammed. What you fail to understand is I have a right to offend you. Your Qu'ran offends me deeply and profoundly in all of its various forms. And you have the right to offend me with it.

You pretend to ask for respect, but at the same time you lie to me. You do not ask for respect; you demand submission. And you will not have it.

pilchard said at February 11, 2006 5:22 AM:

Thank goodness for such tolerant souls as Khurram Khan! Otherwise we might not realise that Muslims are trying to drag us back to the Dark Ages. Often the opposite of freedom is intolerance, and KK lists his intolerances for all to see. A recipe for creating hell on earth. PLUS he of course invokes divine retribution on us like a good Muslim!

An advert of pre-emptive strikes if ever there was.

pilchard said at February 11, 2006 5:39 AM:

Yasmine, you completely misunderstand the concept of free speech. And I would dispute your assertion that the posters here don't know much about Islam.

Free speech doesn't apply to personal insults/slander - that is (to me anyway) commonsense. The principle of free speech applies to many things which are offensive, as what sort of lunatic would want to ban something that was not offensive.

In the West we see many things said by Muslims which are offensive to us, and certainly more offensive than the cartoons.

S Cost said at February 11, 2006 4:19 PM:

I will buy as many Danish products I can afford. The Danes are a brave people, totally proven in WWII. Muslim bullying threats against Denmark and its citizens for the actions of one of their newspapers is outrageous.

Why should the government of Denmark apologise? Do you ever see Muslim governments apologising when some of their citizens bomb churches, synagogues, Hindu and Buddhist temples? You never see Muslim governments apologising for their citizens making indiscriminate death threats against unarmed, innocent people. They certainly dont apologise when some of their citizens are guilty of kidnapping and murdering aid workers, teachers, peace workers or even children.

When Muslim governments partake in wholesale slaughter, such as in Iraq, Timor, Sudan and even when the world gathers in peace, the Olympic Munich Massacre, Muslim silence is deafening. You will never see Muslim demonstrations against the ruthless terrorist outrages committed against the rest of the world, such as in India, Thailand, Russia, London, Madrid, Nigeria and others, the list is growing all the time.

Muslims exercise their freedom of speech when they burn our flags and effigies of our freely elected leaders, chant death to our countries and insult our way of life. Yet they want to deny ours.

Bob Badour said at February 11, 2006 4:39 PM:

S Cost,

Islam does not want apologies or respect. Islam wants only submission.

Russell Whitaker said at February 12, 2006 3:42 PM:

Blogger "The Dissident Frogman" actively maintains a posting with some very high quality "Support Denmark" graphics in multiple languages (the list of which is growing) such as English, French, Italian, Polish, German, Simplified Chinese, Spanish, and Romanian:

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/001580.html

I recommend downloading and using these banners on our blogs

rim said at February 13, 2006 7:39 PM:

Buy Danish? Is it enough to help Denmark?
We can and we must do more !!

I think that middle eastern boycott of Danish goods is a clear example of ideological black mail through economic means. But it is a non-violent act and, as such , is a legitimate form of protest. Problem is that they are doing this not instead of violent protest but as an addition to violence. Any way, they have right to do that.

How to deal with that?

I DO NOT THINK that “Buy Danish” campaign can seriously change the equation in this situation. If you are buying Danish instead of buying somebody else’s products, therefore somebody else (Switzerland for example) will be hurt by this boycott anyway.

There are few things that could be done in this situation:

1.
I think Danish companies must hold responsible those Danish Imams who started all this outrageous ideological war. How about to sue them? I bet they have money and could be liable in that case. They are subject of Danish law and must be held responsible in this case. Let them pay damages!

2.
Danish people and Europeans must raise the question in the EU about compensating companies like ARLA from money that are going to be part of financial AID to middle eastern countries. Withhold EU and Danish financial aid to countries participating in the boycott. Compensate financial losses of companies damaged by the boycott from those money.

3.
Demand that US will cut financial aid to those countries and establish instead compensational fund for companies damaged by boycott. I am a US taxpayer and I would rather see taxpayer’s $$ will go to ARLA than to support ideological blackmail of middle eastern countries. I will request from my congressmen in USA to cut financial aid to countries that are participating in the boycott and compensate Danish companies instead. If you will do the same thing together we will make a difference.

4.
Put on your websites free advertisements of Danish companies and promote them. For example I never herd before ARLA company, after that I not only know the brand but I will be willing to buy that brand. This situation could be used for increasing of brand recognition of companies like ARLA included in Muslim’s leaflets and forbidden by Muslim governments and imams. ARLA FOODS website; http://www.arlafoods.com/APPL/HJ/HJ202COM/HJ202D01.NSF?Open

5.
And finally …. BOYCOTT all goods from all countries that are participating in the boycott. If in EU and USA nobody will buy Middle Eastern goods we will see who will get more damage.

Main conclusion:
you have to think twice when you are dealing with middle east, they are not reliable trade partners and they will use your trade with them against you when they will need it as a tool of ideological and political blackmail.
http://eastwestplus.blogspot.com/

pilchard said at February 15, 2006 6:19 AM:

I agree totally about boycotting products from these aggressive Muslims countries - but most of them have no economy to speak of!

Jahn Manosh said at February 17, 2006 1:58 PM:

Badour you are fucking knob. all the postings that i have read from you, you hold on to one fucking point. that mohammed fucked a nine year old. grow up you red neck stoner. first of all if you have read the koran, then you will understand that it is not all what the muslims claim it to be, but it is also not what you fucking call it either, dick head.

fucking a nine year old, happens today in your own fucked up society. as far as we know many white americans enjoy this past time. southerns swear by it, and infact not only will do the neighbours 9 year old, will do their own sisters and daughters, so get off this one point, fool. next islam when it was growing went through the conquering stage so murder, raping, pillaging etc etc happened all the time. christianity did it also you numb knuts and the modern day religon of capitalism is still doing it. fucking the world through media manipulated propganda of which you are the biggest loser and sucker to believe all you hear.

dude you are the most fucking stupidiest read person i have ever had the displeasure to run into. bet your mother and father if you know who he is or where he is, since most westerners dont even know their fathers, are proud of you.

dumb ass

Bob Badour said at February 17, 2006 4:23 PM:

Jahn,

Are you defending pedophilia? Are you a muslim? Do you think the innocuous cartoons the Danish newspaper published are more damaging than Mohammed's own historic record?

While I will grant that many an army raped and pillaged in Christ's name, Christ did not leave a religious text instructing them to do so, and they did not emulate Christ when they did it.

Jahn Manosh said at February 17, 2006 5:18 PM:

Bob, no i do not defend child rape you sick fuck. i am reminding you of YOUR ancestory and your people who are still carrying that sick shit on right now. and you keep rabbiting on about mohammed raping a 9 year old over 1400 years ago, as if it was yesterday. get over it and chew another fact, you sound like a frikin broken record. on these blogs youve mentioned it around 15 times. and mohammeds acts were vile, and sick, but no sicker than the church, and that is religon for it, when it expands it fucks the innocent. accept that fact as well you ass. jeez you are an idiot. glad you accept that the christians didnt mind fucking killing women and children in the name of the lord. and christ did not leave the text, but the christians are still out there fucking up perfectly good indiginous tribes, communities with some christian shit, that no one in the so called democratic countries believe, heck not even your sorry ass believes it

so if you do have something to say, let history stay where it is, and go after the islamic morons with shit they do today. all your arguements are historically accurate in some ways, but out of context so i think you are out of your depths. as to my religon it is none of your fucking business. suffice to say, you cannot afford to be an authority on issues you know shit about apart from reading some sick muslims interpretations of the quran. mohammed was not a modern man you dumb ass so you measuring his actions based on todays standards shows your stupidity.

oh and let me say this. the jews killed christ, yet no one is allowed to mention that fucking fact. even fags like you fail to lay the real blame on existing religon where it counts and only hate monger on this backwards religon.

muslims make me sick since they are illiterate, but so called intellectual knob jockeys such as you coming online blogging allday long real fucking drive me up the wall.

dumb asses like Mr Kahn or something coming all soft and girly merely highlight the way islam is. turn the other cheek and shit. but it is the fucking jewish americans and the jewish brits who seem to think they run the fucking world sticking their nose in everything. all i say is stop fucking wish the islamics, they are a sick fucking bunch of people, stop fucking with them since they will fuck you back. my life is affected by the actions of dumb ass politicians and other morons like you. cut this shit out

oh and lastly, Badour what type of fucked up name is that, are you a muslim off the righeous path. lol...i know you are a fucking atheist and dont give me some shit that that is a religon since you bonehead it is not. atheism is for the backwards sick, ungrateful selfish evolution believing futureless muppets who have no passion for life and belief. what ever.

god you make me sick with your arrogant ability to sound good, when all you do is promote hate like the muslims who you villify yourself. you are no better than the ones who you blame and hate

idioy

Bob Badour said at February 17, 2006 7:36 PM:

Jahn,

I don't take moral instruction from any modern pedophile, and I certainly would not object to anyone ridiculing a pedophile in the press.

Muslims, on the other hand, do take moral instruction from a (thieving, murderous, genocidal) pedophile, and they want to take away my freedom of speech and my freedom of the press to prevent anyone from drawing a silly innocuous cartoon of this vile evil man. A vile evil man who could not possibly receive any harm from the cartoon because he has been dead for 1400 years.

My name comes from Canada. However, since I reject all forms of tribalism, I would have to say it is just the name I have.

stop fucking with them since they will fuck you back. my life is affected by the actions of dumb ass politicians and other morons like you. cut this shit out

You, sir, are a coward. Your cowardice will only encourage the violent and the abusive to your own detriment and to the detriment of those near you.

vildan said at February 18, 2006 10:32 AM:

i want to say something to all who says anything about Islam muslims and our Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
I dont need to prove anything to any of those who are deaf dumb and blind but i just want to say you believe or not. Islam doesnt need me or my support but i need Islam in order to breathe. And Islam is a religion so beautiful that you cant understand what it offers to people. If someone-justly- thinks about Islam he/she surely find the truth. The truth that explains life. I tried it. Tried to look at what it says. And i saw that every single thing is for humans to live like "humans" . If someone just asks him/herselfs the lifes meaning and if someone insists on finding the truth i believe in that Allah will Lead he/she to Islam. You dont know our prophet you dont know how kind he was you dont know how merciful he was. How honest he was. How brave he was. How generous he was. My only dream is that one day
being able to see him. my wish is that walking on his way. My only wish is that being amongst those whose he called"My Ummah" I am just living for those. I havent got any other reason to live. When i saw the person who i thought a frank muslim that made my life difficult to live without being a real muslim. I learnt all good things i know from our Holy prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) i would eaily kill myself i found myself so unmeaningful that i didnt want to live anymore. But he gave me a reason to live. Now i am not searching for happines i find something more than happiness and i am praying every time for not to lose what i have found Insallah.
Hatice Vildan Topaloğlu /Turkey

Bob Badour said at February 18, 2006 2:27 PM:
Islam is a religion so beautiful that you cant understand what it offers to people

I don't consider pedophilia, murder, theft, rape and genocide beautiful, and those are the things I find in the base texts of Islam. Are you saying you cannot breathe without pedophilia, murder, rape and theft? Do you find these things beautiful?

If someone-justly- thinks about Islam he/she surely find the truth

And if the truth is Islam's base texts promote all manner of vile filth, is that the truth you want us to find?

you dont know how kind he was

Tell that to the women he raped, to the merchants he killed and to the Banu Qurayza. He was kind to himself and nobody else.

You dont know our prophet

I know him well enough, and I don't like him at all. He was vile scum. In terms of the Sira, do you believe Mohammed and his men murdered the Banu Qurayza and handed their women among themselves? Do you believe Mohammed and his men went on raiding parties to kill travellers and divide the stolen merchandise a la Al-Anfal? Do you believe Mohammed married a six year old Aisha? Or do you reject the entire content of the base texts of your religion?

I havent got any other reason to live

I find it very sad you have nothing to live for except some fantasy about a murdering, raping, thieving genocidal pedophile. In fact, I find your statements so at odds with what I found in the base texts of Islam that I wonder whether you have suffered a psychotic break from reality.

Jahn Manosh said at February 18, 2006 3:03 PM:

hey bobby, a few points you failed to mention. since i know commend your shit, as a fucking authority on the ills of islam. i bow down to your fucking prowess of only repeating the shit about islam. and how you so fuckin beauifully circumvent the good. nice one knob jockey, pure fucking genius. ok onto a few questions i asked. the west is on a fucking moral down shift. no marraiges last. we fucking marry to get divorced, we fuck around, drink in excess fucking rape murder rob and do mug old people. fucking sell drugs and all that, and ontop of all that, america peddles porn to every fucking nation there is. it sells propganda based tv soaps to every fucked up country and you sir and the product of all that crap called media manipulation since you can only quote crap that detracts from any small fucking good that may come out of islam. you keep quoting 'more ham head' as a pedophiliac, genodical, maniacal whoring hippie with an innate ability to create some heavy shit that billions follow today blindly. fucking christ man you are a whole, and utter waste of human flesh.

sing another song, change the fucking record and bring up some new shit. i have now seen your sorry ass on a whole bunch of these blogs and you keep repeating the same shit to every sad fucking muslim brave enough to show their sorry illiterate asses on here.

so i wonder who is have a psychotic break from reality since it seems your sorry butt smoked one too many crash smokes. hey and before i go, no i am not a muslim, i hate them illiterate fucks as well, but your arguement makes me think you are no better than them. you just try to cover up your hate with big words and fuckign links to other sick fucks like yourself. darn you are good.....at nothing

Bob Badour said at February 18, 2006 3:37 PM:
no marraiges last...we fucking marry to get divorced...we fuck around

Where are your facts? Do you have any facts to back up your hand-waving condemnations?

fucking rape murder rob and do mug old people fucking sell drugs and all that, and ontop of all that, america peddles porn to every fucking nation there is

Horseshit. It sounds like you have been listening to some fantasy concocted by an anti-american propaganda machine. Where are your facts?

you sir and the product of all that crap called media manipulation since you can only quote crap that detracts from any small fucking good that may come out of islam

I quote the Hadith and the Qur'an. Are they crap? Are you saying that--whatever good may come out of Islam--the good is small? Can you point me to where anyone in the major media suggests people actually read the Hadith and the Qur'an? While I perceive media manipulation, I perceive exactly the opposite: that the media discourage people from looking for themselves by publishing happy reassurances quoted out of context and with the most liberal translations.

sing another song, change the fucking record and bring up some new shit

The song as you call it has been playing in the same religious texts for 1200 or more years. It doesn't change, and that cuts to the heart of the problem.

The west found peace and tolerance through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. The west reformed Christianity by rejecting the political dogma of the priesthood and by embracing the literal meaning of the New Testament.

If Islam is to reform a la the west, it has to do exactly the opposite. It must reject the literal meaning of the base texts of the faith and embrace modern political dogma. Even if Islam does that, the base texts are going to act like a magnet drawing some percentage back to violence and intolerance.

Jahn Manosh said at February 19, 2006 3:04 AM:

Hey BB, im sure that your an complete socially inept moron. you avoid anything realistic. all you do is claim to have read shit on islam. the truth is that muslims are still stuck in the fucking dark ages. islamaphobia spreading is now considered a national sport with fuck nuts like you holding on to two of three fucking facts and spreading shit, creating more problems for the fucking world. listen dumb ass jesus was a fucking hippie shagging around and high on local shit doing his thing also. and numb nuts who followed him also killed raped pillaged and defiled to grow the christian cult. islamics are no fucking different get over it

stop claiming that islam is any worse than any other organised mass society controlling machine. without religon there would be fucking anarchy, yet all religon is to stop the masses to turning into ballless pathetic socially incompatiable boneheads like you. more over without the concept of god, allah or buddha there would be anarchy and a free for all, since there would be no price to pay after death for the shit you do to others. apart from a social price which would be jail or death assuming you got caught.

so religon does to a certain aspect keep society inline, and islam has harsh infact over the fucking top guidelines how to behave with thy neighbour etc. you claim to have read about islam and forget fucking mohammed for a minute but dont forget that that guy did deliver some powerful socially perfect and peace promoting shit as well, which your fucking mental attitude seems to overlook every fucking time

all you do is spread more hate, and in the name of freedom of speech, well big fuckig whoopee doo. what ever bobski, you are no good to society and you are a whole waste of space. you promote gambling which is any fucking religon is wrong even in the aethistic crap that you supposedly believe in. at the end of the day bob, i have read most of your contributions and they are all the fucking same. as i said before islam is changin at a slow pace, and no amount of world pressure is going to expedite that fucking process but i assure you, shitheads like you will only slow the pace, when you make people resort to the original texts and stick to them, so well done your cretin

Jahn Manosh said at February 19, 2006 3:35 AM:

and let me say one more thing. fucking a nine year old, in that time, place and in that camel jockey society was an acceptable practice. did you hear me, fucking a nine year old back then in that place was an ACCEPTABLE thing. so hey fuck face, if it WASNT the mindless IQ deficient sword swinging bearded nappy headed arabs would have hacked him to pieces in minutes, BUT your sorry ass forgets that cultures and traditions were different back then. and before you come back with me promoting that shit, STOP. I am not. All i am saying is that if you do not want to believe what that fucking arab said, fair play. but dont make him into a child molester based on TODAYS standards. God you are an ass.

So if you have any FRESH, and NEW come backs apart from the pathetic rants that you keep doing on ALL these blogs, I want to hear them. Islam was promoted by a man, who at that time was perfect for that social setting for those times. IF he wasnt then people would not voluntarily follow him. So butt breath, re-read your shit and realise that Islam is the most powerful religon today and is growing. the insane mind controlling effects of islam is spreading and hate mongers such as you and also christian propoganda machines are only bringing a confrontation to the forefront.

let me leave you with one more thought. if the christians and muslims go to an all out war, which side do you think is gonna win. the paid soliders who are doing this for a job, or fucking mindless nappy heads who are doing this for no monetary retribution but for the grace of allah and for heaven and all that pussy that is promised to them after death. yes, so keep promoting your ignorant shit.

god you are the stupidiest unrepresentation of a man i have ever come across in my life. you are a joke

Bob Badour said at February 19, 2006 6:54 AM:
[Mohammed] did deliver some powerful socially perfect and peace promoting shit as well

Really? What facts do you have to back up that wild assertion?

you promote gambling

Do I? That's a stretch.

shitheads like you will only slow the pace

Are you saying that appeasement and ignorance will quicken the pace?

fucking a nine year old, in that time, place and in that camel jockey society was an acceptable practice

Actually, if you read the Sira carefully, you will find evidence that it was not all that acceptable and that Mohammed had to actively promote it to some of his followers. Regardless, raping a nine year old--even within the institution of marriage--is wrong. It always was wrong.

If you want to take moral guidance from someone who rapes nine year olds, then you take moral guidance from an evil man.

Islam was promoted by a man, who at that time was perfect for that social setting for those times

Am I to understand that your idea of moral perfection is murder, rape, thievery, pedophilia and genocide?

IF he wasnt then people would not voluntarily follow him

What makes you think it was voluntary? If it was voluntary, why would he need to use murder and genocide?

Islam is the most powerful religon today and is growing

Really? A billion of the world's poorest, illiterate, ignorant and backward people are the most powerful? As of 2003, a single Christian nation used 23% of the energy consumed by the whole world, and altogether Christian dominated nations used 64%. Islamic nations used less than 13%. Data from spreadsheet found at the Energy Information Adminstration

Islam is not powerful -- it's pathetic.

bringing a confrontation to the forefront

I disagree. Those who deny the facts put us on a collision course for conflict. Instead of focussing on the Danish cartoons, we should be holding Saudi Arabia's feet to the fire for the propaganda they spread that started the violence. Likewise for Syria.

Right now, a few cynical tyrants are playing the west as a big stupid fool, and it's working. They will keep doing too as long as it works for them. We need to make it stop working, and the way to do that is by educating ourselves and basing our reactions on reality.

if the christians and muslims go to an all out war, which side do you think is gonna win

The west will win without question. Professional soldiers took Iraq in a matter of a few days. Just imagine if they were allowed to bomb and shoot at the locals.

It will get really bloody in the civil wars to remove the muslims from the west. The more we invite here beforehand, the bloodier it will get.

Randall Parker said at February 19, 2006 7:55 AM:

Jahn Manosh,

If I take this claim here at face value:

and let me say one more thing. fucking a nine year old, in that time, place and in that camel jockey society was an acceptable practice. did you hear me, fucking a nine year old back then in that place was an ACCEPTABLE thing.

then that is all the more reason to reject a religion founded by an ancient "camel jockey society". Their norms are primitive and cruel to me. I do not want people in my society who believe in a text that promotes such primitive and oppressive beliefs.

Jahn Manosh said at February 19, 2006 5:53 PM:

God the pair of you are both nuts. I have not said, I accept that practice and or even condone it. But prove to me with your links Badour that marrying girls off at the age of 6+ was not a tradition back then. I think it is vile and sick, but you cannot deny the fact it was common practice. dont give me no shit that it wasnt. if you do say that then it is you just making shit up. this practice is still common in india even today, but you dont seem to be fretting about that.

all i am trying to say, is that badour seems to hold on to this one fact, in all his fucking rants. come up with something fresh other than this shit, youve said it, weve heard it..move on. oh and furthermore. arabs today still partake in marrying heaps of times with young girls, excuse me but the west does not seem to give a shit about that.

again, listen to this, back then it was a common practice, and by no means does it conflict with islam. anyway enough. you are a pair of sad fools for dancing around your own handbags about the same shit.

fact you have nothing new to say, which is what i keep asking for. you just keep making the same fucking point. islam maybe archaic and stuck in the dark ages, but hey its a problem for the west, and so it is a problem for me. i have to live through this shit, you guys are creating.

Jahn Manosh said at February 19, 2006 5:56 PM:

I WORTE: ...... [Mohammed] did deliver some powerful socially perfect and peace promoting shit as well
YOU REPLIED: ... Really? What facts do you have to back up that wild assertion?

Yes Badour, you claim to have read the fucking quran, read it again you dumb shit. its in their pages and pages of harmonious crap about love thy neighbour, and dont ask me for a link, since your sorry ass should have read it with your eyes open. God you are just a nut who likes to hear his own voice, repeat the same shit again and again. dont you ever get tired of banging on the same drum. fool

Bob Badour said at February 19, 2006 7:18 PM:

Who cares whether it was a tradition? Fucking a nine year old is wrong. It is immoral. It is rape.

you cannot deny the fact it was common practice

I have no idea how common it was, and neither do you. The Sira suggest that it was not exactly common as at least one of Mohammed's men thought the idea of fucking children was strange--at least until Mohammed turned him onto it.

dont ask me for a link

Making wild and ignorant assertions about what is in the Qur'an won't make that stuff magically appear there. The Qur'an is full of curses and violence. If you think it has any redeeming passages, produce them.

excuse me but the west does not seem to give a shit about [modern muslims fucking children]

The west very much gives a shit, which is why muslims have to cling so desperately to denial. I am trying to open the eyes of westerners to what is really going on. Thank you for confirming that many muslims continue to rape children having learned their morals from the perfect paradigm: a murdering raping thieving genocidal pedophile. Will you confirm that muslims would like to fuck children in the west and would like to impose sharia on us all to satisfy their perversions?

back then it was a common practice, and by no means does it conflict with islam

I disagree. I do not believe raping children was common before Mohammed set the example. The fact that it does not conflict with Islam is the whole point. Raping children is evil. Islam's base texts are evil as was Mohammed.

iambt said at February 19, 2006 8:33 PM:

bob,
u mentioned in your reply: " The fact that I provide a link to Michael Savage says nothing about me at
all. It is one of the few places I found that provides information about multiple beheadings of non-muslims by muslims. Where do you think all these different muslims got the idea to hack off people's heads?"
ok...
do you know that jesus orderd his followers to forgive the sinners? why do you think that all these different christians still have hate crimes, murders, revenge crimes? do you know that jesus prohibitted adultery? why do you think that 95% of the christians in the world committed adultery? what about same sex marriage? in usa some churches even granted same sex marriage!!!! what if muslims will begin a campain agaisnt the "christan religion" claiming that jesus orderd his followers to be gay and lesbians?! but no, we know that these are individual opinions that don't represent christianity, even if it's the pope's opinion. again can you beleive jesus asking his men to be gay?! ewwwww. no way.
what can you say about that?! you can accept a guy fucking another but can't accept a man marrying -and not just fucking- a 9 year old, 1500 years ago, where alot have changed in cultures and even in our biology?!!!

iambt said at February 19, 2006 8:37 PM:

bob,
u still keep telling me that i'm right about you. every time you use a document, you use one from someone who's against the islamic religion. what d'u expect him to say?!you need to read the sira and the quran with their explanation but from a muslim who is also a non extremist.
you must read both sides of the story and build your opinion after that. i'm sure u'll say "i already did, and i can't get out of my head that he married a 9 year old" let me ask you a question, did you live in their time? who told you that in that time a 9 year old isn't mature enough? i told you that she was engaged b4 him, does that mean that all the men were pedophiles?! can you beleive that someone who wanted the people to follow him and respect him would do such thing to disgrace himself?! OR AT LEAST HE COULD'VE DONE IT IN SECRET. i don't know pedophiles who announce their gayness in public in such way even in this time where you can attend a "same sex marriage" ceremonies.
can you imagine the picture you are trying to draw here: "hey guy i'm muhammad the messenger of god, i'm here to teach you the right things, but pardon me, i'm a pedophile"
why the pedophile "crime" was just mentioned centuries after his death?! why can't you find one of the kuffar in muhammad's time saying "don't follow that pedophile bastard".
did you read any historic events about the region where muhammad was born, i mean before he was born to see if marrying a 9 year old was just something normal?! or you just think about the nice 9 year old neighbour you meet on your way to work.

iambt said at February 19, 2006 8:38 PM:

bob,
again you amaze me how you mix things up. what's the holy ground and the holy month have to do with you saying that he killed passerbyes or innocent merchants?! it's either you or your sources or it's just maybe that you think maybe if you find two verses in the same chapter they have to be related or something.
read my post again ...i said "muhammad never got to abusufian's caravan, so how come he killed the merchants =))))
abu sufian went back to recruit 1000 of his best men (ARMY) to fight muhammad who -in that time- couldn't gather more than 300 men to fight back. and no one in his situation (weak, poor, outnumberred by the enemy) never would have start a war. would one?

Jahn Manosh said at February 20, 2006 1:54 AM:

Bob, Get a fucking life. The only links you supply are to extremist shithead hate mongering fuck nuts such as yourself. And further more enough about Mohammed the child raper. Got you the thickest shit any one has ever produced. Speak (which involves talking, incase your sorry geeky ass has forgotten how to do that, since we know you can read and type) to any muslim in any authority in any capacity and they will confirm that back 1500 years ago, and only till recently the middle east fathers would marry their daughters off at an extremely young age. one of the reason was that girls were considered a liability and hence if they are married off, that is one less mouth to feed, remember dumb ass there was no oil riches in those days. anyway muslims today dont condone that, and back then it was an acceptable practice.

now listen here shit breath, you are judging a man who lived 1400 years ago for doing something that was common 1400 years ago, against todays standards. now if you cant get that in to your thick four eyed one track half brain then you are a a genuine retard.

I am going to ask you one last time, is there anything else, and i mean anything else you have to come up with about islam other than this child rape shit, that you post on every blog, or are you only a trick pony. god you are a fucking joke.

let me also say this. muslims today are ignorant shits. the arabs couldnt have done shit without the british. today the arabs are only interested in sex and cars. those fucking nappy heads couldnt build shit, or pool a small percentage of their financial resources to help the poorer arabs. and there are countries like japan who have to import 97.5% raw materials into their own country and they are producing some seriously brilliant kit.

point is as we say, the arabs couldnt arrange a piss up in a brewery (pardon the pun)..LOL..anyway bob you are no better than the people you diss. since you are full of hate and discontent. no wonder your sorry ass finds fault in every religon and you now have to sit on the fence. atheist my ass. thats just another word for a gutless, beliefless, souless loser who hasnt the capacity to believe in anything. see i can say that since that is true. faith is something that makes one love and care. your aethistic shit makes you a resentful little man, since the islamic jokers are misguided as they maybe they have something you will never have and that is faith. i am now waiting for something refreshing and new from you stupid ass, but i suppose i had better not hold my breath, since no doubt nothing i have written will have sunk into that over worked little mind of yours.

Bob Badour said at February 20, 2006 6:00 AM:
The only links you supply are to extremist shithead hate mongering fuck nuts such as yourself

I would not go quite as far as calling Allah or Mohammed an extremist shithead hate mongering fuck nut, but I suppose that's not too far off the mark.

anyway muslims today dont condone [child marriages]

Why then did Khomeini drop the legal age for marriage to 9 for girls shortly after seizing power in Iran?

I really see no point in denying the content of Islam's base texts or the influence they have in modern Islam.

you are judging a man who lived 1400 years ago for doing something that was common 1400 years ago, against todays standards.

I disagree. Raping children has always been wrong. There have always been fucking perverts like Mohammed and the Marquis de Sade, but raping children has always been wrong.

Even murderers and thieves consider it so wrong prisons have to place child rapists in protective custody.

since you are full of hate and discontent

What makes you say that? I am not the one spewing racial epithets. You are. Is it possible you project your own flaws and weaknesses onto me?

maybe they have something you will never have and that is faith

As a lifelong devout atheist, I have unshakable faith that no God exists. Perhaps you fail to comprehend the nature of faith.

Shem said at February 20, 2006 8:21 AM:

Bob, Since you sit on your mound of shit, you can throw stones at all religons at your own free will, Islam being the one to recieve nearly all your slurs at present. Also since you have no faith, and dont give me the sad excuse that you have faith that there is no god, since all you do is 'play on words' I have read most of your contributions on here, and it seems you have an innate ability to piss people off. As a psychologist, I can only imagine you to be a dream candidate for analysis since initial impressions of your ability to rile, profess and stir show you to be quite the problem child I imagine you to be. Clearly some fundamental unresolved issues in your past and present allow for this overtly calm cool demeanor underwhich I feel a cold hatred and desire to kill all those who oppose your lack of belief structure.

Bob, as a mere observer and not a contender in these bouts of mental anguish I would say, seek help with some of your issues. Overall it will add depth to you ability to relate to others in your real life. As Mr Manosh is also a prime candidate for a heart attack of which I feel you will be responsible since you dont half know how to upset the masses.

Bob Badour said at February 20, 2006 2:01 PM:
you can throw stones at all religons at your own free will

I don't throw stones at all religions, and I have no intention to. If you don't like what the base texts of Islam say about its perfect paradigm of morality, chastise the base texts or the perfect paradigm.

Also since you have no faith

Are you really that ignorant? I am not agnostic. I am a lifelong devout atheist. I have stronger faith than any muslim, christian or jew I have ever encountered.

As a psychologist ... cold hatred and desire to kill all those who oppose your lack of belief structure

If you are a psychologist, Shem, you must understand the phenomenon of projection. Thank you for revealing your true thoughts and feelings. Please consider taking your own prescription.


I don't suppose you have anything substantive to offer to the discussion. Do you?

Shem said at February 20, 2006 5:14 PM:

Darling Bob, I have nothing substantive to offer to this discussion, since nothing is actually being discussed. All I see is a predjudicial mildly literate bigot trying to project his views in a highly non-conclusive fashion, whilst trying to make himself feel good. Do I want to be a part of that. No. Bob your corrosive approach to Islam albeit you may have some valid points to raise are overe shadowed by your obvious discontent of todays muslims. You actually believe that Islam as a religon is a terrorist breeding ground, so clearly there is no point discussing anything. You have created the perfect goldfish bowl environment for yourself since the mugs come to you as bait. You and your friend Randall merely prey on emotionally charged bait who happen to come here to express their personal views. You merely rattle off your rehearsed lines to everyone of them, they cuss and leave and you feel victorious again in your little world. nice little set up you and randall have got going. enjoy it

Bob Badour said at February 20, 2006 5:20 PM:
You actually believe that Islam as a religon is a terrorist breeding ground

Can anyone believe otherwise? It's quite apparent that Islam breeds terrorists. The questions are: Why does Islam breed so many terrorists? What, if anything, can be done to eradicate the scourge of terrorism?

Nothing will be done as long as muslims protect the terrorists and their sponsors through denial and character assassination.

Jahn Manosh said at February 21, 2006 1:41 AM:

Terrorist: One who uses unlawful force to coherce the established controlling authority.

A fucking controlling states definition. Here's mine. Terrorist: One who is quashed, trampled on and or not heard by the controlling overbearing group, so the terrorist feels s/he has nothing to lose but to lash out. You fucking dickheads create the situation where terrorists are borne. Excuse me for fucking breathing for a minute but where were these fucking terrorists 30 years ago. well to be fair around then the west would not stick its fucking nose in every bodies fucking business. today you have the likes of the americans, brits, jews and any other frog or kraut sticking their paws in any nations business the prefer, hence the illiterate muslims will resort to the basic neaderthal action called defence of their own, through violence.

terrorism is a ploy to get the world on edge to create a situation where the masses populi demand change and protection. by creating an evil you create the desire for change and for protection. this allows for the state to bring in laws and controlling measures which would never in another situation be allowed to see the light of day. islamic terrorists are easy to ignite since they have no desire to debate and or listen they are emotion driven so you will always ensure that they will frighten and scare, do damage on demand.

once the big brother type of changes are in place and the states have all their big brother sort of laws in place, where the state will have enough controlling measures in place to control their own people, there will be no need for the enemy, hence measures will be taken to reduce the provocation, thereby reducing the need for the terrorists to lash out. this will happen in the years to come.

my point is simple. the terrorist situation is one that was created in order for governments to make the changes they feel they want to in order to control their own people, more cameras, id cards, dna testing etc etc etc. right now the masses are demanding protection from terrorists so these measures can be brought in with little or no fight from the civil liberty groups.

anyway at the end of the day, the terrorism drum that the US beats will fall silent only when the american agenda of state/global control will be complete, and then the world should resort back to a milder version of calm. my opinion, and if you dont like it, stick it up your ass and smoke it.

oh and again the real loser in this situation is not the arabs, since there are millions and millions of them, and they can always breed more, no matter how many america kills, the real loser is the person in the democratic countries since it is their civil liberties and their rights that are really being trampled on, and as yet no one sees it. so who are the real morons.

Shem said at February 21, 2006 3:10 AM:

Darling Bob, One point I will make is simple. I cannot help but feel your ever present feeling of inadequacy. its as if you employ such passion in what you say, and dare I say i feel you are compensating for something else lacking in your life. It's as if you want to believe in god, but so much you have read and experienced tell you that there is no god. But deep inside your subconcious I think you are dying to believe that there is something. And hey, fair do's darling. Anyway when you see all the people in the world who have blind faith, and you do not have that ability, then some emotions must be brewing.

Anyway hun, it's ok, you continue this fight. Remember there are alot of people who believe in everything you say. For me though. I feel entertained when you manage to catch a little fly in your web, and to see you spin that cocoon around it, ever so skillfully that you make them angry so they end up leaving after sharing profanities. You are a skillful, cunning and very rehearsed little man. And I applaud your efforts alongside your friend Randalls for making this little circus what it is.

Oh, and before I go. Mr Manosh (indian man) is never the less the biggest fly in your elaborate charadesque trap. He just seems so full of life. When do you intend on sinking your teeth into him. x

Jahn Manosh said at February 24, 2006 1:48 AM:

Hello Shem. You are right. Bob Badour, is now refraing from contributing to this blog, since his game has been sussed. He cannot say anything to defend his little playtime exercise with any proper comeback so he has now maintained silence. Just like a loser, I see no one else has posted on here as well. Ah well, the truth always wins, and the weak get egg on their faces, whether they believe or not believe. LOL

Randall Parker said at February 24, 2006 4:09 PM:

Jahn Manosh,

Bob is busy for a couple of days but he'll be back.

He's made lots of points you've ignored though. So I do not see what the point would be in making further responses when arguing with the faithful. Trying to use reason to argue with faith is a waste of time. Strongly held faith is immune to reason and evidence.

Bob Badour said at February 25, 2006 6:47 PM:

Jahn,

where were these fucking terrorists 30 years ago

Mostly in the middle-east. 30 years ago, Khomeini was seizing Iran. The Islamic Brotherhood has been active for at least a century--perhaps longer. Arafat was killing Americans 40 years ago. Oslo encouraged lots of additional terrorist groups to spring up, but Islam has been full of them for a very long time.

Shem,

I cannot help but feel your ever present feeling of inadequacy

Of course you cannot help it. You are projecting it. Own it. It's yours.

who have blind faith, and you do not have that ability

What are you yammering on about? I have blind faith that there is no god. None whatsoever. My faith has been under constant attack from folks who have some deep-seated need to be coddled by a supreme being, and my faith has held fast.

Remember there are alot of people who believe in everything you say

I encourage everyone to verify for themselves what the base texts of Islam actually say.

Bob Badour said at February 25, 2006 8:57 PM:

P.S. I don't plan at this time to return to this thread. It has scrolled entirely from the main page of Randall's blog. If someone posts something new and has any interest in what I might say, email me the link to the thread with a tickler to come read what's new.

Abdul Qureshi said at February 26, 2006 7:03 AM:

Randall, It is fair bob has made alot of points. i have not ignored them. i simply feel they are the questions of the lost man who is on the path of a hell that he does not even accept or believe in. more to the point. his faith in ignorance leaves him firm in his position that all religon is man made hence he can explain it a million and one ways why he is justified in his ignorance. i cannot help a man who is ignorant to recognise the reality of god as you said strongly held faith is immune to reason and evidence. but i say strongly accepted ignorance is like a black shroud covering your sight, so you cannot see anything but darkness.

i wonder how it must feel knowing and believing that all that you are, is all that you will ever be. once you die, your existence will amount to nothing more than a mere blip in time.

as another really decent atheist once said to me, abdul we are all 'reconstituted stardust' recycled again and again for ever and ever. i laughed and said, fine, so explain how did this all start and more to the point how will it all finish? when will all this end. and the atheist shrugged his shoulders and said i dont know and i dont care. shame that such intelligence and determination is misplaced.

Randall Parker said at February 26, 2006 8:42 AM:

Abdul,

But speaking as an agnostic it seems to me you demonstrate why people have faith in religions: They want to believe they are immortal. To think otherwise is, yes, a really depressing and dismal thought. But it is very important to distinguish between what you want to be true and you know to be true. People who believe things on faith do not know the truth. If they did then there'd be no need for faith.

As for Bob's points: He's quoting from your religion's base texts. That's not a demonstration of ignorance. It is a demonstration of more knowledge about Islam than most Muslims have (and most Christians do not understand their own religion's base texts either and so by saying this I'm not trying to pick on Islam's believers alone on this score).

Abdul Qureshi said at February 27, 2006 3:45 AM:

Randall, wanting immortality and knowing it to be truthfully is not the question. faith in the afterlife for a person who follows islam is a certainty. i cannot even shed any doubt on the certainty of that nor do i intend on making it as so, since more core belief and every fibre in my body says there is an afterlife and one must take into account the actions of now in the afterlife, you know what i mean.

my problem with bob, is not the point that he questions. it is only he questions with a pre-decided answer already in his mind. he does not even need to ask most of the questions since he already has established his position. moreoverly he asks with undertones of riling the reader as if he is blaming islam for all the ills i have gone, reread most of bobs interactions and he comes across as an angry man. with you i feel calm and a sense of stability in your belief and i do not feel the need to convert and or make you belief. a discussion is all any rational people want.

if bob is as read as he seems he is, he will know that muhammed was not all the way he makes him out to be. why does he lie about some of his position. the child rape situation is not even an issue with any real muslim. this has nothing to do with the way child marraiges are looked on today. it is sick to even consider a man and a child in any nation today. but the real unacceptable or acceptable fact is that arabs or old, indians or today and other muslim nations did practice in child marraiges. and this is a real fact that any scholar will reveal. now for a person to be judged on that today makes for an irrational position. secondly islam did spread by the sword, but so did all other confirmed religons. in islam the non believers not in war were taxed to remain in their faiths. they were not indiscriminately killed. the quresh who revered mohammed for over 40 years were also the ones that converted although elements chose not to.

lastly agreed i am not as read as bob is on islam, his angle to obtain knowledge is to find fault and to share that with the world. my knowledge of islam although not as much as bobs is based on making my belief even more secure and more firm. so our intentions on learning about islam are fundamentally different. and again lastly randall, you will agree with this.

two people reading the same information can draw two different conclusions if their end objectives are different. bob learns to create doubt, i amongst millions of muslims learn about islam to make our beliefs stronger. so there will always be a divide.

bobs harsh approach to revealing his learned knowledge only aggravates and makes one angrey, he enflames. no one will follow in bobs research since it may poke holes in ones belief, if read the way bob reads it.

so if bob wants to make an impact with any muslim, he needs to soften his approach, and sell his position as a real genuine learned conclusion and i assure you more muslims will read his research and either support his conclusions or come back to him with their perspectives. anyway thank you for the forum and i know fundamentally we are away from the real subject of this discussion, but thank you again

Bob Badour said at February 27, 2006 2:01 PM:

Why, oh why, do I let myself get drawn back in?

he will know that muhammed was not all the way he makes him out to be

Hitler played with his nieces and nephews and was kind and generous to some children. He also murdered millions of people including scads of innocent kids.

Do you honestly think anything about Mohammed can redeem a murdering rapist, thief and genocidal pedophile?

why does he lie about some of his position.

I do not lie about any of my position. Hundreds of millions of muslims simultaneously believe all of the following: 1) Mohammed fucked a nine year old girl, 2) Mohammed committed acts of genocide, and 3) Mohammed is the paradigm of perfect morality.

They get those beliefs from the base texts of your faith. Raping a nine year old girl even within the institution of marriage is wrong. It has always been wrong. Genocide is wrong. It has always been wrong. If one accepts the first two beliefs, Mohammed was immoral in spite of what hundreds of millions of muslims believe about the third.

it is only he questions with a pre-decided answer already in his mind

You are wrong. I approached Islam with an open mind. I found my answers regarding Islam in its base texts and by observing Islam itself. The base texts answered for me exactly why Islam is primitive, brutish, backward, violent, and so totally screwed up.

I ask the questions I ask because muslims and the west are so totally in denial of the obvious answers to them.

If you had anything resembling intellectual honesty, you would answer my questions honestly and without fear. Why do you fear my questions? Or more correctly: Why do you fear the answers to my questions?

the child rape situation is not even an issue with any real muslim.

Is Khomeini a real muslim? Is he or was he not a widely respected islamic scholar and religious leader? If child rape is not an issue, why did Khomeini reduce the minimum age in Iran for girls to marry to 9 almost as soon as he took power?

If the leaders of Iran took Mohammed at face value regarding child rape, why shouldn't we assume they will do the same regarding genocide?

it is sick to even consider a man and a child in any nation today.

Is Khomeini sick? I think he is a sick, perverted twisted psycho just like Mohammed. But do you think he is sick? How many muslims think he is a respectable scholar and religious leader?

now for a person to be judged on that today makes for an irrational position

Today, we are talking about demands to take away my rights to free speech and to a free press. Those demands come from muslims who claim Mohammed, the child fucking murderer, is so revered we must not allow anyone to draw an innocuous caricature of the man.

I think it is perfectly rational to value my rights to free speech and to a free press over the sensibilities and reputation of a child fucking murderer who has been dead for 1400 years.

If you want anyone to accept you as a modern, rational, tolerant person, you need to come here to defend my rights to free speech and to a free press. You need to convince your coreligionists that they commit evil when they demand I lose my rights. You need to start demonstrating intellectual honesty and all other forms of honesty.

Today, we are facing networks of organized Islamic terrorists who hack the heads off innocent people and kill innocents indiscrimately. It is your responsibility as a muslim to put an end to that behaviour. If you do not, you will one day face the consequences of your failure to act.

lastly agreed i am not as read as bob is on islam

In other words, you argue from a position of ignorance for a continuation of ignorance while defaming me as ignorant.

How exactly do you think that will resolve the apparent conflict between Islam and other cultures? How exactly do you think that will end terrorism?

so if bob wants to make an impact with any muslim, he needs to soften his approach

Muslims are none of my concern. I want to make an impact on those around me whom the muslims would enslave.

It's neither my goal nor my responsibility to turn muslims into humane and decent people who can live peacefully with the rest of modernity. That's for muslims to do.

In the meantime, the rest of us need to understand just how inhumane and indecent the typical muslim really is. From my perspective, you are only here to demonstrate the dishonest and conniving means the typical muslim will use in the pursuit of Jihad.

And I should add: You are doing a bang-up job. Thank you!

Bob Badour said at February 27, 2006 2:15 PM:

P.S.

islam did spread by the sword, but so did all other confirmed religons

With all due respect, Christianity spread from the other end of the sword. The early Christians conquered Rome by bleeding on the Coliseum floor. We need to put an end to the lies, denials and platitudes the Jihadists and Marxists use.

Since Abdul is so clearly lying above regarding Christianity, I think it appropriate we demand Abdul prove his statement regarding the other major faiths like Buddhism and Hinduism.

Abdul, what factual evidence do you have to support the statement that Buddhism spread by the sword? Hinduism?

Randall Parker said at February 27, 2006 4:34 PM:

Abdul,

Your statement:

every fibre in my body says there is an afterlife

But lots of people are completely, totally, and utterly certain about all sorts of things and they end up being wrong. You can find people who are incredibly certain that their version of Islam or their flavor of Christianity or their variety of Judaism is absolutely correct. Yet they disagree with each other.

Certainty does not mean you are right. You are placing too much faith on your ability to know.

my problem with bob, is not the point that he questions. it is only he questions with a pre-decided answer already in his mind.

If this is so then how does this make him different than you? You are already certain. You read with answers already in your mind.

We evolved to have very flawed capacities to reason. We are lousy at math in an incredibly mathematical universe. We are only fair at 3 dimensional reasoning and the universe is probably 11 dimensional of the physicists are to be believed. We can't picture the real universe we live in. We can't grasp relativity and picture what it means in our minds.

Our minds are flawed. The certainty that you feel is a product of evolution where it made sense to try hard even with limited info and even when many times we'd turn out to be wrong. It beat not doing anything enough of the time that we have a greater tendency to certainty than our intellectual capacities justify.

Abdul Qureshi said at February 28, 2006 2:56 AM:

Randall, The thing about belief, is that is is all about faith. I do not question the afterlife. I do not question the concept of having to answer for my actions. I allow no doubt to come in to the acceptance that there is a higher power, who should be known as god. the same god that is called allah amongst other names. different tribes and different people over differnt times had their own representative sent by this god to deliver his message. fundamentally i can say that my belief in this is firm. now the difference between me and bob, is that his belief system relies in questioning what is around him, and what he knows, as you do.

to be fair there is nothing wrong with that in this society, but as an islam there is a clause that if you start to question your faith, you border on the kufr. muslims read the quran, but are instructed by the hadiths and also the sunna.

anyway, i am now bored since bob will not move my opinion about islam. and i shall not have a reasonable debate with him, without his continued raising of the base texts, child rape and genocide. no one said that war is good, and certainly no one said that all traditional customs are good. but the way one accepts all this is that you drawn a line under any such behavior and accept that it was common in those times, and thank god, that it is not done today, and moreover it is not done today in the societies you live in.

frankly bob, i have to put my hand up is a brilliant man, very well read. but his mission to create disharmony around islam, is a tried method. countless like him have tried and failed. he should also accept that there is a passage in the quran which clearly states. the quran is not protected by any other than me, (allah states that)

so i do not fear. my faith in allah and firm and that is that. randall i suppose i would like to know more about what you believe in and why. to be honest, i knew this one woman in california, who actually beleived that jesus was a time traveller which accounts for all the miracles, and ofcourse the ability to deal with pain and more over the re-surrection and finally the confirmation of returning again. i did not laugh at this concept since with modern day science everyone of her questions had been proven barring the time travel issue. well that one is still a bit of a mystery, but her school of thought delivered that when time travel woudl be resolved jesus woudl re-appear. anyway why do you believe in what you do.

Bob Badour said at February 28, 2006 7:07 AM:

Abdul,

Most of what you say is utterly pointless. Nothing more than meaningless tautologies and contradictions.

I don't question an afterlife either. There is none to question. I, personally, do not need the threat of eternal punishment to be a good and moral man.

In the absence of contradictory facts, I do not question my beliefs at all. I have faith in my beliefs, and I feel certain I will never encounter any contradictory facts.

A key difference between you and me, though, is I am open minded and you are closed minded. I allow that contradictory facts might someday show up and prove to me that my beliefs are wrong even if I am certain now they never will show up.

You, Abdul, are the cause of terrorism. You and the other closed minded muslims like you.

You are immoral, and you refuse to examine your own immorality. Given that "kafir" or "kufr" means "liar" or "one who covers the truth", you have demonstrated that you are the kafir. You seek to cover the truth of what the base texts of your religion actually say. You seek to conceal your own contribution to Islamic intolerance and terrorism.

You parrot the left-wing talking points about dialogue. But there can be no real dialogue without intellectual honesty.

Why do so many terrorists hack off the heads of innocent people? My answer is: Al-Anfal 12 What is your answer? Apparently, you answer is to try to dismiss the entire phenomenon.

Why do so many Islamic terrorists want so desperately to kill so many innocent people? My answer is: Jihad What is your answer? Apparently, your answer is it is our fault for succeeding.

Why do so many muslims try so desperately to suppress the truth? My answer is: Once again Jihad What is your answer? Allegedly, your mind was made up long ago and you will tolerate nothing that might contradict your 'faith' -- not even the base texts of your religion.

Abdul Qureshi said at February 28, 2006 8:08 AM:

hey there you go pissing me off again, you fuckig knob jockey. if your sorry imposing nosey fucking bigoted governments go poking their fucking noses in other peoples businesses and further more decide to steal the natural resources of other nations etc etc then hey dumb ass guess what the locals will pick up arms. however they may associate your governments thefts and invasion as a conflict between right and wrong, good and evil islam vs christianty etc, in which case they will claim jihad. hey dumb ass furthermore before you fucking numpties decided to steal and invade other nations, the arabs fought amongst themselves, where were the beheadings and shit of the 60's and 70's so dont give me some fucking terrorist shit whenever you feel fit. hacking off the head of an invader is no different than you fuckers bombing childrens schools and burning down mosques through the use of so called security contractors who are mercenaries ex military personnel anyway, this way the US and associated invaders do not get blamed directly.

oh and when americans decide to torture innocent civilians caught in the crossfire in prisons across europe who are not directly affiliated with the us, that is ok, but if they invaders are caught, what the fuck do you expect the so called insurgents (who as i have already told you would be called patriots if the fucking americans hadnt patented that fucking word) to do. they have to kill that person. but no..they offer you re-course to leave their countries and stop the imposition, and further more ask for the release of innocent women that are prison.

lastly, fool, islamic terrorists do not kill innocent people, americans do, heck americans dont even report their own actual casualties since if they did, the american public would ask for the war to end.

you are right about one thing, my mind is made up about the cause of all evil and the reality of invasions and also the ongoing brain washing that is going on. your facts are based on the limited truths that occasionally end up leaked about what is actually going on. islam will fight in any shape it has to.

heres another example. just because americas beleives iran is building nuclear weapons does not make it so, however even with complete transparency from iran to the international community you fuckers are still not satisfied. the war with iran and syria is coming only since your fuckers want it

and as the prophecies say, when damascus falls, the end will come. make it so you fucking hypocritical waste of human flesh.

you are incouragible

Bob Badour said at February 28, 2006 10:08 AM:
your facts are based on the limited truths

I am surprised to see you so condemn the base texts of your own religion.


islamic terrorists do not kill innocent people

You, sir, are a liar. A kafir. Over 2900 of the people murdered on September 11, 2001 by muslims were innocents. The indonesian schoolgirls whose heads were hacked off or shot by muslims last year were innocents. The journalists whose heads were hacked off by muslims to provide dinner-time conspiracy fodder for the propagandists at al-jazeera were innocents.

Thank you for demonstrating why muslims are such a danger to good and moral people; even though, they mouth the typical socialist talking points.

I can think of no better proof of your moral bankruptcy or the moral bankruptcy of the socialists who coddle you.

Abdul Qureshi said at February 28, 2006 12:12 PM:

and you sir are a liar also. only linking reports which clearly show propoganda. the americans in the name of so called democracy are committing genocide in iraq, killing civilians. the israelis who fucking control the so called democratic nations such as inbred americans also kill innocents, but the thousands. dont you ever fucking get on your moral fucking high horse and ever make the democracies of today free of ills and evil.

your sad existence is only from the genocidal forefathers who killed millions of indiginous people and stole their land. killed their children. so your fuckign democracies are all a fucking rouse. get alife. i am not a geeky internet it socially deparved inbred guy like you so i cannot supply links as proficiently as you can, but remember. you are a minority, and it is only a matter of time before the realities of your sad existence will consume you.

lastly michael savage is an authority on politics and religon. he is another bigoted big mouthed inbred red neck and you are merely a cast off from him. its funny though what an atheist will believe and what he will not believe

Bob Badour said at February 28, 2006 1:00 PM:

Abdul,

and you sir are a liar also

What, exactly, did I say that was untrue? It's one thing to claim I am a liar without showing I said a single untrue statement. It's quite another for me to prove exactly how you lied.

your sad existence is only from the genocidal forefathers who killed millions of indiginous people and stole their land

Between you and me, Abdul, only one of us is an algonquian indian. And it ain't you. You can get off your high camel and stop preaching to me about how my forebears murdered the indians, which at best is totally irrelevant to the topic of Islamic intolerance.

I repeat, Abdul, you are morally bankrupt and a kafir. You actively seek to conceal the truth about the base texts of your religion, the truth about Islamic belief, and the truth about the causes of Islamic terrorism.

Abdul Qureshi said at February 28, 2006 3:39 PM:

feed me some other crap. since all you focus on is the so called negative and you cannot stomach someone else has faith in god, and the goodness of allah. you keep sounding like a broken record. yet your own history of democracy shows you all as murdering genocidal off spring. and if you are a red indian, then further shame on you for being such a lost cause. bet your ancestors must be flying high like eagles looking at your sorry ass, and wondering where they went wrong. you say i am morally bankrupt yet the entire western world is not only morally, but also ethically, religously bankrupt

the christian masses are leaving the church in droves, and islam is growing at a faster pace today than any other religon at any other time in the world. so my little indian atheist, you are right to worry, since the real jihad your so diligently talk about is coming and at the expense of all that is around us.

islamic terrorism is a product of being stirred, keep sticking your hand in a beehive and then cry when the bees sting. islamists will not stand by when many like you kill innocents and invade.

i dont actively seek to hide the base truths you have mentioned 834 times. they are there, get over it. the fact still remains that islam as a faith is the strongest one, and losers like you make no dam impact. and the westerners who you try to educate couldnt really give a monkeys left nut.

the governments however do, since their agendas are not religous per se, it is control. and to control islam you need to suppress it, and that is where the fundamental problem really kicks in. ah well, bob, i have never denied the base core islam, however muslims follow the hadiths as well. get a life you sick sad sorry lonely loser

Bob Badour said at February 28, 2006 4:30 PM:
the entire western world is not only morally, but also ethically, religously bankrupt

I disagree. The vast majority of people here in the west are moral, ethical -- almost all are. And a majority are religious.

On the other hand, relatively few look to known murderers, rapists, or pedophiles for moral guidance. I would argue that those who do look to murderers, rapists or pedophiles for moral guidance are immoral and evil, and I suspect a majority of rational people would agree.

the real jihad your so diligently talk about is coming and at the expense of all that is around us.

Thank you for finally admitting that you are a virulent jihadist just like the other murderers.

islamists will not stand by when many like you kill innocents and invade.

Invade? Not one of the 2900 innocent murder victims on September 11, 2001 invaded anything. Those christian schoolgirls in indonesia invaded nothing you sick lying, immoral bastard.

islam as a faith is the strongest one

Attacking schoolgirls is a coward's sign of weakness not strength. You are deluded if you think anyone would see such cowardice as strength.

muslims follow the hadiths as well

Where exactly did you think I got the idea that Mohammed is a murdering rapist and genocidal pedophile? That comes directly from the Hadith.

Bob Badour said at February 28, 2006 4:43 PM:

P.S.

islamic terrorism is a product of being stirred

That's akin to saying the explosion is the product of agitating the nitro glycerine and not due to the nature of the explosive itself.

Randall Parker said at February 28, 2006 5:29 PM:

Abdul,

You do not question your faith. You follow instructions in your faith. You are told you should not doubt and therefore you follow orders and do not doubt. That's foreign to my way of thinking,

Well, this is one reason why Islamic societies have stagnated. Yes, we in the West question. We question a great deal. We experiment. We research. We challenge assumptions. Well, we've had and continue to have enormous successes doing this. We try to understand reality. By doing so we develop better ways to manipulate matter, reorganize our economies, our societies.

I question because I figure it obvious that the people who came before me were wrong about incredibly large numbers of things.

Abdul Qureshi said at March 1, 2006 12:22 AM:

randall, i believe in christianity it clearly says, if you do not accept christ as your lord and saviour, then there will be no salvation. it is also the acceptance of the lord in blind faith that makes for you to being a good christian. questioning promoted doubt, doubt promotes reason and reason causes effect. you are a natural result of doubt and reason, i have no problem with that since you are where you choose to be.

bob, however is judging the entire islamic nations based on the actions of some sick deluded men who carried out murders under the name of islam. for your information americans widely now believe that the 9/11 situ was a trigger, buy the bush administration to create change. if in 2000 the state had wanted to increase the defence budget by $90 billion dollars to renew the US defences etc, bush would have been laughed out of office, however by creating an enemy, an easy one at that, one who is child like and can be stirred easily you create a need. suddenly the public demands results and answers so the changes that would never have been approved in any other circumstance are not only welcomed but asked for.

frankly speaking bob, your whole arguement is that the base texts introduced by a child raping genocial maniac makes for a ill religon and his teachings are fundamentally erroneous. however bobs lecture is for the audience that does not exist, such as the western societies that do not give a shit.

randall finally all faiths have a clause which clearly outlines, that doubt will essentially remove you from the right path, its like a fail safe. if you do this, you are no longer a devout follower. i understand that, and still believe in islam as the perfect religon. i many not choose to believe in alot that happens in the muslim world, i may choose not to support alot of what is yelled about in the islamic world, but todays behaviour by the muslims mostly is a reaction to provocation.

sterotyping and promotion of a belief that all of islam is a war religon. whatever

Bob Badour said at March 1, 2006 8:54 AM:
todays behaviour by the muslims mostly is a reaction to provocation.

Of course it is. They were provoked by the Saudi propaganda machine to distract them from the Saudi indifference to muslim lives.

Consider:

The Danes publish innocuous cartoons back in September, and for four months: nothing.

Consider instead:

1) The Saudis let a couple hundred muslims get trampled to death ... yet again.
2) The muslims of the world get restive over the apparent Saudi indifference.
3) The Saudi propaganda machine cranks up the rhetoric over the cartoons.
4) Within days, Syrians are burning down the Danish embassy.
5) No more talk about those indifferent, insensitive Saudi royals letting muslims die en masse every year.

I note that you, Abdul, feed the flames through your apologetics, which discourage muslims from accepting their own responsibility for their own stupidity. You need to start looking within instead of constantly projecting blame onto anything and everything but yourself. Your refusal to accept personal responsibility is infantile, petulant and knee-jerk.

bob, however is judging the entire islamic nations based on the actions of some sick deluded men who carried out murders under the name of islam.

Why shouldn't Bob (and everyone else for that matter) judge the Islamic faith by what its base texts say about its founder, Mohammed, and all of the early Caliphs? It's not my fault they were sick deluded men. It's not my fault they were universally murderers and thieves. I am not the one who looks to them for moral guidance.

P.S. Before you criticise me for linking to Craig Winn's site, I have yet to find an online Tarikh al-Tabari to link to instead. The problem of being the most comprehensive early history of Islam is that it is big. Nobody seems to have put it online yet. Though I must say size doesn't seem to daunt the Christians when it comes to revealing the 'truth'.

Abdul Qureshi said at March 1, 2006 9:00 AM:

what christians, there aint going to be any left, all that will be left will be a mass of muslims, and loads of controlling jews. and then a whole baying hoard of athists and middle of the roaders. the only christians which will be left will be those that are black and recent converts. go to any church and all you see is black people. lol so christians my ass. all you do is read information as you see fit, and that is it. the end

Bob Badour said at March 1, 2006 11:16 AM:

Abdul,

Where I live, there are 4 grocery stores, a half-dozen schools and a dozen or more christian churches. It's a mixed anglosaxon/acadian area. Blacks are scarce but Christians are plentiful. I am not sure where you get your skewed racial ideas. Although, I can guess where you get your paranoid views about 'controlling Jews'.

Could you answer my question, though? Why shouldn't Bob (and everyone else for that matter) judge the Islamic faith by what its base texts say about its founder, Mohammed, and all of the early Caliphs?

If you are going to just reply with more bravado, I suggest you skip from "hooting slow to fast" all the way up to "chest-beating with cupped hands". While I won't consider it any more persuasive, it will at least provide some entertainment.

Randall Parker said at March 1, 2006 4:11 PM:

Abdul,

The 9/11 attackers were not isolated from the larger Islamic society. They were immensely popular after the 9/11 attacks as polls and demonstrations showed.

Fail safes in religions: Yes, these fail safes are put there to prevent you from thinking. They block off critical thought and are designed to manipulate you into staying in the fold. Religions that lacked these fail safes were selected against in competitions between religions and died out as a result.

Provocations: Muslims notice provocations from outside far more than from inside. A Muslim leader can gas a Kurdish village or shell a Syrian town (Hama) and scarcely a criticism is raised from the Ummah. Muslims have a double standard. That double standard comes from the base texts of their religion.

Bob Badour said at March 7, 2006 9:19 AM:

With respect to my comments of March 1 above, I see at least one of those dozen or more local christian churches is in the news for a miraculous coffee stain or some such.

A few weeks ago, I had a potato that looked kinda like Kilroy. Now I am wishing I had kept it to sell on ebay instead of cutting it up for french fries. Back-to-back miracles might have really driven up the bidding.


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