2005 June 02 Thursday
Korans Donated To Libraries Call Jews Apes And Swine
The Council on American-Islamic Relations is distributing free Korans to US libraries that refer to Jews as pigs and apes.
The particular edition, however, "The Meaning of the Holy Quran," previously was banned by the Los Angeles school district because commentary notes accompanying the text were regarded as anti-Semitic.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations has included the edition in the Islamic book-package it offers libraries nationwide and now is giving it away to help "improve America's image" through a program called "Explore the Quran."
They aren't trying to improve America's image. They are trying to recruit more believers to Islam.
Ali's rendering of Surah (Chapter) 2:65 of the Quran, which reads like most English versions, says: "And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed. In the matter of the Sabbath; we said to them: 'Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
In his corresponding note, Ali says: "There must have been a Jewish tradition about a whole fishing community in a seaside town, which persisted in breaking the Sabbath and were turned into apes."
Under the heading "Jews" in the book's index, is a reference to Surah 5:60, which says: " ... Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some he transformed into apes and swine ... ."
In the index under "Jews" also are these phrases: "cursed," "enmity of," "greedy of life," "slew prophets," "took usury," "unbelief and blasphemy of" and "work iniquity."
The article goes on to discuss whether the interpretive footnotes in this particular translation are within the mainstream of Muslim Koran interpretation. The problem for Jews is not just in the footnotes. The problem is in the original text and the mainstream interpretations of the original text. A lot of Westerners don't seem to be able to get their minds around the idea that beliefs they hold to be extreme are widely accepted in other cultures and religions.
As MEMRI reports calling Jews descendants of pigs and apes is pretty standard fare in the Middle East.
Depicting Jews and sometimes also Zionists as "the descendants of
apes and pigs" is extremely widespread today in public discourse in the
Arab and Islamic worlds.
For example, in a weekly sermon in April 2002, Al-Azhar Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni Muslim world, called the Jews "the enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs."
In one of his sermons, Saudi sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, imam and preacher at the Al-Haraam mosque the most important mosque in Mecca
beseeched Allah to annihilate the Jews. He also urged the Arabs to
give up peace initiatives with them because they are "the scum of the
human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and
agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes
"Read history," called Al-Sudayyis in another sermon, "and you
will understand that the Jews of yesterday are the evil fathers of the
Jews of today, who are evil offspring, infidels, distorters of
[others'] words, calf-worshippers, prophet-murderers,
prophecy-deniers... the scum of the human race 'whom Allah cursed and
turned into apes and pigs...' These are the Jews, an ongoing continuum
of deceit, obstinacy, licentiousness, evil, and corruption..."
In a sermon at the Said Al-Jandoul mosque in Al-Taif, Saudi sheikh Ba'd bin Abdallah Al-Ajameh Al-Ghamidi
explained that "the qualities of the Jews" were present at all times
and in all places: "The current behavior of the brothers of apes and
pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy
places... is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the
early period of Islam which proves the great similarity between all
the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam."
In an August 2001 sermon, Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority official and imam of the Sheikh Ijlin mosque, Gaza City's main mosque,
called on the Palestinian people to forget their internal disagreements
and turn all weapons against Jews: "lances must be directed at the
Jews, the enemies of Allah, the nation accursed in Allah's book. Allah
described [them] as apes and pigs, calf-worshipers, idol-worshippers..."
Seeing Jews as "descendants of apes and pigs" is common also in
Shi'ite Islam. Such statements appear, for instance, in a 1998 speech
by Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah on the occasion of the Shi'ite 'Ashoura
holiday. Nasrallah regretted that the holiday fell "on the 50th
anniversary of the bitter and distressing historical catastrophe of the
establishment of the state of the grandsons of apes and pigs the
Zionist Jews on the land of Palestine and Jerusalem." He closed his
speech with these words: "... We reaffirm the slogan of the struggle
against the Great Satan and call, like last year: 'Death to America. To
the murderers of the prophets, the grandsons of apes and pigs,' we say:
... 'Death to Israel...'"
These statements are made not only by clerics and preachers.
Following their lead, public opinion leaders in the Arab world also
call the Jews "the descendants of apes and pigs." The image has
pervaded the public consciousness, even in child-rearing. In May 2002, Iqraa, the Saudi-Egyptian satellite television station, which according to its website
sets for itself the goals of "highlighting aspects of Arab Islamic
culture that inspire respect," "highlighting the true and tolerant
picture of Islam and refuting the accusations directed against Islam,"
and "planting a spirit of mutual understanding and dialogue among
members of the nation and opening channels of cultural connection with
the cultures of other nations," interviewed a three-and-a-half-year-old
"real Muslim girl" about Jews. On "The Muslim Woman Magazine" program,
the girl was asked whether she liked Jews; she answered, "no." When
asked why she didn't like them, she said that Jews were "apes and
pigs." "Who said this?" the moderator asked. The girl answered, "Our
God." "Where did He say this?" "In the Koran." At the end of the
interview, the pleased moderator said: "No [parents] could wish for
Allah to give them a more believing girl than she... May Allah bless
her, her father and mother. The next generation of children must be
true Muslims. We must educate them now while they are children, so that
they will be true Muslims."
These people aren't going to change unless they lose faith in Islam. We should stop all Muslim immigration into the United States and Europe and stop pretending that all the religions and cultures of the world are compatible with each other.
As long as we're going to stop Muslim (read: Arab) immigration to the United States for having an incompatible religion (rather than the reason we should bar them - incompatible genetics) we may as well bar the Jews who call US "cattle."
The Jewish Talmud is chock-full of insulting references to Christians in particular, and all non-Jews (Gentiles or 'goyim' meaning 'cattle') in general. I don't have at my disposal this moment the exact quotes, but a search engine will find them under "Talmud quotes."
There are passages to the effect that Jesus rots in hell, being boiled eternally in hot donkey semen. There are exhortations not to steal from fellow Jews, but stealing from Gentiles is not a crime, since we are but chattel for God's chosen. As well, the Talmud condones paedophilia, as long as the children are at least three years old. I could continue, but it only gets more disgusting, and I don't want anyone to just take my word for it. Look it up yourself!
Clearly Jewish religion is incompatible with Western values and traditions. Our wisest move would be to follow the example of every European country (at whatever point in history) and expel the Jews right along with their Middle Eastern cousins.
This, at least, is the inevitable result of ignoring the issue of race, and attempting to find other reasons to protect White American hegemony.
I agree with the post 100 percent. For the record, it's only fair to point out that Jesus calls a bunch of Rabbis sons of 'the other,' which has been interpreted to refer to Satan. The difference to me is that Christians, especially American Christians and the Catholic Church, now read the Gospels in a way that is far more generous to today's Jews than was done in the time of say, Constantine or Torquemada. My point is that the Koran is problematic not just because of it's content, but because of the interpretation of it's content.
As far as Mike Wood is concerned, let me just say that the Talmud is not only a record of law, but of debates between Rabbis as well as stories. Most of the stuff that Wood sees in the Talmud comes from that. Furthermore, all Jews are supposed to follow the Noahide laws which prevent stealing, adultery, murder from anyone to anyone Jew/non-Jew included. And, at the end of the day, the proof is in the behavior of the people who use text. In all my conversations and Talmud study with all manner of Jews, I have yet to find one who condones any of the behaviors specified by Mr. Wood. He should try reading the Pirkei Avot to see what Jews really concentrate on as far as ethics is concerned. It should go without saying that if Jews en-mass were going around having sex with three-year olds and treating non-Jews like chattel at a level significantly higher than the statistical average for people, it'd be noticed by more people than Mr. Wood.
Your argument would be more convincing if you had links to a web site that has the Talmud online. When I have pointed to the Koran's problems I've often posted links to the USC's Koran online since they provide a way to link to specific verses. Don't know if the Talmud has an equivalent site. Check out the MSA-USC Qur'an Database.
I have no idea what is in the Talmud. But I haven't come across evidence that Jews going around committing pedophilia at a rate higher than other groups.
The etymology of goy and goyim does not appear to support your claim that it means cattle.
I don't mind if people disagree with me or with each other. But do try to bring verifiable facts to the discussions.
You aware of a searchable Talmud online?
Literal translation of "Goy" is "Nation" (or "Other Nation"), or a person from such Other Nation. "Goyim" is simply the plural. It took on negative connotations over the centuries in Europe (in my view, a verbal response to actual discrimination by the largely anti-Semitic people and governments (similar to the African-American use of the terms "honkey" and "cracker").
Wood, go learn.
There is no doubt in my mind that somewhere, someone is working on a searchable online Talmud. However, the English translations are, as far as I know, copyrighted. There is a CD-ROM version of the Soncino edition for about $35, which is probably very difficult to read without help. Just look on Amazon. The better versions are the Artscroll Edition and the Steinsaltz Edition because the commentary is modern and helpful to the more casual reader-- Steinsaltz has made it his life's work to translate the Talmud into as many languages as possible.
If you're looking for understanding the philosophies and history of the Talmud, by far the best book is 'Everyman's Talmud' by Abraham Cohen, where he distill's the Talmud's views on just about everything into a very readable 300 or so pages. If you're looking for specific quotes, you'll just have to get the full CD rom version.
There must be older Talmud translations into English from the 19th or early 20th century that are out of copyright. Jews lived in Britain and America in the 19th century. Surely some of them must have translated it.
I'd be willing to bet that all the various religious rule books have passages that relegate non-members to sub-human. Drawing a conclusion from any one of them is less illuminating than the conclusion that could be drawn from considering the bile in all such books.
Also, arabic is apparently notoriously difficult to accurately translate because of its circumlocutions. I'm not saying the translations are wrong - just suggesting caution.
This wiki topic is the best I could find. Particularly see the 'Charges of racism' entry.
This appears to be an english translation of the Talmud (linked from the previously mentioned wiki entry).
Good Find, Stephen! I was wrong.
Mike wood makes an interesting point. Americans have allowed america to be drawn foolishly into the ancient arab-jewish feud.
Actually, serious anti-semitism in the middle east is pretty recent. It mostly started with nazi influence around WWII, and rose further with the establishment of Israel. Before that the middle east was a much better place for jews to live than eastern or western europe (compare the tolerant treatment of jews under muslim rule in Spain, versus the persecution under the inquisition after the christian reconquering of Spain).
Jews went to Israel for safety, and religious meaning, but it is perceived as a colony of the US and Britain. This is for good reason: the new state of Israel was recognized by the US in good part for it's perceived value as a "non-sinkable aircraft carrier" (from a quote by Eisenhower). The US and Britain have indeed acted in a colonial fashion, with their interventions in the middle east (like Britain partitioning the former colonies of Turkey to their own purposes in the 20's; the US overthrowing democracy in Iran in 1954; and the US's invasion of Iraq under a false banner of WMD), which have caused so much resentment.
Currently the US supported autocracies in the middle east use Israel as a scapegoat (state supported newspapers carry outrageous lies about Israel in even the most US-friendly countries, like Egypt). It should not be surprising that anti-semitism is flourishing. It might end if the US really wanted to pressure these countries to stop it, but the US cares more about "stability" in this oil producing region, and the leadership of these countries sees Israel bashing as an important distraction for their population from dangerous ideas like democracy.
This might seem puzzling, in light of the US's current push toward democracy in Iraq. It's important to remember that democracy was not our goal, just regime change. Once we were there, it became clear that a regime with democratic legitimacy was the US's only hope of a successful exit strategy. The US talks about democracy in general, because there is the beginning of a faintly dawning awareness that that is the best hope of long-term stability, but there isn't a serious commitment there.
So, we see that there are concrete reasons for the current wave of anti-semitism. We should keep that in mind. It's not helpful to assume that muslims are genetically irrational.
There are many English editions of the Talmud.
The Sensino, The Artscroll ect.
As for the term 'Goy' it was never meant as a slur, i does mean simply 'nation' or 'non-jew' in Eroupe were the jews were oppressed they might have siad' that drunk goy beat up pur Uncle today' but here in the US most jews love non-jews espectally white non-jews and want to assimilate- they want to be 'like the goy' themselfs- so you wont hear a jew sayying 'stupid goy' but unfortonatly you will hear jews saying'now son in school you stay away from the shvartas(blacks)' or 'a shvarta stole my sons bike'
Like the "Protocols", the so-called "Talmud quotes" are simply forgeries. Purely forgeries. There are plenty of Talmud translations, just mostly not online. If you are near a University library or something, you can see the real deal. All that crap about pedophilia, cheating "goyim" in business, etc. etc. are LIES, LIES, LIES by savage Jew-haters reaching out to particularly gullible people. Or stupid people, in the case of A.J.
and Nick, you know no history if you think Muslim anti-Judaism started in the Hitler era. It was well before.
Meanwhile, everyone, don't forget about the Mizrahi people. www.jimena-justice.org
Nice try, I have heard your lies before too. So I went to my public library, and, lo and behold, they had a live copy of the Soncino Talmud. I looked up about 20 passages, including the one about Jesus being boiled eternally in semen and sex with a three year-old being OK and Goyim being swine and beasts, and THEY WERE ALL IN THERE. So stop spreading your lies.
The truth is out there.
Forget the bigotted issues. You will find these in all religious traditions, the smaller the group.
Let's talk about this: "Be ye pigs and swine".
Is actually proof that the Koran teaches spiritual evolution/regression through reincarnation.
"And were wont to say: 'What! after we have died, and become dust and bones, shall we be raised? And our fathers, the men of yore?'
SAY: Aye, the former and the latter: Gathered shall they all be for the time of a known day.
Then ye, O ye the erring, the gainsaying,
Shall surely eat of the tree EzZakkoum,
And fill your bellies with it,
And thereupon shall ye drink boiling water,
And ye shall drink as the thirsty camel drinketh.
This shall be their repast in the day of reckoning!
We created you, will ye not credit us?
What think ye? The germs of life,
Is it ye who create them? or are we their creator?
It is we who have decreed that death should be among you;
Yet are we not thereby hindered from replacing you with others, your likes, or from producing you again in a form which ye know not!
Ye have known the first creation: will ye not then reflect?" (Koran 56:47-62)
So here we are informed not only that man is never aware that he is actually ALWAYS resurrected from the dead ("we decreed that death should be among you", rather than "you shall all die"), but also that he has been there from the very start of the universe and can still witness that elemental world around him today ("germs of life").
But the human mind is not satiated easily, of course:
"And he meeteth us with arguments, and forgetteth his own creation: 'Who,' saith he, 'shall give life to bones when they are rotten?'
SAY: He shall give life to them who gave them being at first, for in all creation is he skilled:
Who even out of the green tree hath given you fire, and lo! ye kindle flame from it." (36:78-80)
A question for believers: What happens to those who are not sent to Hell or allowed to enter Heaven though they are forgiven?
"God taketh souls unto Himself at death; and during their sleep those who do not die: and he retaineth those on which he hath passed a decree of death, but sendeth the others back till a time that is fixed. Herein are signs for the reflecting." (39:42)
So here we are told that it is the souls that are taken up and that those who didn't die peacefully may be sent back again. Nothing is mentioned about the physical body being put together out of the bones in the grave or any other kind of popular understanding.
"How can ye withhold faith from God, seeing that ye were dead and He gave you life? Next He will cause you to die; next He will restore you to life: next shall ye return to Him!" (2:6-29)
"So, Mankind! if ye have doubts about the Resurrection, consider that truly We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then of clots of blood, then of pieces of flesh shapen and unshapen, that We might give you proofs of our power!
And We cause one sex or the other, at our pleasure, to abide in the womb until the appointed time; then We bring you forth infants; then permit you to reach your age of strength;
And some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known much. And thou hast seen the earth dried up and barren: but when We send down the rain upon it, it stirreth and swelleth, and groweth every kind of luxuriant herb." (22:5)
And thus it is established that resurrection in itself is nothing but reincarnation ("so that they know nothing after having known much"). And this in a scripture of a religion that denies such a concept. Moreover, rebirth is the actual means of personal and universal evolution:
"What hath come to you that ye hope not for goodness from the hand of God [yet ALWAYS expecting things from others]? For He it is who hath formed you by successive steps (see below).
See ye not how God hath created the seven heavens one over the other [like a perfect clock]? And He hath placed therein the moon as a light, and hath placed there the sun as a torch;
And God hath caused you to spring forth from the earth like a plant; Hereafter will He turn you back into it again, and will bring you forth anew.
And God hath spread the earth for you like a carpet, That ye may walk therein along spacious paths." (71:13-20)
Rumi maintained about his Masnavi that it clarifies the essence meaning of the Koran.
Hermelin's Persian Anthology;
from the chapter on Rumi:
9. WHAT DEATH IS
From the lifelessness  I died. And growing  I became.
From the world of plants  I died. I raised myself to animal .
From the animal kingdom I died. A human being I became.
Why should I then have `fear'? When has the death maimed or
Upon the next attack shall I be dying from the `man';
So that I may lift my wing and head `mong angels then.
And, yes, from the `angelhood' likewise I leap will have to
out of the river.
"All living things must be destroyed and vanished, except and
only for His Face."
Yet once again a victim will I be, this time I'll dying be away
from `mong those angels;
And then be THAT, which no eye has seen, nor ear has heard, nor any
human thought imagined. (Isaiah 64:4)
Become I shall the Non-Existence. Which speaks to me with a roaring
voice of organ: "To Him shall we assuredly return."
So as for death then, wit it is but `that', concerning which
confessors of Islam are in agreement over:
"The Water Life of, that in darkness hath abode." (Masnavi, III, v. 3901-3907)
 -- the non-organic;
 -- the organic;
 -- the flora and vegetable kingdom;
 -- the fauna and animal kingdom;
 -- "Zi zulmat ma tars-aai passandeedah doost!
Kee mumkin buvad, k'Aab-e-Haivaan dar oo'st."
"Fear not the darkness (or oppression), friend, which has been
For it is possible, that the Life Water is hiding there."
From www.online-bible.org :
"I died as inanimate matter and arose a plant,
I died as a plant and rose again an animal. 5
I died as an animal and arose a man.
Why then should I fear to become less by dying?
I shall die once again as a man
To rise an angel perfect from head to foot!
Again when I suffer dissolution as an angel,
I shall become what passes the conception of man!
Let me then become non-existent, for non-existence
Sings to me in organ tones, 'To him shall we return.' 6
Know death to be the gathering together of the people.
The water of life is hidden in the land of darkness.
Like a water-lily seek life there!"
"I know I am deathless. We have thus far exhausted trillions of winters and summers. There are trillions ahead, and trillions ahead of them." -- Whalt Whitman (Leaves of Grass, The Viking Press, New York 1965, p. 43.)
"I did not begin when I was born, nor when I was conceived. I have been growing, developing, through incalculable myriads of millenniums. . . . All my previous selves have their voices, echoes, promptings, in me. . . . Oh! Incalculable times again shall I be born. . . . There is no death." -- Jack London (The Star Rover, Macmillan Co., 1943, p. 241-42.)
"I did not find it at all difficult to imagine that I might have lived centuries ago; and that I encountered problems that I still not able to solve at that time; therefore I had to get born again for not having been able to accomplish the task received." -- Carl Jung (Memories, Dreams and Reflections, Pantheon, 1963, p. 323.)
"We choose our next world through what we learn in this one
But you, you learned so much at one time that you didn't have to go through a thousand lives to reach this one." -- Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston (Pan Books Ltd., 1973, p. 54.)
"The wise priest knows he now must reap the fruits of deeds of former births. For be they many or but few, deeds done in covetousness or hate, or through infatuation's power, must bear their needful consequence. Hence not to covetousness, nor hate, nor to infatuation's power the wise priest yields, but knowledge seeks and leaves the way to punishment." -- (Anguttara Nikaya 3:33; Garland Sutra 10, p. 188.)
"Put not off from day to day and from cycle to cycle, in the belief that ye will succeed in obtaining the mysteries, When ye return to the world in another cycle." -- Shri Jesus Christ (Pistis Sophia)
"By the turn of the century, it is likely that among the most preposterous will be the idea that we only have one life to live." -- Sybil Leek
"My opinion is that we shall be reincarnated . . . and that hereafter we shall suffer or benefit in accordance with what we have done in this world. For example, the employer who sweats his workpeople will be condemned to be sweated himself . . ." -- David Llyod George (British Prime Minister 1916-1922)
"A hundred years ago Bedlam would have been the place for anyone who voiced the fact that in the future we would be able to communicate with countries across the sea by seeing and hearing - or with men on the moon. In a century to come perhaps science and regressive hypnotism will have finally proven the fact of our many
lives." -- Clarice Toyne
"If you want to know the past, look at your present life. If you want to know the future, look at your present." -- Gautama Buddha
"Rebirth is an affirmation that must be counted among the primordial affirmations of mankind." -- Carl Jung
"We all return; it is this certainty that gives meaning to life and it does not make the slightest difference whether or not in a later incarnation we remember the former life. What counts is not the individual and his comfort, but the great aspiration to the perfect and the pure which goes on in each incarnation." -- Gustav Mahler (1860-1911)
In the light of the above Lord Jesus speaks out in the Aquarian Gospel, Chapter XXXII (www.fatherhurley.com/ag):
1. Among the Buddhist priests was one who saw a lofty wisdom in the words that Jesus spoke. It was Barata Arabo.
2. Together Jesus and Barata read the Jewish Psalms and Prophets; read the Vedas, the Avesta and the wisdom of Gautama.
3. And as they read and talked about the possibilities of man, Barata said,
4. Man is the marvel of the universe. He is part of everything for he has been a living thing on every plane of life.
5. Time was when man was not; and he was bit of formless substance in the moulds of time; and then a protoplast.
6. By universal law all things tend upward to a state of perfectness. The protoplast evolved, becoming worm, then reptile, bird and beast, and then at last it reached the form of man.
7. Now, man himself is mind, and mind is here to gain perfection by experience; and mind is often manifest in fleshy form, and in the form best suited to its growth. So mind may manifest as worm, or bird, or beast, or man.
8. The time will come when everthing of life will be evolved unto the state of perfect man.
9. And after man is man in perfectness, he will evolve to higher forms of life.
10. And Jesus said, Barata Arabo, who taught you this, that mind, which is the man, may manifest in flesh of beast, or bird, or creeping thing?
11. Barata said, From times which man remembers not our priests have told us so, and so we know.
12. And Jesus said, Enlightened Arabo, are you a master mind and do not know that man knows naught by being told?
13. Man may believe what others say; but thus he never knows. If man would know, he must himself be what he knows.
14. Do you remember, Arabo, when you were ape, or bird, or worm?
15. Now, if you have no better proving of your plea than that the priests have told you so, you do not know; you simply guess.
16. Regard not, then, what any man has said; let us forget the flesh, and go with mind into the land of fleshless things; mind never does forget.
17. And backward through the ages master minds can trace themselves; and thus they know.
18. Time never was when man was not.
19. That which begins will have an end. If man was not, the time will come when he will not exist
Most of us Muslims are not Anti-Semetic but actually see Jewish people as brothers and sisters. The references in the Holy Qur'an that are taken as Anti-Semitic are not addressed to Jewish people in general. But to specific communities in the Prophets time who made a peace treaty with the early Muslims and broke it, then declared war on the Muslims siding with the pagans of Mecca. Jewish people (and Christians as well) we refer to as the "People of the Book" because God gave the Hebrew Prophets and Jesus scripture just as he did Mohammad.
Our problems with Israel are against the policies of that government not the people of the Jewish race.
Ibrahim (Alan) Nicholoplus
The Talmud doesn't condone sex with three year olds. It merely tries to set a bar on to when *assume a woman is a virgin*. Girls younger than three years are automatically considered virgin. Girls older than three years aren't, because the Talmud assumes she *might* have been raped by, e.g. someone following some cult leader's example.
The tolerance in Muslim Spain just another edition of the myths of golden ages. Here is what Maimonides, the most illustrious Jewish rabbi from Andalusia wrote about it:
"...the Arabs have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us...Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they..."