2005 September 04 Sunday
New Orleans Police Go AWOL

AWOL is a US military term meaning Absence Without Official Leave. Much of the New Orleans police force has gone AWOL. Some reports put police desertions around the 20% mark.

Earlier, police officers told CNN that some of their fellow officers had simply stopped showing up for duty, cutting manpower by 20 percent or more in some precincts.

Joseph Treaster of the New York Times reports that out of a police force of 1500 at least 200 police quit. (same article here)

NEW ORLEANS — Reeling from the chaos of this overwhelmed city, at least 200 New Orleans police officers have walked away from their jobs, and two have committed suicide, police officials said yesterday.

Some officers told superiors that they were leaving, police officials said. Others worked for a while and then stopped showing up. Still others, for reasons not always clear, never made it in after the storm.

But a Pentagon National Guard official says two thirds of the New Orleans police force has abandoned their jobs.

Lt. Gen. Steven Blum, chief of the Pentagon's National Guard Bureau, said two-thirds of the police in New Orleans have abandoned the force amid horrific conditions.

Can you picture two thirds of the NYPD going AWOL in a crisis? Not going to happen.

Federal authorities did not expect the local police to collapse.

"The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans," Blum told reporters here.

"Once that assessment was made ... then the requirement became obvious," he said. "And that's when we started flowing military police into the theater."

Some police claimed they did this because the hours were so long. But those cops could have just chosen to work fewer hours. Did cops resign in large numbers when they were most needed in the week after the 9/11 attack? Or in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew or Hurricane Ivan? Did they do this in Biloxi or Gulfport Mississippi? Not to my knowledge.

Also, some police said they quit because it was too dangerous trying to stop the looters. But the cops could have restricted themselves to smaller areas and defended areas where they could bring large concentrations of their own numbers together. So I'm not buying that as an excuse either.

So why did the New Orleans cops go AWOL in such large numbers when they are most needed? Was this an unforeseeable result? If one was not blinded by the false beliefs of politically correct left-liberal ideology could one have foreseen the collapse of the New Orleans police force and the lawlessness? I think so.

In his essay "Racial Reality And The New Orleans Nightmare" Steve Sailer examines why the disaster in New Orleans was accompanied by the collapse of civil society and the collapse of the police.

For instance, after blacks took control of New Orleans, they required new police recruits to live in the city itself as a way to exclude white cops. Dean M. Shapiro writes for Court TV's "Crime Library":

"The department was being depleted of experienced officers and the numbers within the ranks were decreasing as crime stats were rising at an alarming rate… In order to beef up the rapidly dwindling numbers of NOPD, the department was forced to lower its acceptance standards. Recruits with criminal records, DWIs, unfavorable employment records and dishonorable discharges from the Armed Forces were allowed to enter the Police Academy, whereas they had previously been excluded… Their records were expunged and, on completion of their training, they were issued badges, guns and patrol cars and turned loose on the street… These new officers were expected to suddenly straighten up and begin enforcing the laws they had not-so-long-ago been breaking. They were expected to arrest those suspected of crimes, even if those accused had once been their street buddies. But this was an unrealistic expectation."

The foxes were recruited to guard the hen house. That happened in an American city. I've read elsewhere (and now can not find the link) that current Mayor Nagin ended the practice of recruiting criminals to the police force. Anyone know if that is true? Nagin has the reputation of an anti-corruption reformer.

Note that the New Orleans population is 28% white and 67% black. It has more households with children that have only mothers present than it has of households with both parents present.

The New Orleans population from which their police get recruited have an economic profile that should give one pause.

Despite having a majority, African-Americans account for only around 14 percent of business owners in the city, according minority development groups. Median family income for African Americans in New Orleans is $21,461 compared with $40,049 for white families. Per capita income for black families is even more out of step, $11,332 compared with $31,971 for white families.

The number of African-Americans with college degrees also lags, at 9 percent of the population compared with 24 percent for Caucasians, according to 2000 census figures.

These are the people from whom the New Orleans police force recruits. Those who did not evacuate were even poorer than the figures for the blacks reported above.

You can see a picture of black cops taking DVDs out of a looted store where "The police got all the best stuff". (PDF format)

lot, looters pushed carts and loaded trucks and vans alongside officers. One man said police directed him to Wal-Mart from Robert's Grocery, where a similar scene was taking place.

A crowd in the electronics section said one officer broke the glass DVD case so people wouldn't cut themselves.

"The police got all the best stuff. They're crookeder than us," one man said.

Why is looting rare after disasters? Politically correct sociologists (see the previous link) profess to be mystified. Why did cops in New Orleans but not in most disaster areas go on a looting spree in Wal Mart? (video at that link)

Racial preferences and political correctness helped make the New Orleans Police ineffective and even dangerous in many instances.

Meanwhile, cops, when they can get away with it, have been living out of town. It is far too scary for them and their families. New Orleans Police officers are required to live in the city but many ignore this residency requirement, according to the Times-Picayune. The paper discovered that many top-ranking New Orleans cops lived in the suburbs and that most cops, both black and white, wanted the residency requirement rescinded.

For reasons of political correctness -- critics of law enforcement say lifting the residency requirement will mean more white cops eager to brutalize residents of the inner city and fewer black cops understanding of them -- the residency requirement remains, though cops breaking the rule told the Times-Picayune that it seriously hurts recruitment. It also -- this is particularly evident in Los Angeles where cops involved in the Ramparts scandal turned out to be ex-criminals -- distorts recruitment.

Steve Sailer says the lies about race that are part of the political correctness speech code in America do great harm when they form the basis for public policies.

There's this general assumption that political correctness can't really hurt us because everybody privately knows the facts about racial differences in behavior and acts upon them. For example, I'm sure Mike Brown made sure not to buy his family a home in an all black neighborhood precisely because he knows they have bad crime rates.

But the reality is much scarier. Although everybody knows the facts when it comes to their own private decision-making, an awful lot of people like Mike Brown have internalized the rhetoric they know they have to spout to keep their jobs and then they mindlessly apply it when it comes to public decision-making. I'm constantly struck by how people, even anonymous commenters in online discussions who have nothing to lose, make assertions about the facts affecting public policies that are completely at odds with what they'd tell me over a beer if we were discussing where to buy real estate. But they've brainwashed themselves so badly that it never occurs to them that the harsh facts of private life have any bearing on the glossy world of public policy.

George W. Bush and his crowd failed in Iraq in large part because they treated Iraqis as just like Americans in their cognitive abilities and supposed innate deep down yearning to live in a liberal free society. Similarly, the Bush Administration's failure to foresee the collapse of civil society in New Orleans and the failure of the New Orleans government and police were foreseeable with race realism. Liberals who are complaining about Bush's performance who also enforce the taboos governing discussion about racial differences in America share in the moral culpability for what transpired in New Orleans in the past week.

Lies are costly. The truth is a valuable commodity. America's national discussion about race would benefit greatly from more honesty about group average differences in behavior due to genetic differences.

The political failures within the political ranks of Louisiana politics extend beyond New Orleans. A Washington Post article about power struggles for control over crisis workers illustrates the fact that a large portion of the workers on the ground in Southern Louisiana were and are under the control of state and local officials and these officials botched their handling of the crisis.

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

This paragraph suggests Governor Blanco has had control of Louisiana state Guard troops for the past week.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

This is staggering. Governor Blanco waited until Wednesday to ask other states for help. Hello? Anyone home? A state of emergency? If this isn't one then what would it take to declare one? A nuclear attack?

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

Also see my previous post " New Orleans Demonstrates Power Of Race Taboo In America".

Update: Over on Gene Expression a poster in a thread references New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof's experience in Kobe Japan during the 1995 earthquake. I found a slightly longer excerpt from Kristof's book explaining how in Kobe after the 1995 earthquake which killed 5,200 people the only incident of looting was carried out by Iranians, not Japanese.

Just days after we moved to Tokyo in 1995, our son Geoffrey, then a baby, roused Sheryl for a 5:30 a.m. feeding. A few minutes later our bed began to shake. "Wake up, Nick!" Sheryl urged me with a poke. "It's an earthquake!" I grunted and, in an effort to reassure the household, kept sleeping. But it turned out to be the great earthquake that devastated the port city of Kobe and killed 5,200 people. A modern city as reduce to rubble, and for the next few days ordinary middle-class families were thrown back virtually to the stone age, struggling to find water, food, toilets, and shelter. Homes and shops were abandoned, of course, and in America or Europe the result would have been widespread looting, as well as desperate fighting for water, food, and blankets.

Instead, the people of Kobe were majestic in their suffering. They lined up for water and other supplies, never jostling, and nobody climbed through the shattered store windows to help themselves. Even the yakuza, the Japanese gangsters, suspended their criminal behavior and tried to improve their image by trucking food to the hardest-hit areas to give it away to the newly homeless.

I was fascinated by these displayed of public honesty, and so I kept searching for a case of theft or looting. Finally, I was thrilled to find one. Two young men had entered a shattered convenience store, picked up some food from the floor, and run out. Rumors of this crime spread around town, and finally I was able to find the store and its owner. "Of course, we expect this kind of looting if there is an earthquake in Los Angeles," I noted triumphantly, fishing for a good quote, "but were you shocked that your fellow Japanese would take advantage of the chaos and do such a thing?"

The shop owner looked puzzled. "Who said anything about Japanese?" he asked me politely. "The thieves weren't Japanese. They were foreigners. Iranians, it looked like."

He was right, it turned out. And I always think of that scene when I hear people talk of instability in Asia, because to me it speaks to something very different and something I saw much more often: a more cohesion and a sense pf shared values that together create a considerable degree of social stability in Asia. The social fabric of the East is rent or threadbare in places, but on the whole it seems to me stronger and more resilient than that of the West. And in assessing Asia's prospects in the coming decades, one of the important assets that it has working for it is this social fabric - by which I mean strong families, low crime rates, considerable civility, and a broad sense of shared values and destiny. If I had to offer a shorthand for Asia's path to growth, it would be economic flexibility, brutal drive, and social stability.

The Kobe quake was followed by such a total lack of government response that what local, state, and federal authorities did in southern Louisiana looks herculean by comparison. Yet the Kobe residents remained extremely civilized.

Kristof, faithful to the liberal politically correct Church of the Blank Slate, would have us believe that culture entirely explains the Japanese reaction to Kobe. But East Asians living in America commit crime at rates even lower than white rates and this pattern shows up consistently even in children and grandchildren of East Asian immigrants. So putting this all down to culture just does not fly.

Over on Gene Expression Dobeln proposes that New Orleans collapsed because the smarter people fled and the average IQ in New Orleans dropped below even the black national IQ average.

There has been widespread debate about the reasons behind the rapid breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. One factor, however, is consistently overlooked in this discussion: IQ.

Katrina did not merely devastate New Orleans physically – she also most likely caused a catastrophic drop in average population IQ of more than one standard deviation. The drop occurred before Katrina had even made landfall, during evacuation.

Do not expect to hear this explanation on the national news channels or in the New York Times. Such an argument is heretical to high liberal church believers. Their faith requires that they reject the empirical evidence just as many Christian fundamentalists reject Darwinism.

Update II: Above a Washington Post story relays a claim that Governor Blanco never declared a state of emergency in Louisiana. Well, as Greg Cochran pointed out in the comments that is a false claim made by a Bush Administration spinner. I found two stories here and here from the week before Katrina hit Louisiana that have Blanco declaring a state of emergency on August 26, 2005. Do not trust the Bush Administration's statements in the blame game. They will tell lies if they think they can get away from some of the blame for the inadequacy of the disaster response.

By the way, click here for a high level picture of the municipal buses that sit flooded out in New Orleans that could have evacuated people before the hurricane hit. That link puts the bus count at 255. Put 50 people on each bus and that would have been 12750 evacuated per round trip.

Update III: Regarding whether Governor Blanco declared a state of emergency: Here is the August 26, 2005 declaration of emergency by Governor Blanco.

Update IV: Ged Scott of Liverpool England describes how bad the New Orleans police were. (same article here)

"I couldn't describe how bad the authorities were - just little things like taking photographs of us, as we are standing on the roof waving for help, for their own personal photo albums, little snapshot photographs.

"At one point, there were a load of girls on the roof of the lobby of the hotel saying 'Can you help us?' and the policemen said 'Show us what you've got' and made signs for them to lift their T-shirts.

"When they said no, they said 'fine' and motored off down the road in their motorboat."

The Scotts witnessed people, including hotel staff and guests, returning from looting sprees with mobile phones, radios and clothes which they attempted to sell to the stranded guests.

But the most terrifying aspect of their ordeal was the shooting which broke out at night, when there were no police patrolling.

Mr Scott said police appeared to be operating only between 9am and 5pm, after which the hotel guests had to defend themselves.

"You would hear shots ringing out during the night and that was one of the most worrying things, because we had no security. We patrolled the halls and checked the doors throughout the night in the hotel, but if someone had wanted to come in, there wasn't much we could have done about it."

A September 6, 2005 report from the New York Times claims one third of the New Orleans police have quit.

Morale on the police force is in tatters. About 500 officers - a third of the force and far more than previously estimated - have dropped out of the daily lineup. Some of them may still be in houses cut off by the storm or may have simply gone off to help their families and will eventually return. But most of the missing officers have either told their superiors that they were quitting or simply walked off the job. Two officers have shot themselves to death.

Some officers have stayed on duty and performed heroically. I hope the quitters are not allowed back on the force.

Officer Brian French said that the New Orleans Police Department didn't put extra police on duty to prepare for the hurricane because the department wanted to save money.

Officer French, 25, a native of Ohio, joined the New Orleans Police Department because he wanted a chance to do "real police work."

Although he has heard city and state officials criticize the federal government as not coming fast enough, Officer French also questioned why local officers were not mustered sooner for special duty.

"They told us not to come in on Sunday, the day of the storm, to come in the next day to save money on their budget," he said.

Words fail.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2005 September 04 01:56 PM  Human Nature


Comments
Derek Copold said at September 4, 2005 3:13 PM:

My compliments to you for compiling these stories and extracting the key quotes. You've been on top of this.

T. J. Madison said at September 4, 2005 3:49 PM:

Minor point: I though AWOL was Absent Without Official Leave.

Marvin said at September 4, 2005 6:11 PM:

I salute you for having the courage to face this issue honestly. You are quite right that the national media is too indoctrinated, not to mention cravenly, to even approach this level of honesty. When a city government is made up of affirmative action promotions and elected officials, you expect the state government to show better sense in an emergency. In this case, the state government was just as incompetent and nearly as corrupt as the local city government. Political correctness demands that minorities and women be given high positions, regardless of competence. We see the fruits of that policy here.

Matt said at September 4, 2005 6:48 PM:

Great Reporting, Randall.

Stephen said at September 4, 2005 7:10 PM:

I wonder whether a simpler explanation for going AWOL might be that residents who happened to be police were as directly affected by the disaster as their neighbours, and so they stayed home instead? My guess is that this isn't too unusual.

The most amazing thing about this event is that there was no self-organising, instead the entire community appears to have been content to sit and wait. That said, my definition of 'entire community' is that tiny fraction that attracted the camera's attention - and we all know how representative that can be.

Bob Badour said at September 4, 2005 7:47 PM:

Stephen,

Why then did law and order remain throughout the rest of the Gulf Coast? Mass desertion among the civil authority does not usually happen. Sure the police were affected, and the best way they can help themselves and their families is to maintain order and lawful behaviour.

In most parts of America, the police understand this simple concept.

I have to say, though. The video of the female police officer at the Walmart reminded me of the soldiers in Iraq when anarchy broke out. (That is after she stepped away from her shopping cart and pretended she was not herself looting the store.) I wonder if Bush and Rummy started a dangerous precedent for America when they failed to send sufficient forces to maintain order in Iraq?

gcochran said at September 4, 2005 8:07 PM:


" As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said. "

The senior Bush official lied. Blanco declared a state of emergency on the 26th. More generally, there is a ongoing effort to shift blame from the Feds. After all, who could have expected a hurricane _and_a levee break? Other than me, of course. I'd enjoy beating the crap out of Chertoff - looks easy, too.
Of course, one reason that I was worrying about a levee break the day before was my estimate of the political culture of New Orleans: irresponsible thieves, always have been, couldn't even get their act together to resist Farragut. Pretty much the same for Louisiana: it's a state without _citizens_.

New Orleans and Lousians being crooked and incompetent is like water being wet. I've gotten used to it and I recommend that you do the same - there's nothing you can do about it. However, in this case the Feds are just as bad - and that's serious. An incompetent Administration is a threat to every one of us, and utter Federal incompetence isn't (or wasn't, anyhow)part of the inevitable nature of things.

Do remember that Bush wanted to appoint Bernie Kerik to HHS: a whore's get, an adulterer, a thief, a bigamist, hardly qualified to be Rudy's chauffeur. I wonder just when Bernie caught Rudy porking the babysitter - the secret of fast promotion. And he keeps Norm Mineta around - why? Why does Bush do any of the things he does? Why did he appoint an utterly unqualified asshole to head FEMA? Couldn't he have made him an ambassador to Atlantis or something?






John S Bolton said at September 4, 2005 9:15 PM:

Another explanation of a lot of this, would be that power seekers are always looking for excuses to increase the freedom for aggression, as much as can be gotten away with at a given time. In the new left pattern, officials find themselves with a situation where anyone who objects can be described as racist, sexist, etc., then they exploit that opportunity to the limit. If there are ten thousand dead blacks in NO, it can be gotten away with, since the complaint might have to be: why didn't Blanco override the whims of the black mayor, and why didn't Bush tell the sexual patronage seeker her duty? They can get away with this and more, and power means the power to do damage to people, which explains the impulse of the power seeker to exploit such an opportunity.

John S Bolton said at September 4, 2005 9:27 PM:

On the above assumptions, it is also perhaps somewhat clearer why Bush doesn't have to care if he is called a racist for letting so many blacks die ignomimiously and preventably. Racism, as used by the government schools and those more influenced by them, means that by which the black man's freedom for aggression is thwarted. By that definition, Bush would be racist for sweeping aside the black mayor in time to save the lives which could have been saved, but not in the same degree for letting it go on.

M.Robinson said at September 5, 2005 4:09 AM:

I have seen (only on TV) the devastation caused during the Tsunami(which the networks devoted less time than to the Orleans story) and the massive rainfall in Bombay, India. In both cases there was death and destruction on a much larger scale than in New Orleans.

Whereas the tsunami occured without any warning systems in place. The New Orleans disaster occured even when so much was known a week prior.
The Governor Knew of the impending disaster, as well as the Federal government. The rich left the city because they could afford to do so, and what you had was the poor,old and some elements of criminals remained behind.

You seem to suggest that the looting occured on the basis that those that remained were black and as such were more prone to looting, this is a lie. If you look at parts of Africa there are poor people and some will remain dignified in their approach while others will break the law, one cannot generalise wholesale on a race of people, it is more complex than you suggest. You cannot say that with any certainty that had the situation been the opposite , i.e those that remained behind been white and poor you would not have ended up in the same situation.

The majority of asian people are quite religious, and this may be one aspect as to why looting does not occur(Bangladesh floodings, Tsunami, Monsoon rains causing havok etc) on a big scale, there are criminals in every society, as you seem to forget that the YAKUZA are the mafia in Japan.

The Blacks in America have been duped regularly, first by the Christians, then by the TWO political parties.

the National Geographic (2004) showed the dangers posed my a big hurricane to the city of new Orleans. the authorities did not show any desire to spend money on shoring up the defences of new Orleans, now some may argue that if the population had been 67% white would the decision have been different.

The US federal government can find the money to attack another nation on the pretext of lies, yet it cannot find the money to help its own citizens is pathetic to say the least.

adf said at September 5, 2005 5:24 AM:

You cannot say that with any certainty that had the situation been the opposite , i.e those that remained behind been white and poor you would not have ended up in the same situation.

Of course you can. Look right next door at Harrison County MS. It's overwhelmingly white and there is no looting.

asdf said at September 5, 2005 5:31 AM:

The majority of asian people are quite religious

You don't know what you're talking about. Shintoism and Buddhism are nothing like western religions...and even then many Japanese are totally secular.

Kenelm Digby said at September 5, 2005 5:33 AM:

For your information:
"M.Robinson" is really Rajesh Patel from India.

Parabellum said at September 5, 2005 6:18 AM:

...the Bush Administration's failure to foresee the collapse of civil society in New Orleans...

Since when is this the job of the federal government?

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 6:35 AM:

M./Rajesh,

What part of "Even the yakuza, the Japanese gangsters, suspended their criminal behavior " suggested to you Randall or the original author quoted was unaware of the nature of the yakuza?

I agree the discussion would have been very different if NO was 67% white. The majority whites would have elected competent government at the local level focusing more on policy and competence than on race. Likewise, those majority whites would have demanded the best police available even if they had to offer them commuting allowances to get them to the city. With the possible exception of lowering standards to provide a sexual preference for politically correct female police officers, of course.

Women, as a generality, engage in less criminal behaviour than men so I don't think a preference for female officers would have led to as much criminality on the part of the police, and I am unsure about the effect on desertion. I suspect a female officer with children might more likely desert to be with her children, but that is mere speculation on my part.

Oh, and then after the disaster hit, the majority white men who remained behind would have joined forces to protect the weak, help the sick and rescue the stranded. Much like the Aussie men gathered and organized the non-black tourists for mutual protection at the terrordome.

Yep, it would have been a very different picture, indeed.

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 6:39 AM:

Parabellum,

Ever since it was the federal government's job to prevent insurrection, to render relief to the disadvantaged, and to maintain a federal infrastructure of highways and navigable waterways.

Stuka said at September 5, 2005 6:40 AM:

I guess my truth-telling provoked the censor. I didn't mean to be so naughty. Sorry about that, chaps. There there, don't you worry. Why don't you go back to your faux-academic discussions, your liberal soul-searching, your earnest belief that the impending crisis in the West can be worked out by anything BUT force.

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 6:41 AM:

What suggests to you we have that earnest belief?

Marvin said at September 5, 2005 6:59 AM:

Blanco is pathetic. So is the mayor of New Orleans. Pathetic. Louisiana government should be dissolved completely and reconstituted from the beginning.

Apologists for the local corrupt incompetents need to have their diapers changed and take their naps. They aren't ready for prime time quite yet.

M.Robinson said at September 5, 2005 7:56 AM:

Shintoism and Buddhism are nothing like western religions.......]

which western religion are you referring to?

christianity comes from the middle east, so much for your comprehensive knowledge on the origins and belief systems. asia is a large continent, the inhabitants of Bangladesh and Idia are predominently muslim and hindu, with minorities of christian and sikh's. south east asia is predominently budhist and muslim.

All religions share some sort of moral code, and the following of the moral code may be the inherent aspect which stops some from lawlessness during times of disasters.


The majority whites would have elected competent government ............]

again I see selective amnesia, in that the majority of americans are white, and they have elected for president an individual who lacks the intellectual ability to put a sentence together without his speech writers.


Here in britain our Prime minister would have been attacked my the media, if he had shown the same attitude as by Dubya bush.
the level of competence among our Police force is considered the best , and that includes the non-white officers.

I was brought up in a multiculture society, and my experiences have taught me that you do not judge a person by their colour, judgment should be made on the basis of each individual and how decent and law abiding they are.

The US Prisons are not full of blacks, there are hispanics and Whites(many of whom have committed, murder, rape, robbery, etc). If you just go by the general assumption that many make, then I can only presume you would prefer to have a White muderer and rapist live as your neighbour than a black person.

Randall Parker said at September 5, 2005 9:26 AM:

Kenelm Digby,

From this thread where "M.Robinson" and "N.Vikram" posted from the same IP address I figured that "M.Robinson" is really "N.Vikram".

From another thread he said I have hardly come across anyone attack islam standing in front of a muslim, what is it fear! which led me more strongly to believe he must be a Muslim.

It is handy to be able search my commenters archive and sort by email address...

Matra said at September 5, 2005 9:32 AM:

Rajesh Patel - Here in britain our Prime minister would have been attacked my the media, if he had shown the same attitude as by Dubya bush.

Bush is being attacked in the media. Surely that is obvious to anyone with access to American television.

Even so, it's silly to compare the PM of a still highly centralised state to the US president as US state and local governments have considerable power and resources, even when compared to Scotland after devolution. In Britain most people struggle to name their local representatives and most don't vote in council elections because they have little power.

the level of competence among our Police force is considered the best

Yes we saw that in the recent shooting of the illegal alien Jean Charles de Menezes. I suggest you go to rural England and ask the locals what they think of the police protection they receive.

I was brought up in a multiculture society, and my experiences have taught me that you do not judge a person by their colour, judgment should be made on the basis of each individual

That's funny. I live in a multicultural society (Canada) and race is a factor used in employment and promotion, university acceptance, government grant allocation, and even legal aid. In all these situations whites are the only ones discriminated against. Last time I lived in the UK it was quite common to see jobs adverts in The Guardian and other papers suggesting that racial minority applicants would be "particularly welcome". I think we all know what that means.

Randall Parker said at September 5, 2005 9:56 AM:

M.Robinson (or N.Vikram or Rajesh Patel),

London has a higher crime rate than New York City in all categories aside from murder. London is gradually closing the gap on murder as more Jamaican and other ethnic gangs use guns.

Tragically, a combination of leftist political culture with unceasing attack on old British values and the immigration of high crime ethnic groups have destroyed the highly civilized and low crime rate British culture that so many Americans openly admired for so long.

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 9:56 AM:

"If you just go by the general assumption that many make, then I can only presume you would prefer to have a White muderer and rapist live as your neighbour than a black person."

I respectfully suggest you project your own shortcomings onto others. I don't know what "general assumption" you refer to since you only allude to it without any specifics, but I see no reason to believe the folks who post in Randall's comments have much in common with the "general" population. I note that your presumption leads you to make risible statements, which is another way of saying: "We are pointing and laughing at you."

Jay Z said at September 5, 2005 1:01 PM:

"Kristof, faithful to the liberal politically correct Church of the Blank Slate, would
have us believe that culture entirely explains the Japanese reaction to Kobe."

"putting this all down to culture just does not fly."

We can't completely attribute Japanese law abidingness in such a situation to culture,
but I'd guess that culture plays an important role. Only culture can explain the
remarkable differences between British whites today and 50 years ago; or American whites
and Russian whites.


Also, it's worth noting that lawlesness and looting errupted in authoritarian China after
major flooding in 1998.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/149793.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/china/stories/river081298.htm

"The order, from the Political Science and Law Committee of the party's Central Committee, was a
blunt indication that lawlessness, looting and concerted opposition to the government's policy of
displacing millions of people is rising as the situation intensifies along the banks of the Yangtze River."


Rioting and looting also errupted in a city in China's Zhejiang province several week ago due to anger
over the corruption of local leaders. It took 700 riot police to put down the disorder. I'll try and
see if I can find the article.

Jay Z said at September 5, 2005 1:38 PM:

It's interesting to note the reaction in the Indian city of Bombay
after major flooding a few weeks ago that killed nearly 1000 people.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/29mt1.htm

"We were leaving the Consulate at about 16:00 on Tuesday when the rains hit hard.
How we got home is not as important as the fact that even with all this disruption
and havoc, Mumbai was a "SAFE" place. Whenever diplomatic officers leave at the end
of their postings they always realise that beneath the chaos and usual hassles Mumbai
is a very very safe and friendly city.

In other cities there might have been looting and increased crime but no one and I repeat
no one ever felt threatened personally. I was pleasantly surprised to see some people in Mahim
offering coffee to passers by. In every locality I heard of strangers who opened their hearts and
their doors to other strangers and offered shelter and food for the night."


http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/08/14/210105.php

"In a recent message I received from Indian author Ashok Banker, he described the people of Bombay and their reaction to any such calamity.

'Here, In Bombay, when we have a power outage or floods, or any calamity, people will actually come out and help you, no matter what trouble you're in, risking their own lives (and often dying while doing so, something that happens routinely and is reported in the press often). Not only are things like looting of stores or mugging unheard of at such times, even criminals turn into helpers and relief workers, working alongside police. It's the most unique thing on earth and I wouldn't exchange it for all the avenues of America and luxuries of the west.'"

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 1:53 PM:

" Only culture can explain the remarkable differences between British whites today and 50 years ago; or American whites and Russian whites."

Why do you say that? I see good reason to expect at least a small drift in genetic propensities in Britain due to such factors as the aftermath of WWII and to the welfare state. I see no reason to assume much genetic similarity between American whites and Russian whites. Are you suggesting you would expect to find no behavioural differences between Watusis and Pigmies?

Parabellum said at September 5, 2005 2:21 PM:

You didn't answer the question, Bob. You went off on a tangent.

Let me rephrase it a little: Since when is it the federal government's job to 'foresee the collapse of civil society' in a particular town?

Jay Z said at September 5, 2005 2:32 PM:

Bob, the rise in the crime rate in England since the end of WWII has been too extreme to
be completely explained away by dysgenics. A small amount of genetic drift can
explain a small to moderate increase in crime over time, but not the vast increase in crime
among lower class English whites. Steve Sailer wrote a good article on VDARE about the
social breakdown in England's white slums.

Hugh Angell said at September 5, 2005 2:52 PM:

Glad I found this weblog. I did so while trying to compile some statistical data on crime
rates in New Orleans. I don't wish negroes ill but I fear the consequences of treating them
'just like everyone else' as the underclass has become so coarse and brutal they are a real
menace to the continued functioning of this nation.

I agree with those that say because negroes may not be as intelligent as whites or asians
has little to do with the looting. It is more complicated than that. There are plenty of
negroes who are honest but they grow fewer and fewer because of the culture of entitlement
and the glorification of ghetto culture by American media and leftist politicians.

I am nauseated when I hear white people use the term 'bling' as if that crude and ugly
word borrowed from semi human rapspeak does anything other than legitimize the savage
culture from which it sprang. There was a time when negro leadership was composed of those
who sought to emulate middleclass white values and they looked down on the coarser poor
negro culture as an embarrassment and hindrance to their goal of ending legal and social
barriers to their races advancement. Now those who held those views, people like Clarence
Thomas, Condi Rice, Colin Powell are scorned as inauthentic and those who have none of
their accomplishments or abilities are crowned leaders of the 'African American' community.
Crooks and con men like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, savages from the 'entertainment and
sports community, people with no substance or accomplishment whatsoever are annointed as
'leaders'. No wonder the negro community has fallen into such a state of degradation.

As they say the Ku Klux Klan could never have inflicted on African Americans what they
have inflicted on themselves. It is inconceivable the negroes of 1960 New Orleans would
have sunk to the level of the Super Dome negroes of today. It took 'black empowerment' to
sink them to the low level they now find themselves in.

Invisible Scientist said at September 5, 2005 4:24 PM:

Hugh Angel;:
I find that the word "Negro" that you are using so frequently, is a little bit archaic. Can you find a better word to denote the African Americans? It seems to me that the economic forces were responsible for "sinking" the African American community to lower levels. It turns out that the best African science students in American Universities that I have met when I was a graduate student, were FOREIGN born African people educated in Europe or Africa.

Bob Badour said at September 5, 2005 10:50 PM:

Parabellum, I already answered your question. Ever since the federal government became responsible for the preventing insurrection.

Marvin said at September 6, 2005 6:55 AM:

PC Thought Police alert! PC Thought Police Alert!
Invisible Scientist arrests Hugh Angell for violating ordinance 1374 of the PC Thought Police Statutory Code. Arraignment to follow in PC Thought Police Special Court.

Thank you for your attention.

Rob said at September 6, 2005 10:27 AM:

People always say things can't be the result of genetic changes over a few generations, but someone should ask la griffe. He might respond according to his theory of thresholds that a tiny change in population means can result in a big change at the tails of a distribution. It seems possible to me that a small change in the means of some factors that correlate to crime could result in a big change in crime rate.

For eg, lets say there's a criminal quotient CQ mean 100, sd 15, peple with CQ's 145 and up commit murder and no one lower does, so the murder rate is about 1.3 in a thousand. If 2 generations of selection leave the mean at 101, then 1.6 in a thousand kill. The real threshold is a lot higher than that, so a small shift in mean gives a big change in the phenotype of interest. It is entirely possible that the change in black murder rate is a result of changing gene frequencies and culture don't matter.

Bob Badour said at September 6, 2005 11:07 AM:

Oh no! Steve vs. Le Griffe!

With all due respect to Steve, I suspect (if they would in fact disagree) that Griffe would claw Steve to shreds.

While I have not followed up on Jay's suggestion, I expect I will find Steve's argument relates to rates of illegitimacy. I agree at first flush this would appear to be entirely an issue of culture. However, what if it is in fact genetic?

Is it possible that a genetic trait causes a group average difference with respect to parenting? Is it possible that this trait increased reproductive fitness in the 20th century? Is it possible the same trait causes a group average difference with respect to criminality? Seems at least possible to me.

M.Robinson said at September 7, 2005 6:22 AM:

Yes we saw that in the recent shooting of the illegal alien Jean Charles de Menezes. I suggest you go to rural England and ask the locals what they think of the police protection they receive............]

firstly he was not illegal, and secondly it was a tragic accident, which is under investgation by an independent panel. We do not however have the situation in britain as you have in the USA where Police officers beat unconscious a black man and then an all white jury(from where most of the police oficers come from) find the police officers not guilty of any charges, I am ofcourse referring to the Rodney king incident.
Now some body will surely reply to me in the usual way of ' well thats history, things have moved on in our society'. I doubt if they have 'moved on', I suspect they have changed tactics most likely.

There is gun crime in Britian, but it in no way proportional to the USA as some are suggesting. The Metropolitan Police of London have done an excellent job in dealing with criminal gangs, but this has been carried out by good intelligence sources.

on old British values and the immigration of high crime ethnic groups have destroyed the highly civilized.................]

which particular values are you referring to?, religion no longer plays a big part in our society. a certain proportion of the younger generation of all ethnic backgrounds seem to want to emulate the gun and gang culture of the US.The prison population is riddled with criminals from the various communities.

white(english) violent crime and rape
south asians predominate for fraud
Blacks(Jamaican) for drugs offences
blacks(west africa) for fraud
Eastern europeeans for drugs and prostitution rackets
turkish for drugs

in all the above categories, there are ofcourse thieves, pick pockets, muggers etc.

Bob Badour said at September 7, 2005 8:06 AM:

Rajesh/Robinson,

"We do not however have the situation in britain as you have in the USA where Police officers beat unconscious a black man and then an all white jury"

Prove it! Where is your evidence for this assertion?

Americans do not have the situation where police can act without expecting people to observe and to record their actions.

Which is more serious, a police force who shoots an innocent man not engaged in any crime? Or a police force who uses non-lethal force to apprehend a suspect resisting arrest and fleeing the scene of an actual crime he just committed?


"There is gun crime in Britian, but it in no way proportional to the USA as some are suggesting."

Yes, I agree: according to objective measures, crime is now much worse in England than in the US.


"with unceasing attack on old British values " vs "on old British values" to "which particular values are you referring to?, religion no longer plays a big part in our society."

Exactly the original poster's point--the traditional religious values of Britain have been under unceasing attack. As for religion no longer playing a part, tell that to your nineteen co-religionists who murdered about 3000 people four years ago. Asshole!


"white(english) violent crime and rape ... turkish for drugs"

Thank you for making your bigoted prejudice so apparent for all to see.

John S Bolton said at September 7, 2005 4:11 PM:

In terms of these racial differentials, on the subject itself; there appears to be a news blackout on the mass desertion of the black police officers in NO. The racial proportions of those showing up, appear to have massively shifted from majority black, to majority white. This is what an antimerit society of racial patronage generates; a horde of sinecure holders who find it risible that they should have to do anything, even in a disaster of the kind that happens only once a century.

Jay Z said at September 7, 2005 6:06 PM:

"as for religion no longer playing a part, tell that to your
nineteen co-religionists who murdered about 3000 people four years ago."

Um, Bob. He's Hindu.

crush41 said at September 7, 2005 7:00 PM:

In terms of these racial differentials, on the subject itself; there appears to be a news blackout on the mass desertion of the black police officers in NO. The racial proportions of those showing up, appear to have massively shifted from majority black, to majority white.

That would be fascinating for someone to follow up on. I wonder if there's anyway to get a hold of who exactly the ~1200 police remaining on the job are.

Bob Badour said at September 7, 2005 7:23 PM:

Jay,

What makes you say that?

Jay Z said at September 7, 2005 8:51 PM:

His name is Rajesh Patel. Ancestry.com claims that Patel is a Hindu or Parsi name. So I doubt he's Muslim.

Randall Parker said at September 7, 2005 10:23 PM:

Jay Z,

Kenelm Digby says M.Robinson is Rajesh Patel. But Kenelm has yet to say why he believes this.

I can tell you that the first day M.Robinson posted on my blog another guy named N.Vikram posted in the same thread from the same IP address.

Kenelm Digby said at September 8, 2005 3:44 AM:

"Rajesh Patel" is of course, a generic name for a Hindu Indian, just like "M.Robinson" is a generic name for an Anglo-Saxon, used in his little deceit.

M.Robinson said at September 8, 2005 6:36 AM:

Or a police force who uses non-lethal force to apprehend a suspect resisting arrest and fleeing the scene of an actual crime he just committed?.............bob badour]
I would wonder if you would call it non-lethal, if you were at the receiving end of the BEATING, with all those broken bones and not being able to speak correctly because of a broken jaw, and were the police officers not acquitted of the crime?

the traditional religious values of Britain have been under unceasing attack...........bob badour]

Religion has been diminishing even before any major immigration to Britain. It was in the late fifties and sixties that religion started to fade. I an not aware of which internal/external infleunces that you are referring to, because the major infleunce in british society has come from the USA.

bob badour......Asshole!]

how truly civil you are in your discourse, when unable to argue a point then turn to verbal assault. You seem to assume that all White anglo-saxons will agree with your ideas on this blog, well people you are quite mistaken, what you really need to do is remove yourselves from the cocoon of a world that you live in, because in Britain I have friends who are Christian, muslim, hindu and sikhs. I was brought up in multicultural society which was to my liking.

You can argue on my identity all you want, all I can say I am who I say I am.

Martin Bauer said at September 8, 2005 11:47 AM:

Bob, I suggest you go back on our little discussion in the "It's the Immigration Stupid" thread and try searchingly to find out if you may not detect the difference between a constrained and a restrained way of conduct, e.g. in the choice of one's words. For I could bet it Mr. Robinson was absolutely sure he found your last comment wanting in the latter quality, not the former.

Bob Badour said at September 8, 2005 4:55 PM:

Martin,

I don't waste time looking for imaginary differences among synonyms. They are synonyms. If you don't know what that means, open a dictionary. I know that's not quite as convenient as blithely redefining another person's language, but oh well.


Rajesh/Robinson/Vikram,

I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that because a person sustained injuries while resisting arrest or because some consider the force used slightly excessive, that the force used was necessarily lethal force? I guess if someone strikes you in the jaw and breaks it, you would expect the police to lay a charge of attempted murder? Do I understand you correctly?

"It was in the late fifties and sixties that religion started to fade"

The unceasing attack began in the 19th century and really picked up steam after WWI. If one accepts your facts, one notes it took at least 40 years--or about 2 generations--for the unceasing attack to significantly erode the central institutions of british culture and values. What is your point? Are you trying to prove the original poster's assertion regarding the unceasing attack on the traditional religious values of Britain?


"the major infleunce in british society has come from the USA."

Are you suggesting socialism is mostly an American invention? Are you suggesting British imperialist guilt is an American invention? Are you suggesting the Americans exported the industrial revolution to Britain? Your assertions don't seem to have any connection to objective reality.


What do you want me to say? You are an asshole. You are not here to engage in anything resembling learned discussion. You are here simply to regurgitate big lies that have long been discredited by anyone with a functioning brain. You are here to claim anyone who disagrees with you is a racist. You are here to pull wild assertions from your rectum and project your intellectual dishonesty onto those who actually value facts, logic and reason. Given that you post under a variety of pseudonyms, I note you lack anything resembling character, courage or conviction. I could go on, but "asshole" sums it all up.


Do you honestly think anyone here is unaware of the bigoted prejudice and intellectual bankruptcy of most of the anglo-saxon world? I respectfully suggest we all know just how blinkered the politically correct crowd are. Those you find here are not the one's safely tucked away in a cocoon. While one or two who contribute to these comments may be bigoted or prejudiced, I find the majority of thoughtful posters here just that thoughtful.


By the way, who do you say you are? Clearly nothing you write is grounded in fact. What ideology do you adhere to?

John S Bolton said at September 8, 2005 7:42 PM:

Hopefully these ad hominem exchanges have stopped. Was this about an attempt at saying everybody does it why can't we? That would be a rejection of morality, wouldn't it? I can't imagine an event in Britain which could excuse the mass desertion of the black officers in NO, at the moment of crisis and need, displaying abject depravity and horrific loss of solidarity and community of values of even the very lowest order. If this happened as stated, what is the moral standing of those who would try to make excuses for such misbehavior, citing, of all the irrelevant facts in the world, the existence of racial feeling in Britain? Perhaps it was an attempt at racebaiting, or something of that sort; but this would still not justify those who responded to that, while failing to drive home the point that a scandalous attempt at excusing the worst mass collapse of community of values in the US, in who knows how long, happened in the black community of NO, from bottom to top.

M.Robinson said at September 14, 2005 7:35 AM:

Are you suggesting socialism is mostly an American invention? Are you suggesting British imperialist guilt is an American invention? Are you suggesting the Americans exported the industrial revolution to Britain? Your assertions don't seem to have any connection to objective reality......]

From which century do define as VAlues being at a peak, and then stagnating downwardly in your opinion?


mass desertion of the black officers in NO................]

Well upto now we have not had such a catastrophe, but on occasions British police oficers have shown resolve and done their duty. Now it is possible that there are highert proportion of black police officers in the NO police force, and many would be from NO themselves and including their families, as such their main desire could have been to look ater their families interst first and so left their posts. Quite a while back there were the riots in brixton, and the Police did a fine job in dealing with the culprits(there was no instance of gun use). we would most probably require the services of the armed forces if there was a major catastrophe, because we do not have units such as the national guard.

what would not be tolerated by the authorities is for a Police officer to leave his/her post without good reason. if it was found out that they showed negligence on carrying out duties, then as such they would be reprimanded and given punishment in relation to the violation, that is irrespective o colour, and Police oicers themselves are aware of this fact, but in the main it is about professionalism and dedication.

John S Bolton said at September 21, 2005 2:12 AM:

This was a diversity disaster. Prodiversity, as in antimerit recruitment policies, decimates community of values and solidarity in the population. Police skipping out en masse at the hour of crisis, atrocities against children; are these the instances of diversity of behavior and belief that should be valued?

Slade said at September 22, 2005 10:23 AM:

Kudos to you Randall,
I have to agree with Mark though on many levels. I am from New Orleans, and in fact i am a New Orleans police officer on medical leave/disability LWP. I left the city before Katrina and have since relocated. Many whites left the city long ago, I lived outside the city in Slidell, there is no where i could live in NO and feel safe with a wife and children. I won't criticize any officers who left during Katrina, i'm sure i know a few that did, heck I did. But, i wasn't expected to stay. I will probably never go back. I won't miss it. There is much racial conflict throughout the NOPD, many racist cops both black and white, the majority, i feel, however are black. BTW the black police officer in the posted 'Looting' pic with DVDs was my old FTO, Officer Herman franklin. I'm glad i left. Nothing will change in the rebuild of New Orleans.
You can take people out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of people.
I feel bad for the people in other states or cities that have to deal with this new influx of ignorance.

Mark said at September 27, 2005 1:43 PM:

Looks like the NOPD Superintendent Eddie Compass is going down for the NOPD failures during and after Katrina. Will be interesting to see what other heads roll in the near future. In my opinion, it's kind of unfair that Eddie takes the rap for this while his bossess get off scott-free.


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