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2003 October 23 Thursday
One Year Of Illegal Alien Health Care Costs Would Pay For Border Barrier

Non-citizens cost billions per year in uninsured health care.

Non-citizens are putting the hurt on our hospitals. A study by the Florida Hospital Association estimates that uninsured non-citizens cost the state's hospitals an average of $63,612 per patient last year.

The tab is rising as the number of immigrants continues to swell from coast to coast. The American Hospital Association reported that its member facilities provided $21 billion in uncompensated health-care services last year.

While not all those costs can be attributed to undocumented aliens, new Census data show that non-citizens are, by far, this country's largest group of uninsured residents — 43 percent of the total.

The costs of health care are just one way that low skilled low wage immigrant non-citizens cost the US economy and citizens money. Keep in mind that these figures above underestimate even the medical costs of low skilled immigrants because millions of illegals were granted citizenship thru amnesties and a large portion of them are uninsured. Also, the costs above do not include costs at government clinics and private practices or the costs of the US citizen children who are born in the United States to illegal aliens whose parents use Medicaid and other government programs to pay their health care. Even with this narrow definition on the costs of low skilled immigrants for health care the cost for less than a single year of paying the health care of non-citizens would pay for a barrier to keep illegal aliens from crossing into the United States from Mexico. Various cost estimates (see here and here and here) for the West Bank-Israel fence structure , if extrapolated to the longer US border with Mexico, suggest that the US could stop the flow of illegal aliens from Mexico for a cost of between $2 billion and $8 billion dollars. The range of cost estimates reflects the fact that the Israelis are building more and less formidable barriers in different sections depending on perceived risk. If we go for the more deluxe barrier structure for the entire border it would still cost less than a single year of uninsured and unpaid health care bills run up by non-citizens living within the US borders.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2003 October 23 11:06 AM  Immigration Economics


Comments
pat said at January 14, 2004 9:11 PM:

Illegal aliens are a source of strain on the welfare system, the criminal justice system, and the education system.
And while the costs are amplified, tax collection from illegal aliens is miniscule:
"The Los Angeles Times reports that 950,000 illegals live in the five counties comprising the greater Los Angeles area.
Their economic activity is mostly underground, which means the employers pay low cash wages, no overtime,
no benefits and no taxes. ... John Chiang of the State Board of Equalization, California's tax oversight agency,
estimates that the state loses $7 billion a year in unpaid taxes because of the underground sector."
And while the tax collections are miniscule, the payments to immigrant groups overall is large:
"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that 30.6 percent of Hispanics receive means-tested government benefits
compared to 9 percent of whites."
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=4170&catcode=11
Education also takes a hit due to illegal immigration. The same source notes:
"Even though California spends $2.2 billion to educate children
who are illegally in this country, nearly half of Hispanic adults have not graduated from high school."
The total cost nationwide to teach children of illegal aliens is $7.4 billion nationwide.
The cost extends into the area of crime and law enforcement.
"Almost 25 percent of all inmates in California prisons are from Mexico." begging the question,
why arent they deported? Which would only beg the response, if they are deported, how can you
stop them from coming back? These costs get
In the latest Medicare bill, the Federal Government is picking up the tab for illegal alien health care:
U.S. hospitals in border states provide at least $200 million a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegal aliens.

"Mr Borjas, an economist at the University of California, San Diego, and Stephen Trejo,
another economist at that university's Santa Barbara campus, completed a research paper
in 1990 looking at immigrant population in the welfare system. Its findings dispel the myth
widely propagated that only economic benefits arise from rising immigration. The two confirm
the "widespread perception that unskilled immigrants are particularly prone to enter the welfare
system, and that entry of large numbers of immigrants in the past decades has increased taxpayer
expenditures on income transfer programs"-that is, welfare and other government programs....
The two also found that immigrant households receive a higher level of welfare payments than do native households."
http://www.libreopinion.com/members/standarteslc/race04.html

Thus, many costs are offloaded from low-wage employers of illegal aliens as well as immigrants
generally to the rest of the society.

Immigrants come to benefit themselves and not necessarily our country's benefit.
Those that immigrate illegally harm our country, but ignore the laws because it benefits them.
The market for cheap labor is one that some employers welcome, as
cheap, unregulated, compliant labor is easier to manage.
So low-wage employers have an interest in preferring a system of immigration
looseness over tightness, and non-enforcement of laws are even better to
shed even worker protections. Many illegal alien employees are escaping more extreme poverty and
so accept their situation. While the benefits are privatized - cheap compliant labor for employers,
and job opportunities and Government aid for the immigrants - the costs
of illegal immigration are socialized:
healthcare, crime, public services costs, the various costs of displacing American workers.

Jack Yedvobnick said at March 3, 2004 5:56 AM:

One factor hasn't been considered. What is the economic value of that cheap labor to the American economy? Does that value offset the costs enumerated above? It it does, then I'd say keep the status quo. If it doesn't... build that fence on the Mexican border!

Randall Parker said at March 3, 2004 1:25 PM:

Jack, Think about it intuitively: If the labor is worth a great deal to the economy then the labor would be paid more. The market price of a product or service is a pretty strong indicator of what it is worth.

Thomas Kendrick said at March 23, 2004 6:19 PM:

The labour is worth a great deal to American economy "because" it is not paid more. Due to the nature of the low-paid, highly competed for work, the cost for the employer is minimal. Indeed, Texas's relies very heavily on the use of cheap labour to keep its cogs turning. If all of the illegal workers were to be deported, states like this would find themselves in a very sticky situation.

Randall Parker said at March 23, 2004 7:18 PM:

Thomas, No, it is not worth more. In the parts of the country where there are few illegal aliens the work all still gets done and living standards are not appreciably different.

Also, many of the tasks done by illegal aliens could be done by machines if labor costs more. In fact, many tasks done by labor in this country are done by machines in other countries. For instance, grape picking machines are used in Australia whereas in the US the same work is done manually. The grape vineyards in Australia could get the workers if they were willing to offer more money. But they find it cheaper to use machines.

Jennifer Demby said at April 26, 2004 11:24 AM:

The major problem I have with this idea is that, no matter what you do, or how hard you try, you cannot keep people out of this country who want to be here. The border is almost 2,000 miles long. That would be like building a wall from Kansas to Miami, Flordia. And then, after you decide you want a wall, who do you think is going to build it; probably immigrants. And who is going to maintain the wall? Who is going to have to patrol the wall; probably Americans.

Yakov Lasko said at May 26, 2004 11:07 PM:

You're telling me Jen that the American army can patrol the borders of Iraq but it can't patrol its own border? Did you know that Mexican army patrols its southern border because they don't want any Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, etc. in their own country to undercut their economy?

Jack, if you still want to get cheap labor and pay little for agricultural produce why can't we have a Bario program like we did with Mexico in 1940s? At least we would know who's here and where they are. Also, taxes would be collected, crime would go down, we wouldn't have to pay for educating these workers as only adults would participate in such a program, and by letting only healthy workers come, the health costs would diminish.

Christopher Rasch said at August 23, 2004 7:59 PM:

Yakov, is the Iraqi border comparable? Is there as large a wage differential between Iraq and the border states as there is between the U.S. and Mexico? Also, what evidence is there that the Iraqi border control is actually keeping out the people we want to keep out? And if so, at what cost?

Sean Charleson said at September 12, 2004 8:23 PM:

Wouldn't it be easier to patrol our border though? I mean, in Iraq, the people we want to contain or keep out are most likely carrying assault weapons, or have an intent to harm the people patroling the border, while our border, the people just want in. It's not as though they will carry a Uzi to harm or kill US troops so they can get a job working in a grape field.

Tanisha said at October 28, 2004 11:06 AM:

I am so tired of people assuming that illegal immigrants only take jobs that nobody wants (grape fields)! Illegals are taking good paying jobs (like construction) that many Americans still want. In Virginia, a bricklaying position will pay $20+ per hour. Go by a jobsite and you will see that most of the people working there are non-English speaking Americans. After 9-11, the job market was very poor. There were countless Americans who went from upper-middle class to poverty. Most people who were raised to take care of their families and were put in that kind of situation would have taken a job where ever they could so that their children could eat! Employers prefer to hire them because they don't have to pay them as much. These illegal aliens don't pay taxes or support/help our economy! Why are so many people fighting to get them more rights? They should not receive an education, driver's licence, or health care at tax payer's expense...they are illegal and should be deported when caught! Giving them more rights will encourage them.

Kimon said at November 5, 2004 11:31 AM:

"I am so tired of people assuming that illegal immigrants only take jobs that nobody wants (grape fields)!" Interesting assuming this is true wouldn't be the employers who are at fault?

"In Virginia, a bricklaying position will pay $20+ per hour. Go by a jobsite and you will see that most of the people working there are non-English speaking Americans." If the are americans then they would not be ilegal and would be entitled to the same opportunities as english speaking americans.

"There were countless Americans who went from upper-middle class to poverty." You don't think the loss of manufacturing jobs because of corporations moving those jobs overseas becuase of tax breaks is a bigger part of the problem?

"These illegal aliens don't pay taxes or support/help our economy!" If they are working for cash then it is their employers who are not paying the taxes, and If they live in the US and consume food, purchase medicine, pay for housing or goods and services then they do support the economy.

It is unfortunate that bigotry and predjuduce can bread ignorance. The next time you go to the store and purchase food thank the ilegal for harvesting it for poverty level wages, poor working conditions and acting as a slave for corporate America.

Ignorance is bliss, blame the problem on the aliens not on your self for complaining about paying a fair price for goods and services. Happily having your lawn cut, house cleaned food harvested by folks forced to live on the fringe of society and work almost as slaves with no hope of a better way or fair or equal treatment.

"They should not receive an education, driver's licence, or health care at tax payer's expense"
Instead whe should continue a policy of slave labor and second class non-citezens.

NO HUMAN IS ILLEGAL

Yakov Lasko said at November 26, 2004 3:57 AM:

Good points, but you missed my point.

I was simply stating and asking this question at the same time:
"Why are we so eager to patrol other people's borders when we can do nothing about our own?" Shouldn't we at least try and get back the control over our borders?

Alexis said at December 7, 2004 11:35 AM:

This entire article is a disgrace to the very idea of being an American. Our country was founded on people who weren't wanted here, yet people of European desent run this democracy. As for your comment on the fact the illegal aliens don't help our economy or pay taxes. That is false. In fact, most people who employ illegals to work for them double the taxes that are taken out of their checks. Furthermore, who are you or anyone else to deny a person an education. That is beyond heartless and we might as well just throw the entire constitution out of the window. This article sounds as though it were written by a back woods reckneck that belongs to the klu klux klan determined to uphold somesort of Nazi regime and give all of us blonde hair and blue eyes. Yes, in this case, I completely agree the government should pay closer attention to the education of it's citizens because apparently you lack it.

Alexis

Randall Parker said at December 7, 2004 11:48 AM:

Alexis,

Your response reads like it was written by an ignorant, irrational fool.

I didn't say that illegals pay no taxes. I said they pay far less in taxes than they receive in benefits. That is a fact.

Doubled taxes? You are deluded. In the underground economy no money is taken out of paychecks. The payments are in cash.

If anyone is allowed to come here there will be no Americans as a category separate from the rest of the nations of the world. So no one will be able to be a disgrace to America.

As for your claims of heartlessness: I want what is best for my nation. My arguments are rational. You are too irrational to understand them. Irrationality is an enemy to good government and a healthy nation. So stop being so unpatriotic and Un-American and starting thinking rationally.

Oma Shneider said at January 6, 2005 9:34 AM:

Alexis,

I applaud your comment! I felt like throwing up as I read Randal Parker’s article and his response to your comment. What a jerk!!! If he is not a Native American, he comes from an immigrant background just like any other so called “American”. The solution is not to discriminate against the hard-working people that are trying to make a decent living for their families, but to fight against the prejudice of the immigration law and legalize those who are here. Also, to help other countries so people don’t feel that the only way for them to improve theirs family’s chance of good education and decent living is moving to the US. Think globally! The US is not the only country that deserves a better chance in life. Ignorant and selfish jerks such as this person who wrote this article are the people provoking terrorism attacks and illegal practices. Do you think it’s an easy step to leave your country, family and friends to fight for a better chance for your children? Say a prayer of thanksgiving for your ancestors who gave you a chance to obtain an education and to live in decent conditions.

As to the point he stated that illegal immigrants or immigrants in general, pay fewer taxes, that’s another stupidity of his part. They pay the same amount of taxes for food, clothing, etc. than he does and the only reason they pay less income taxes is because they make less money. I’m an immigrant myself and have lived illegally in this country for 11 years waiting on my immigration papers, because the INS is such a bureaucratic and discriminatory institution.

My kids are not immigrants. They were born here and my grand children will be born here as well… I wonder if one day their grandchildren will forget all the sacrifice I had to go through, staying here for 11 years without being able to see my family, whom I dearly cherish. However, I never committed any crime, paid my taxes as any other American and paid for my health care and school.

I love this country and will always be thankful for the opportunity I’ve received. Now I’m an US citizen but will never look down on the fellow immigrants, legal or illegal that fights to give a better life to their decedents. I will always despise any type of crime such as drugs, murder, rapes, whether they are committed by a White, Black, Asian, or Hispanic immigrant.

Randall Parker said at January 6, 2005 12:36 PM:

Oma Shneider, You are being daft. Poor people pay very little in taxes. They get far more in benefits and inflict far more in costs on the rest of us than they pay in taxes.

No, not everyone in this country were immigrants. The original people who came were settlers. They brought their own culture and values and created a society in their image. They did not come to join an existing society of a different culture.

If you want to think globally then you go pay to help people in other countries. Stop inflicting the burdens of the world on me.

The discrimination in our society today comes in the from of racial preferences for blacks and Hispanics and against whites and Asians. More Hispanic immigrants means more discrimination.

Ken said at January 9, 2005 12:36 PM:

If we need illegal immigrants to work here, how did we get along for so many years without them? Most of them are uneducated and the "cheap labor" they supply ends up costing us more in taxes for them and their children's education, health care, jail costs, costs of car accidents, etc. Pay Americans a little more to do these jobs and we will all benefit. What other country in the world can YOU go to without being a citizen and receive all of the benefits we offer for free? No wonder they want to come here. I don't blame them and I would too if I were them. But the cost of them being here is not worth it! If we didn't have so many liberals who think that they should be entitled to cut in line ahead of people who are trying to become citizens legally, we would not have this cost. If these liberals are so happy to encourage illegal immigration, maybe they should "sponsor" them by having them live with them and pay for the costs of their education, health car, car insurance, etc. That would change their minds in a hurry! They would not want that responsibility (and reality)! Wake up and smell the coffee!

Can anybody objectively disagree with this? Please respond if you can.

Jefferson Macalindong said at February 1, 2005 7:22 PM:

I know is hard to believe the one words the person like me. But this is the right time to think Health care is one important here my dream country and part of my small buisness. I know I have no power and give more energy to finance my small buisness no matter you have right group and willing to work this kind of job. But I try my best to continue to solved the problem to be success and give one good example for everybody and the whole world. I hope everybody knows who person willing give care to all resident in the nursing home or hospital or others. But nobody give good hands to help them and give one chance to share the idea or solution to give big help the industry and give good part to the health care services. I hope everybody think me you everybody if you old your family you put one nursing home right but now you see nobody take care the resident and not enough enough give a good care and love, to try to come back and to feel happy no matter I'm old and I'm on nursing home or other place very important we have right person to take care with me. But now I feel bad I dont know what I gonna do because my attitude no matter who you are and you doing wrong to the people and no care the employees and only care the money and not good guide to go to be success I doing my way and I cant doing the wrong way. Because for me people is very important the whole world and the industry and all country and give big help to success and protect the world and give good example for all kids to see the people are helping together and love each other. Thats why me and all my team and all people I need your help to give good future and more life and happiest the all senior citizen here my dream country and the all country. I hope this the sign of freedom and free-country to the health care services. I know I have no money to give support my small buisness or no matter you got money if you want to use you and if you want not give the job because you never respect and never agree the all wants thats why no matter you good worker and always organized if they want you to go down no problem because we have a lot a power. I hope somebody agree the words I say. Thanks again and god bless you all.

Nate said at March 4, 2005 12:14 PM:

Does the word "illegal" mean anything to those of you who support this type of activity? Make the effort to come here LEGALLY instead of sneaking in and you will be embraced by rational citizens of this nation. There is a process for coming to this country the right way. Perhaps that system is flawed and bogged down with red tape but it exists and until it is reformed it should be adhered to. The US does not exist nor is it responsible for improving the quality of life of everyone on the planet. Our government exists to protect the rights of its legal citizens. I am sympathetic to the plight of people who grow up in countries that do not look out for their citizens in this way and do not provide the opportunities that we do. however, this does not give the entire world the right to enter our country illegally and exploit our system.

Come here legally and make your "american dream" come true. Otherwise, don't get mad when you are deported.

Sarah said at March 12, 2005 12:28 PM:

Nate, So true, so true! ILEGALS should not be here because they are illegals. Everyone just think what the word illegal means. Now think what legal means. Illegal aliens come over to our country and take our jobs, make us pay taxes, and endanger U.S. sercurity.

Brian said at March 15, 2005 3:34 PM:

Neither dems. nor republicans will ever enforce these immigration laws for fear of losing the hispanic vote. The ONLY exception is when another major terrorist attack is allowed to happen because of the lack of enforcement of existing laws. I am very sorry to say that terrorists may easily cross the mex/us border with a wmd and take out LA or Houston. Then watch how fast the equivalent to the Berlin wall or the great wall of china is built. When our citizens hold our politicians accountable we may see this immigration problem enforced. Until then pray for the citizens of our bordering cities as they are in danger because our spinless politicians dont want to lose some votes. The problen is not just about the hispanics coming across the border its the security hole we are offering to possible terrorist attacks. I have always said follow the money and you will find the answer but in this case its not the money its political.

Ed said at March 18, 2005 9:37 AM:

Mexico is undergoing a population explosion. The population has grown from 26 million in 1950 to 106 million in 2005. Mexico City's population has grown from 3 million to 16 million in the same time frame. My question to those who want to allow them to continue to come here illegally is: how many more should we take in? Should we take in another 10 million? 20 million? 50 million? 100 million? They will come if we let them. If we are going to let them in, we need to plan for how we will employ, educate and provide healthcare for them. Any thoughts?

J.M.Rodriguez said at March 22, 2005 9:58 AM:

We are being ilegally colonized. At the current pace,by mid-century we will be a third-world country. I come in contact with spanich speaking illegals constantly and they laugh at the Americans ignorance of the coming "Fall" of this country. They, illegals, have their own underground transportation, media, protection, social structure, and genuine disdain from US authority. They freely claim to be takers and have no desire for assimilation. Others lie about being from Mexico, when they are from Centeral, South and Carribean America. It is a short hop over the line from Mexico compared to getting back from thier home country, if deported. Mexico does all it can to expell thier illegals on us as well as their own poor, illerate masses. Oh, and by the way Mexico's Presidente Fox states, "Don't forget to send as much of the money home as you can, God Bless Western Union." "Los pinche Gringos no sabin un Mexican de un Chino" --translation-- "(explictive) Americans don't know a Mexican from a Chinaman."

Sure formula for America's fall

1. Continue legal abortion and use of Birth Control to guarantee reaching zero replacement level of citizens, almost there
2. DO NOT make English the official Language
3. Continue Bi-Lingual Education
4. Continue uncotrolled illlegal, chain migration, and extremely libral expanded legal immigration
5. Continue to allow illegals caught breaking the law to "Walk" because of the hassle of dealing with a "Foreign" language, very common occurance, however you and me, fellow citizens, to the slammer if we try it.
6. Continue to allow the use of US multi-identity, fake identity and easily obtained false foreign identity without penalty, however you and me, fellow citizens, to the slammer if we try it.
6. Finally continue to allow the rewriting of the Constitution by left wing, liberal, pagan, unpatriotic, one worlders.

STEPHEN HAIMA said at April 6, 2005 5:15 PM:

TO TURN YOUR BACK ON THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM IS IRRESPONSIBLE AND CHILDISH. THIS GOVERNMENT HAS THE RESOURCES AND MANPOWER TO DO ANYTHING IT WANTS TO DO. CANCEL ONE BOMBER AND YOU COULD PAY FOR A WALL SPANNING THE LENGTH OF THE BORDER, IN ECONOMIC TERMS IT WOULD SAVE US ALOT OF MONEY, WITH WHAT IT COSTS EVERY TAXPAYER IN THIS COUNTRY TO PAY FOR EMERGENCY ROOM VISITS BY ILLEGAL ALIENS, EDUCATING THER CHILDREN. YOU WOULD NOT NEED AS MANY AGENTS AS IS PROPOSED, BECAUSE YOU COULD MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO CROSS THE SOUTHERN BORDER. AS A FORMER BORDER PATROL AGENT, WE USE TO SAY TO EACH OTHER, IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS SERIOUS ABOUT SECURING THE BORDER WE WOULD BUILD A WALL.

Joy said at April 10, 2005 11:53 AM:

to allow illegal immigrants to obtain the same benefits as full citizens in the US in proposterous. The 9/11 attacks happened because we gave a bunch of illegal men drivers licenses. Us as legal americans are footing the bill for illegal aliens. where do you think our hard earned tax dollars are going? to benefit our our underbudgeted schools? oh no... its going to help illegal aliens who do not even belong here!

DAVID said at May 8, 2005 10:49 AM:

Immigrants of earlier days had a sincere interest in becoming Americans; learning the language, fitting into the culture and, at least partly, leaving the old country. Not so today, Today's immigrants simply want to move here and continue to be Mexican, Brazilian, Honduran, or whatever else the are. If that's what they want- stay home.

Douglas said at May 8, 2005 2:53 PM:

I say lets have a moratorium on Legal immigration, for five years to determine who is in the country who did not enter
through the legitimate immigration process provided by the U. S. government guidelines. Do not grant any privileges that legitimate citizens have a legitimate right to, no instant citizenship for the mothers of "anchor babies" who use
scurrying across the border illegally just in time to give birth, which incidently as I understand it, gives instant
citizenship not only to the "anchor baby", but also to the mother, father, sisters, brothers, and the dog! This country
would not be having this illegal alien problem if the governments of the countries of origin of these illegals were made to pay for what ever services their legitimate citizens cost this country, that U. S. taxpayers have
to pay for them. No driver's licenses! only in this country can a criminal (illegal alien) get services that in many
instances even legitimate citizens have difficulty in getting. DNA all who enter, damn the cost!, and do not under any
circumstances, allow those possessing visas, to over stay their visas.
I know you're probably saying how costly such endeavors would be, how these methods could never work, but we all know
that if it were not for those at the top who profit from this B.S., we wouldn't be discussing this now.

LegalImmigrantsDaughter said at June 8, 2005 12:03 AM:

Immigration is not bad but illegal immigration is. Illegal immigrants unfairly cut in line while other who follow the rules wait years to come to the U.S. That is not just not fair. My parents were immigrants, but they followed the rules and came here legally. I have other family who would love to immigrate here and who would gladly work those "unwanted jobs" but they are waiting their turn in line and following the rules.

Those who claim this issue to be racist in my opinion are only self-serving. The term racist is used quite conveniently as political scare tactic.

roger johnson said at June 9, 2005 3:53 PM:

we need to close the border,or annex mexico into the untied states. don't vote for a politican that doesn't want to close the border.mexico has 106 million people,here in the u.s. we have 41 million legal mexicans.plus the illegals. in a few more years we will have more mexicans here then in mexico,

DARRELL HOLMES said at July 13, 2005 12:02 AM:

everyone has forgot the massive amount of drugs and murders commited by illegals-we should have built the wall just to keep the drugs out-stayed at a hotel in marion,nc where all the maids and hotel workers were born in the us. they are afraid for thier jobs because in this mountain town, the illegals are just starting to flood in.One commented that in 2 or 3 years the politians will claim they won't do the same job some of them have already been doing for 20 years.people who say americans will not do those jobs are making a racist statement.In my oppion,that phase is a buss word for blacks just like mexican president fox said on tv.Funny,when i was a teenager just 15 years ago-I saw americans doing those jobs including myself.people need to call thier congressman and tell them they will not vote for them or stay home on election day.last election ,I told every call for political donations that i was not giving this time because of politians being silent on illegals and they had me on thier list from giving in the past.

Paulina Faundez said at July 16, 2005 6:11 PM:

I'm an inmigrant myself, and you even can say that I'm ilegal. I'm 16 years old and came to the US last year as a tourist from Chile. but at this moment I'm prossesing my residence. true to be told, the inmigrants don't come here because they want to, but because they need to, and because thay are needed where they are going.

someone said that not everyone is inmigrant, that "The original people who came were settlers. They brought their own culture and values and created a society in their image. They did not come to join an existing society of a different culture". now, how many people can say that they only have in their veins that british blood? not one. everyone has some connection to inmigrants in their families, that's a fact. This goes far more deep inside than just 'ilegals' this is racism. not long ago the so called "americans' who happened to be white, denied negroes their rights, even if they were Americans. That is a way to protect their race.

It turns out that people treat me differently from the Mexicans-Americans, even if they were born here and I wasn't. this is because I'm white despite of my hispanic ansestry (my family migrated to Chile from Spain, Yugoeslavia, and Italy), and because I act like most of white kids would. Even my boyfriend, that is american, hates Ilegals, but had no trouble at all in approching me.
Look deep inside you and ask yourself this question, would you marry a/an Hispanic/africanAmerican/Indian/Asian if you are what it is called 'white'?

John said at August 25, 2005 9:14 AM:

Immigration is fine - provided those who come do so LEGALLY. i.e. respecting our laws rather than flagrantly violating them as though they had a right to. Whenever I visit OTHER countries I am EXPECTED to follow THEIR laws, including getting a VISA etc. Why is it that America is the ONLY country in the world whose laws don't have to be followed?

If you think the immigration law is bad, work peacefully to change it. To just ignore the law is to violate it, the very definition of criminality. It's an insult to the MILLIONS of LEGAL immigrants who do obey the law to simply equate those who don't obey the law with their status, or to suppose that these illegals are ALL motivated by the highest ideals whereas American citizens are all racist.

MEXICO has the right to control their border - and so does the US. To claim otherwise is to claim nations don't have sovereignty.

John said at August 25, 2005 9:24 AM:

Oh, and of course, everyone knows that both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are building far more sophisticated and extensive fences along THEIR borders...to control illegal immigration or infiltration... and yet (surprise!) the New York Times doesn't care and no Leftist group is shouting about it. Instead all vitriol is reserved for Israel's wall and the anemic US border fence stretching just 14 of the 1900 miles of the border!

So EVERY OTHER COUNTRY can control THEIR borders (ever see Switzerland? the whole border is patrolled, every road, bridge, tunnel is mined to go BOOM... dragon teeth and fences run up and down pictoresque hills and mountains... but no one complains about that do they?) except the big-bad Americans.

Yep, we have the obligation to pay for everyone else, but they don't even owe it to us to respect our laws.

Roxan said at October 7, 2005 1:21 PM:

I think J.M. Rodgrigues has the right idea.

I think we are being colonized and we have a One World Order approaching (and it isn't going to be a pretty future if this theory is right -from what I've read- of 90% depopulation and the survivors being microchipped slaves).

I stumbled into this acidentally having MCS (also fell into the same denial game as) Gulf War Syndrome and Agent Orange and found out we had the same opposition from (great surprise/the medical community/along with government) (but it turns out there's a drug/pesticide/chemical company connection). They didn't want to admit they made people sick (kind of like the "Cigarette Wars").

I also found out about Stephen Barrett, Ronald Gotts and then to RISE and Wise Use, Cato Institute, etc. It seemed like one can of worms led eventually to one big can of worms.

Then, when I was doing research on Gulf War Syndrome, I came across this article on: Kissinger-Soldiers are just Dumb Stupid Animals along with the Illuminati, Useless Eaters, Depopulation and the New One World Order (which actually turns out to be a very old plan).

Then during the Kerry/Bush election, Nader mentioned that they both belonged to the Skull & Bones Society which is also associated with the World Bankers (Rothschilds/Rockefellers) amongst others also connected to the elite.

I wrote both candidates about illegal immigration (nary a reply from both/no surprise there) despite all their blather about terrorism and 9/11.

I also found out about the Ford Foundation, LULAC, Jorge Ramos, Voce de Aztlan, MALDEF, Mecha, La Raza (means the Race) and this isn't a just a Leftist thing. The Rightists are supporting all this illegal activity too.

With the activity in our government of the illegal Iraqi war, the outsourcing (can't stop that/but can stop the use of our tax dollars to do that), the H1B visa thing (while many of our own are unemployed here), the huge trade/domestic deficit, ignoring the many ill with MCS, Gulf War, Agent Orange, the apparent will to destroy our Social Security System the recent approval of CAFTA and the increased promotion of illegal immigration, I am afraid our own government is in the process of trying to destroy us. Hitler did to Germany and people ask why the German people didn't see it and why they allowed it happen and I'm afraid we might be coming to the very same situation.

One could always look up Operation Paperclip if they find that idea preposterous.

Tammy said at November 3, 2005 5:12 AM:

My daughter and her husband are currently holding down minimum wage jobs and going to medical school. Since they do not carry a 40 hour week schedule..they are denied health benefits. My family was blessed never to need the welfare system...but I am so pissed off because due to a recent illness...My children are left to carry a 200.000 dollar medical bill. They cannot apply for assistance because they are both working. It seems to me if you lay on your back and produce 30 children...the government will assist you. But if you are a working individual who TRIES to pay bills and better yourself...the government IGNORES you. This is MY money that is being used to pay for these illegal immigrants' welfare assistance !! RIGHT??? And I cannot get any help for my daughter and her family when I am the one who is paying the tab for these jerks??? I think the illegals should be deported and a health care plan should be set in place for AMERICANS who need health care. We have many americans that are in the same situation as my family. The only way my daughter can help with her medical bills (should another eposode arise)...is to quit her 5.45 an hour job and start popping out children...Am I correct in assuming this? Pissed in America Tammy

Jeff said at November 8, 2005 6:39 AM:

I find these statistics so outrageous. I am just a 17 year old kid in Northern Virginia and i see it everyday. Wherever you go its another alien getting amnesty that is coming out of our taxes and increasing our debt. I know i may sound a little immature to be commenting, but its not just wealthy american politicians. Its everyone who works hard to get what they deserve has to pay for someone who broke the law just by crossing our borders. Its ridiculous and there is no sign of letting up on this. I just cant understand how we have come to be a nation where we let illegal mean "legal" in a sense.

Dumpsterr in L.A. said at December 16, 2005 8:55 AM:

Illegal immigration. I live in the Los Angeles area. We used to be the Mecca of technology. That changed when Mayor Bradley made it illegal to ask for someone's legal status because illegal aliens would not report crimes. Our schools became flooded with uneducated poor children from uneducated illegal parents. Illegal aliens quickly displaced poor Americans, mainly blacks that had moved here looking for a better life. This was orchestrated with the help of churches, the local government and the news media.
The schools were then ordered not to ask for the legal status of children. Illegal aliens quickly flooded our city. Or schools hired Mexican teachers to teach here in Spanish. Violence in our schools became commonplace. Then they forced our children into busses to be sent to schools in high crime areas. They wanted to send my kid 20 miles away when there was a school within walking distance. We moved out of the county, as did many, many other Americans. We left Los Angeles to Mayor Bradley the news media and the Mexicans. We moved to a city 15 minutes away that has been listed as one of the safest cities in the country. Very few illegal immigrants.
The newspapers started reporting drive by shootings. Gangs started forming. The police had to start wearing bullet proof vests. Teachers quit their jobs and were replaced by Mexican teachers. Still, nobody would report crimes or turn a criminal into the police. Aliens don't trust the police from their own countries and they don't trust ours. Gangs took over. They look out for each other. If you turn a criminal in to the police, you will become a target by his affiliates. They are like mad dogs, don't look them in the eye, you may get shot. They spray graffiti all over the place to mark their territory. Americans have been shot cleaning their walls. I've had 13 year old kids give me a spastic gesture, apparently a gang thing, and threaten me when I caught them spraying graffiti. They broke my truck windows out.
They moved here because their home country was corrupt and where there is a corrupt government, you have poverty. Los Angeles is now a corrupt county. The only reason to move here now is so that they can send money home and receive free medical. 16 billion dollars a year just to Mexico. Our Urgent care centers are closing because it is illegal not to treat someone that shows up to an Urgent Care center. They use it for minor things such as colds, flues, cuts, bruises, gunshot and knife wounds, Tuberculosis, Whooping Cough, etc. That means Americans have to travel further for URGENT care.
The city gives grades to eating establishments that they must display in their windows. Yet, there are vendors walking the streets with carts selling questionable food to children and nobody stops them. You have a legitimate restaurant competing with a truck selling food out of the truck bed. And people are flocking to the truck.
Houses are being converted to apartments illegally with six families in one house being commonplace. Filthy conditions and streets filled with broken down cars that serve as a private place because the house is so crowded. The homeowner makes enough money renting out rooms that he does not have to work. He sometimes buys other houses to do the same. Almost all houses have illegal additions with no increase in property tax. The homeowner does not pay taxes on renting out their rooms. Everything is done with cash. The Building department has a different house size than the Appraiser because the Appraiser measured the house when it was sold. They are not allowed to share documents. In a neighboring city the Building Inspectors visit every house sold to make sure there are no illegal or unsafe conditions. It keeps illegal construction down and insures a house is paying it's fair share of taxes. Business owners build rooms to house the young girls they have working for them. When a house becomes an apartment and becomes a slum, all the houses in the neighborhood lose their value.
Illegal daycare centers are in every neighborhood. Infants placed in every nook and cranny in the house and toddlers running all around the yard with little supervision. Again, no taxes are paid and the children are in 3rd world living conditions. The yards are messy with trash everywhere and the houses are never baby proofed. I've even seen front doors on busy streets left ajar to allow for ventilation in non-air conditioned day cares.
Legal Contractors don't stand a chance of surviving in this city because they are underbid by thousands of dollars by illegal contractors. Illegal contractors have nothing to fear. They don't have to pay for health insurance, workers comp. or taxes. The city building inspectors are not allowed to ask for a license when the homeowner takes a permit out in his name. The illegal contractors can't read in any language or speak English. They can't read a map much less a set of plans.
They say that illegal aliens only take the jobs Americans won't take. Everybody knows that is a lie but I've heard it since the 70's. I and my friends have worked as a janitors, construction workers, delivered newspapers, worked as busboys, moved furniture and worked on ranches. I would not be able to get a job in this neighborhood of 1.5 million people because I don't speak Spanish.
Illegal aliens are not allowed to have a drivers license. The media constantly tells them where to go in Los Angeles to get counterfeit documents such as drivers licenses, vehicle tags, and social security cards. The city picks up our recyclable trash cans last so as to give illegal aliens time to pick our recyclables and identification. Because of all the hit and run accidents we have, the city set up a check point to catch illegal drivers. Why the hell was that only for one day in one location when it is estimated that one half the drivers on Wilshire are driving illegally with out a license or insurance? What can you do to a drunk driver that never had a license to drive in the first place? And, how do you know who he is or how many times he has had a DUI? How do you know how many times he has been deported. He is undocumented.
We deserve to have newspapers and TV news tell us the truth. We need to know we are not alone out here. We need a new source of news so we can find out where our politicians stand on issues before we vote for them. We are dealt a list of politicians the news has hand picked to match their agenda. They tore Schwarzenegger apart in the last election when all or most of his proposals made so much sense. Who could argue with changing a teacher's tenure from 2 years to 5? Why didn't the news remind us of how many times a suspected child molesting teacher was transferred to a new school?

Chen said at December 21, 2005 4:53 PM:

ILLEGAL aliens are not leagl immigrants. Every country has a custom to check for proper paper work before anyone is allowed into a country. You want to enter a country, you enter it by abiding by that country's laws.

I came to this country by applying for an I-20 to study for my graduate degree. I paid my own way to finishing my degree and eventually applied for "working permit" to work for a big company. My employer determined that I can offer great value to the company and agreed to apply for Permanent Residency for me. It took 5 years and over $10K to get my Permanent Residency status approved by INS.

Anyone wishing to stay in the USA has to start with complying with whatever laws that the USA has. If you don't like the laws and you are a US citizen, ask your congressmen/women, senators to change them! If you don;t like the laws and you are not a US citizen or permanent resident, you don't have to try to come here.

Whether illegals take jobs that no one here wants or not really is not an issue. Whether illegas contribute to the economy positively or not is not an issue.

Anyone who wants respect from the others needs to show respect to otherss country and sovereignty.


Jordan Nelson said at December 23, 2005 11:38 PM:

We need to build a wall and kick the scumbags out before it's too late and they overwhelm the voting. As it is, 90% of Blacks vote Democrats and I'm sure an equal number of Hispanics.

Why do Asians vote Republican? Oh wait, they work hard, study hard, move to the suburbs, assimilate and become upper-middle class citizens.

Alexandra said at January 15, 2006 7:38 PM:

It looks like none of you have really stoped and thought about the immigrants as actual human beings. The truth of the matter is that the one reason that that so many mexicans cross the border is because they are in need of a better life style. Why, then, would they cross illegaly? because the american government make these procedures incredibly difficult. I understand that this is to protect the nation's economy. But have you stopped and thought about this: the minimum wage in the USA is around 5 dollars an hour. The minimum wage in México is around 5 dollars a day. No matter how cheap things may be in Mexico, 5 dollars a day is not enough to maintain yourself, let alone a family. So yes, the states may have to pay for these people but it is still the most powerful and richest country in the world, and has been, and will continue to be for many years. They are not making such a big sacrifice, plus, after all, these illegal immigrants are helping out with the economy aren't they?
The point ends up being this: immigrants cross illegaly because they need to. Nobody likes leaving their family and home behind. And if The USA really needs the money, then souldn't they stop using it up on useless wars?

Randall Parker said at January 15, 2006 8:12 PM:

Alexandra,

A recent study found the overwhelming bulk of Mexicans who come to the US were not unemployed in Mexico. They weren't starving to death. They just want to make more money to have more material goods. But they do that at our expense.

You ought to stop and think of Americans as actual human beings. Why should we pay to subsidize others? Why should we make our cities and suburbs more crowded and more polluted? Why should we suffer from more crime including murder and rape from groups that commit those crimes at higher rates? Do we not deserve lower crime rates and less pollution?

Tony said at March 2, 2006 5:58 PM:

Here is the thing, you people complain about how illegal immigrants are costing this country too much money, why don't you people target african americans? Aren't they the leading population on welfare? Most of them are in Jail? doesn't that cost money? They come to your towns, rob your local stores, and businesses leave, isn't that right? When you go to a major city like down town Chicago, or New York, every homeless person you see on the street is african american. You don't see them working do you? do you even see them at least playing a guitar or trying to earn money in any possible way? no you don't. You basically see them asking for some change. Now why do you complain about illegal immigrants that do work? You even see them outside of stores like walmart because they are desperate to work.

Sarah said at March 10, 2006 12:48 PM:

J.M. Rodgrigues and John calm down we are not being colonized. We have never been uncolonized. English is also not the original language of this land. We seem to often forget about this land's first people. Perhaps that is because we have pushed them off onto reservations where we dump our toxic wastes so no one can see. Some of these comments make my stomach turn. In addition let us not forget about the delicate ecosystem of the Sonorian desert. A wall will disturb the lives of many severly endangered plants and animals (Jaguar, pygmy owl, etc.). I also do not see the point of spending $2.2billion on a wall when we still have dead bodies buried under debris in new orleans. If you want to know more you can research these things yourself. I am not saying let everyone just run across the border. All I am saying is that we need to make immigration and workers visas easier to obtain. A wall is not going to do any good. We have many abandoned air strips all across the county. Planes have been able to get past radar and fly into these areas. We already know digging is a possiblity. Finally, I do not see anything wrong with becoming a multi-cultural country. After all America is built from thousands of pieces of the world. You can call me un American all you want. That behavoir is juvenille anyways. I think it makes me more American because I do not want to see America become any more ugly then it has so far become. We cannot blame that on anyone but ourselves.

Randall Parker said at March 10, 2006 7:55 PM:

Sarah,

The animals in the desert would be a lot better off if millions of people weren't traipsing across it to enter the US illegally.

Yugoslavia, Lebanon, and Somalia are/were multi-cultural countries. What else do they have in common? Civil wars.

Canada and Belgium are bilingual. What else do they have in common? Large secessionist movements and dishonest elites that lie about multi-culturalism.

I do not want to see American become uglier. Hence the desire to build a barrier to slow population growth and slow the growth of the lower class.

Sarah said at March 13, 2006 5:59 PM:

Randall,

I know that the traffic has an effect too, but the wall will only make it worse. There will be spaces left open because if closed off entirely it would affect the migration patterns of animals and will further endanger their populations. So there will be areas left open. However, a wall with fewer spaces will attract even heavier traffic through these areas and will also endanger the populations. Hence a wall is not really the best solution.

Civil wars are not always the result of cultural differeces. Aside from that America is already multi-cultural. It is just that many do not see it. We are Irish, French, Ojibwe, African, Mexican, Chilanian, English, Navajo, etc. We are each a special blend. A majority of American culture in fact is a blending of all these cultures because no one lets go of their culture completely. The problem is that we do not realize that we are all brothers and sisters. We have separted ourselves with fences and can be cold to a fellow human being. Someday we will all have a greater understanding of everything, but first we must close the gaps we have created between our fellow men and women.
There is just as many crooked politicians here as there is anywhere else. Our lower class is the result of the greed of those in power. We have just as many obscenely rich as we do insanely poor. America is the only place with such a drastic difference. The extra money of all our rich could save our poor, but there is no balance. Like I said I do not want to make the border a free for all, but a wall is not going to stop these problems. It REALLY will not. What we need is strong and insightful leadership. Someone that is willing to really problem solve instead of trying to block it out and pretend it is not there. While I respect your opinion I know that it is not true to my heart.

Randall Parker said at March 13, 2006 8:12 PM:

Sarah,

Speaking of traffic: If we had kept all the Mexicans out then the traffic in California would be a lot lighter. Also, animals in California would not have their habitats encroached on nearly as much by new subdivisions.

American culture is primarily the original culture of the settlers. It has been diluted somewhat. But until the last few decades assimilation of immigrants to the majority culture was strongly encouraged. Now it is not encouraged and the flood of illegals has become huge. Plus, most are from one place. So they can create their own communities here that do not absorb our culture.

Why should we respect and preserve their culture? Mexico is hopelessly corrupt. Neocon fools claim Mexicans have "family values". But Hispanics have twice the illegitimacy rate of whites. What is "family values" about young single girls having babies?

Being cold to fellow human beings: They have twice the crime rate of us. You support policies that cause more American women to be raped. How cold of you. You support policies that cause more Americans to be murdered. How heartless.

Sarah said at March 14, 2006 7:59 PM:

As far as the animals go I am talking severely endangered species such as the sonoran pronghorn of which there is less than 30. The original culture of this land was not that of the English settlers. In fact the Arizona, Texas area was originally part of Mexico. This is not my point however and I grow tired of trying to explain so I am finished. So if you want the last word you got. You may think that bullying is an effective way to win an argument, but it leaves me unconvinced. It is obvious to me that constructive dialouge is not possible here. Therefore I am no longer interested in this conversation. It would be interesting to know where you got some of your information and I am positive that I have access to research that counters it. I was never looking to change anyone's mind just present some credable information and my opinion on the matter. The only thing that I hope you would change is your conflict style because it gets you very little. You can go ahead and argue and build youself up because I will not return to read it. This is worth no more of my time.

Randall Parker said at March 14, 2006 8:37 PM:

Sarah,

Bullying? I point out things inconvenient to your beliefs and you decide these observations constitute bullying.

Facts: Got tons of references. Tell me which facts you do not believe and I'll provide references.

Or see my category archives Immigration Societal Decay and Immigration Crime Rates.

Paulina Faundez said at March 20, 2006 11:15 PM:

Americans won their bad (horrible would be more appropiate) reputation around the world for being too self-centered. I know that right now you think that inmigration is an illness for this country, but the same thing thought people in the 1880's when the massive irish and german migration came. What they didn't see, that we do today, is that they made sure the industries kept up with the growing economy and that is a fact. Without that inmigration, the one after that of Italians and the ones after that, America would not be able to keep up with its own growing market. Then they'd have to rely more and more in countries like China for supplies and electronics, and believe me when I tell you this, you DO NOT want to see all the jobs in America shipped to China. This is a natural process, and one day, I hope you'll understand this. I think that just for all of you to understand, it will be necesary to experience or to meet someone in a situation like mine, of being an illegal inmigrant. And I can tell you that I don't feel bad about being one; right now I'm in high school, in the honors program, and looking for a good college to go to, I want to be a Graphic designer and to live and work here. I have plans on getting a Phd after I graduate and I'm getting letters from top 20 universities around the country. I don't see myself or my family as a burden for this country at all. My oldest brother came here with a degree in Audio-Visual communication, and has won several video festivals around the world with his 3d animated short films;he is now working in a tv channel, my other brother has a degree in english-spanish translation and is currently working for a realtor's agency, My mom works as a loan officer, my dad in a factory, and everything we do goes according to the law, we have car insurance, pay our taxes, and keep a big and beatuful house in a good neighborhood in Dallas. This with less than 2 years of being here. we don't use the health care programs for inmigrants, we pay everything with our money, and we don't get any federal assistance at all. Our money stays here in the US, we buy stuff for ourselves, we don't send money anywhere, and none of us has ever had any problems with the law, not even a ticket.

Are we so bad to this country that we have to leave????
please someone tell me.

Karla Moreno said at March 21, 2006 7:36 PM:

Paulina I'm also in your current situation. I'm also a high school student on the honors program. My parents are hard workers in a low paying job. They use the money they gain to try and give their two daughters better chances than they did. Then money is for us, and us only. They're not criminals, or as some people even dare to call us, terrorists! People should actually consider to talk to a person that's actually in our situation. I completely understand that SOME Mexicans are criminals, however don't go around believing that Americans don't end up in the news for crimes such as rape or murder. Don't forget that illegal immigrants are people too. They're not just animals waiting to pounce on the American economy!

Ann said at March 25, 2006 6:10 PM:

To Pauline and the rest of the "illegals". My grandparents were immigrants from Europe. They saved and planned and came to the United States the legal way. Why do you skirt around the issue of legal immigration. It is not as if your families couldn't have immigrated legally. The fact remains, your parents broke the law. Why don't you just break into someones home and take it over. There are so many who do just that here in Utah. Utah is a panacea for illegals. They will squat in homes that are not quite completely built and just take it over. The contractors then pay hell, several months and thousands of dollars to get them out. It doesn't matter that they maybe keep it clean and aren't gang members. They are still squatters. That is essentially what your parents hve done coming into this country illegally.
I work at a local health department. Over the past 15 years I have seen the clientele demographics change to serving almost totally hispanics. We all have to learn to speak Spanish because the clients refuse to speak English regardless of how long they have squatted in this country. They are all on medicaid and get everyother freebie the government agencies have to offer. I have gotten so that I refuse to speak spanish. I won't cater to their entitled attitudes.
And, yes, the majority of the illegals are the lower class and criminal element of Mexico. The educated class stay there and try to make Mexico a better place. Mexican citizens should stay there and contribute to their society and communities.
As for jobs, my husband is a contractor who is sick and tired of other contractors who hire illegals and pay them low wages under the table. He refuses to do that, but can't compete. Contractors who use illegals don't claim them for workmans comp, and other legal documentation. We have no under the table employees. We abide by the laws. My 17 year old son can't get a job at McDonalds because of all of the illegals. Hell, I can't even order a hamburger in English anymore.
Don't whine to me about how you should be able to break ANY of our laws. You will get no sympathy that way.

Ann

P.M said at March 26, 2006 8:12 AM:

Americans of all races, political party, or what ever must take a firm stand against this illegal invasion. The Mexican Government should take care of its citizens. We the American tax payer should start suing illegal aliens, hospitals should sue the hell out of anyone, including illegals for not paying their bills, we need a National I.D Card to be used by U.S citizens, and another type of Gov. issued I.D for non U.S Citizens who are here LEGALLY on Work Visas ect. I hope and pray that H.R 4437 Pass. Build the wall!!!!!!! NOW!!!!! You have a baby in the U.S while illegal; you and your baby should be deported, Americans must demand that laws be changed, if you live in Public Housing while illegal; you should be getting a bill from the American tax payer! You own a home, car, even a Dog, I think it all should be taken, sold, and the money be spent to help build the Wall, and if illegal, deported. If you are illegal, and come back, the U.S Government should treat you like the Mexican Government treat its illegal immigrants; that's a topic that Mexico would not want see go public. The world watches as illegal aliens make a mockery of U.S laws, enemies to America watch as they see how easy it is to enter the U.S. Mexicans boast that they will take America BACK one Man at a time. Mexicans largely hire Mexican, they vote only for Latino candidates, Illegal Mexicans are the most selfish, and racist people, they do not hold an allegiance to America. They also vote in American elections illegally, when caught should be DEPORTED, We should demand that anyone voting in any election in the U.S. be a legal resident. The Federal Gov. should be investigating voter fraud, because it is happening. Some even go to the military, Mexico have a military no American Citizen have asked any illegal immigrant to join the U.S. Armed Forces. So stay the hell out of our military, if illegal; you need to be deported. Illegal aliens who are in the prison system should be deported, and if they come back, we should demand that Mexico put them in Prison for no less then 3 years. I don't give a damn it all 30 million living here protest ! it is still more of US, the them; atleast for now. We as Americans whether Mexican American, or European American, we Must stop this illegal invasion. Write your law makers and demand that they defend the rights of the American people. Let Mexico defend the rights of its people in Mexico. The Mexican Government doe's not have the right to dictate to the American People.

T.H. said at March 27, 2006 11:46 AM:

In response to many who made racial comments: First of all whites make up 61% of receivers of any type of major assistance via the federal government, while blacks make up 34%. Let's not mix apples and oranges about how blacks, Europeans, Asians, Hispanics and now many others came to this country.

Blacks were the one group who were forced to be here, leave every aspect of culture behind, build this country, be legally enslaved and segregated, legally denied equal rights, and expected to overcome 300 years of dehumanization because they have the same opportunities as everyone else. Yet their Civil Rights were just approved in 1964. I am sure the response to hurricane Katrina displays their equality in this country or the help denied those trying to flee Haiti. Funny how we rallied the troops and money for the tsunami victims or earthquakes in enemy territory. Just accept that America is more willing to embrace those with a lighter shade of skin.

Keep in mind that indentured servants (usually Europeans) received money and property once released (the American dream). Did you know that Asians (from certain countries) own many businesses because they are guaranteed loans by this country (reparations)? Typically, Asians come from a country that emphasizes education as a status symbol and the country and family advocates for education. This country does not do that for all; try going to different schools in the same city/county. Why are we paying for higher education when the Pakistan government pays its citizens to become doctors? Bush made it into an ivy league because of grandfather laws (oops is that a form of affirmative action?). The subject of the kid knapping of blacks to America and the treatment of Native Americans will remain a stain on America’s history that everyone wishes we could just sweep under the rug and get over it. Given this is not the subject at hand I will momentarily get over it.

The issue of immigration: In Northern Virginia I live and work with people from Latin American, Asian, African and Middle Eastern countries. A good number of them are here illegally. This new influx of immigrants is different. These recent immigrants (legal and illegal) do not respect America. This is evident in their unwillingness to learn English (especially those who are Spanish speakers), expecting everyone to accept/respect their religion and culture without reciprocation, segregating themselves and shunning anyone who does not speak their language or come from their country, and disregarding the laws as they relate to immigration.

I do like what someone proposed--placing a moratorium on new immigration (not to include those seeking political asylum) to identify the status of those that are here. A physical border should be erected because the so called patrol does not work. Some should be granted legal status but not all; some specific guidelines need to be determined and either the process for legalization or deportation expedited. The recent protests show how week America is. We are allowing illegals to highjack this country. They are rallying to tell America that we should allow those who are already breaking the law to have amnesty.

I have over 10 years of experience in my field and am working on my doctorate but have and will continue to be overlooked for jobs. Instead of training those who are willing to learn a second language (I went far with French in college, and capable of learning) they hire the less experienced and undereducated who speak English as a second language. Many times those individuals who are considered bilingual are better able to communicate in their first language; with some their English is very questionable.

Our school systems spend millions on bilingual education for legal as well as illegal children. Do not be surprised when the protests call for Spanish as the official second language. If the monies were allocated to ensure that my children learn a second language or Spanish this would be fair. When we talk about preparing children to become viable citizens they will not be prepared if a job requires them being able to communicate fluently in another language. Why should there be some extra program (costing parent’s money) when English as a Second language is available for parents throughout the community, providing childcare and dinner. While the programs available to bilingual children are a part of their regular school day.

I do not do the work that “most Americans will not take” but if my work becomes a low wage job I could not afford to do it? Employers learn that they have an employment pool of illegals who will take jobs for less money and no benefits. An employer could end up with 2-4 workers/illegals in place of one worker with a reasonable wage and benefits. Even $10 an hour is a slap in the face for anyone working in Fairfax County, Virginia (largest county in VA) where a one bedroom apartment is good at $1200 a month, nothing included; the median cost of a home (more like a townhouse) is $450,000.

paulina said at March 27, 2006 6:01 PM:

Say whatever you want, because I won't feel ofended. We are not "mexicans" as you call every HISPANIC immigrants, We are Chileans. There is a difference, Chile is in South America, and we learn English and another language since the first grande in elementary, so many of the chileans who come here have some knowledge in English, and if not, we try to learn. it's true that many people who come here don't care about integrating to the society, but tell me this WHO DOES?????? What I've seen horrifies me sometimes, I see kids in my high school HIGH in class, some others that simply decide not to work because it's boring, or they don't care, they don't even try to use the resources that the school system gives them, shouldn't they be called OUTCAST???? they do nothing all day and live off of their parents, that simply makes me sick. And because of these slackers EVERY other student suffers, for that policy of "every one can", all they get is the education being slowed and modified to fit their limited amount of attention, leaving everyone else who is doing his best to just sit there because the class is too slow to teach him anything?

people spends their entire time going from work to their homes and any social life gets killed by all of this, who would want to be part of that boring routine??? I have integrated because I know it's important, and I did it fast. And for what most of you say, that I'm illegal and all of that, I did not choose to come here, my parents brought me, and there was nothing I could do, and believe me I don't like it one bit to be illegal and receive words of hate from people like you, but because of those offenses, I feel compelled to accomplish even more, to be someone just to prove you wrong, and I know I will.

wendy said at March 29, 2006 5:17 PM:

who do you think you are to discriminate people? you know you are no even an american and guees what there is so many hispanish people who really work hard but there is some who does not work these people like to deal with drugs for american like you , but we have children in our countries you have to ssupport them because americans take our oil, sugar, coffee , bananas, rice, you are wearing pants assambled by latin people you american take everything away from us
and you don't want us to be here? you are a selfish person and excuse me for that have a nice life

wendy said at March 29, 2006 5:18 PM:

who do you think you are to discriminate people? you know you are no even an american and guees what there is so many hispanish people who really work hard but there is some who does not work these people like to deal with drugs for american like you , but we have children in our countries you have to ssupport them because americans take our oil, sugar, coffee , bananas, rice, you are wearing pants assambled by latin people you american take everything away from us
and you don't want us to be here? you are a selfish person and excuse me for that have a nice life

wendy said at March 29, 2006 5:18 PM:

who do you think you are to discriminate people? you know you are no even an american and guees what there is so many hispanish people who really work hard but there is some who does not work these people like to deal with drugs for american like you , but we have children in our countries you have to ssupport them because americans take our oil, sugar, coffee , bananas, rice, you are wearing pants assambled by latin people you american take everything away from us
and you don't want us to be here? you are a selfish person and excuse me for that have a nice life

jes said at March 30, 2006 9:51 AM:

You guys need to shut up and quit bitching because all those low paying jobs are not going to do themselves. I now for sure that you dam rich people are not going to so them so if you want everything to be a mess and out of order i suggest you shut the hell up.

jessica said at March 30, 2006 9:56 AM:

To ann you make me sick and you should be assamed.

Randall Parker said at March 30, 2006 7:37 PM:

Jessica,

Low paying jobs have low economic value. If they do not get done we do not lose that much. But take away the huge influx of low skilled Hispanics and many of those jobs will still get done. What'll change is that employers will have to raise the salaries they offer for those jobs.

In some parts of the US the manual labor jobs are all still done by native Americans. Why? No Hispanics have showed up yet.

No, we are not going to "shut the hell up" just because you insult us. We are mad as hell and getting madder every day.

Dan Parker said at April 1, 2006 3:52 PM:

In the early 1800s the US citizens were told by the US government that it was their "MANIFEST DESTINY" to immigrate into the Mexican territories of New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and California. These immigrants were thought to need US Military protection from "native american savages (indians)" and Mexicans. To the best I can tell the Mexican goverment provided for its citizens according to the conditions of the day appropriately. So we saturated these Mexican lands with the power of 5 dynamic events; 1)The wagon trains of the Oregon Trail and the promise of the Wilamet Valley; 2)The gold rush of 1849; 3)The Morman trail and it's conflict over compliance with US laws under the leadership of Brigham Young; 4)The pony express and; 5)The telegraph, all of which made use or all or part of the mountain passes and river crossings learned from the indians. Now, what if the Mexican military were to sneek into the USA and "protect their citizens from the attacks of the "self-righteous" americans (you and me)? Don't they, too, have a "MANIFEST DESTINY" to occupy the lands stollen from them, and on which their cousins of history "legally" live?

I know, I haven't solved today's issue, but I have shinned some historical light of conscience on the subject. The question is - "can we recognise and own our part in history and now handle it?"

Dan Parker

Dan Parker said at April 2, 2006 12:45 AM:

I agree that corporate business is not loyal to any government that is "truly for the people and by the people". Big business has bought the politician and the law maker every time. 1913 saw the beginning of the federal governed school system and the IRS. Supreme Court Justice William Brandice was spokesman for both group's supporters who believed it necessary to separate our youth from their parents by programs (the school system)funded by Federal taxation and controlled by interpreters of law (the supreme court) who by interpretive license could reshape any law away from its original meaning to say anything at all.

Consider the difference between a "state owned business" and "a business run state". No wonder President Bush desired an Arab State owned business to operate our ports. Our President is not savvy to being totally loyal to neither the Constitution nor the US flag, which does not fly in any States court of law. Instead the US military flag flies so the court can follow the military tribunal's protocol whereby a panel (jury) will find guilt or innocence while the magistrate (judge) will determine sentencing presumably according with sentencing guidelines, different from the protocol given us in the constitution. No protection by the US Constitution for US citizens. No protection by the Executive, Legislative or Judicial branch. Does anyone think for one second that ratings hungry journalist corporations will report impartial truth?

Should all people unite without regard to borders what could we do to force a new start? How about not work for anyone other than self and not pay any tax? How about becoming more and more self sufficient with solar/generators? Grow one's own food? Barter? Walk and cycle? Anything to avoid tax. Also, why not confuse the political parties and candidates by registering for the party you oppose so that you can vote in their primary for an idiot candidate and then vote in the final election for the best candidate. By doing this several things happen. 1) You have made your vote count double-once negatively and once positively. 2) The political statistions can't figure who is where. Consider, the candidates study statistics to decide how to campaign to us. If a republican registers republican the candidate better figures out what to say to the republican audience. But if the republican registers democrat the republican candidate thinks they know how to talk to you but they don't - you appear democrat and they don't focus on you. Democrats don't know you any better either. I am convinced that politicians win when people fight each other over absolutely any and every issue. All the Joes and José’s loose more to the rich and powerful with every fight at the street level.

Add up the review. Big business runs our government + our courts are compromised and interpret law in accord with agendas + we pay for it all with their imposed taxes on us + we fuel their issues with our fear driven passion = we gain nothing and loose more of our inalienable rights.

Dan Parker said at April 4, 2006 12:42 AM:

As a child he once chased a runaway bouncing ball in-between 2 parked cars and into oncoming traffic. The grace of providence reigned and he survived eating the car’s grill. Years later whenever driving his cars he diligently watched under the parked cars he passed for hint of a bouncing ball. One day something else unexpected went terribly wrong. Afterward he voluntarily took several driver’s ed training classes in the hope of discovering all the hazards one could encounter while operating a vehicle. Eventually he surrendered his license in his 80’s but in his 50’s he had taken up walking, riding bikes and busses and an occasional taxi. In his 60’s one of his grand kids married a Mexican here illegally and 7 years later the I.N.S. deported the Mexican in law but the family stayed together as the grand kid and the great grand kids also voluntarily moved south of the border. One day they called and invited him to come down. During his stay he fell in love with the slower pace and he never returned here. Over and over he pondered why he hadn’t learned to live this way back in his 20’s. When he died he struggled through severe chest pains and his family rushed to him. He knew this was his time to go and for one brief moment he wondered if he were up north if his family would have been by his side…………….probably not………………….how could they have been? Then he closed his eyes for the last time………….not alone at all.

Oh, yes, I forgot – the issue is “we are arguing over the all important borders”. Hmmm?
People are people and families don’t stay together once they’re Americanized, do they?
Our way’s best though!

http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Biographies/Philosophy/Bentham.htm
“”Jeremy Bentham's thinking in respect to how laws come about and the need for coercive law, is, faulty. Bentham's doctrines, wrapped up and known as utilitarianism, as Chambers observes, "was crude and full of inconsistencies, basing itself on purely quantitative considerations." Charles Kay Ogden (1889-1957) of Cambridge University, observed that Bentham had,
"... a very powerful influence in the political and legal sphere, but that as a thinker he was not very original, not even very profound, a trifle confused on ultimate philosophical issues and prone to over simplify complex problems ... pedantic and opinionated systematizer, overrated by his radical contemporaries ..."
Sydney Smith, a contemporary, and who might be counted as one of Bentham's supporters, saw the difficulty with Bentham's methodology:
"Mr. Bentham is long; Mr. Bentham is occasionally involved and obscure; Mr. Bentham invents new and alarming expressions; Mr. Bentham loves division and subdivision - and he loves method itself, more than its consequences."
Hazlitt and Hazlitt's views on Bentham as a writer questions Bentham's view of legislation and its place in the guidance of men's activity:
"The gentleman is himself a capital logician; and he has been led by this circumstance to consider man as a logical animal. We fear this view of the matter will hardly hold water. If we attend to the moral man, the constitution of his mind will scarcely be found to be built up of pure reason and a regard to consequences: if we consider the criminal man (with whom the legislator has chiefly to do), it will be found to be still less so."
Hazlitt points out that criminals and legislators are quite a different species, and continues:
"Mr Bentham, in adjusting the provisions of a penal code, lays too little stress on the co-operation of the natural prejudices of mankind ... The laws of the country are therefore ineffectual and abortive, because they are made by the rich for the poor, by the wise for the ignorant, by the respectable and exalted in station for the very scum and refuse of the community."
People value the good opinion of others and of their place in their family and in their society. It is for shame, not fear, that people obey laws. Hazlitt continues:
"You tell a person [a drunk, an idler, a gambler, a culprit, or a criminal] of this stamp what is his interest; he says he does not care about his interest, or the world and he differ on that particular. But there is one point on which he must agree with them, namely, what they think of his conduct, and that is the only hold you have of him. A man may be callous and indifferent to what happens to himself; but he is never indifferent to public opinion or proof against open scorn and infamy.
Shame, then, not fear, is the sheet-anchor of the law ... It is the apprehension of being stigmatized by public opinion, the fear of what will be thought and said of them, that deters men from the violation of the laws, while their character remains unimpeached; but honour once lost, all is lost. The man can never be himself again! A citizen is like a soldier, a part of a machine, who submits to certain hardships, privations, and dangers, not for his own ease, pleasure, profit, or even conscience, but - for shame."
There have been many, through the years, that envisaged a perfect and well ordered society; Bentham was one, and he felt it might be achieved through legislation. Jeremy Bentham like many had an optimistic view that the nature of man might be changed. “”


Dan here:
But I think not! Rather, man will seek to live and avoid getting caught. Many laws seek to change something which is NOT WRONG into a wrong for the benefit of the few and to gain the support of the many the few stir the fears of the many who are common.
Dan Parker

wal kim said at April 7, 2006 12:50 AM:

I am a healthcare worker who on a day to day basis am disgusted to see how the healthcare system is collapsing. Hospitals are closing every day and healthcare costs are rising. Illegals are doing all they can to have their children here and show up at hospitals that cant refuse them. Hospitals, staff, taxpayers, counties, the federal government end up eating the cost. I do believe that the costs ( a hospitalization can cost over 100,000 dollar! easily) associated with treating an illegal and their large families (along with other benefits that they reap by abusing the system) is good enough reason to simply deny them any. Simply deny them. Why should they receive all these benefits over billions of people in the world who also need them. Who will pay for it. You? Im sure if it affected your wallet personally, it would be disheartening. I certainly don't like seeing my taxes go there. I would rather send it to africa or russia, or anywhere where people arent out to steal it illegally.

Honestly, i don't even have health insurance at this time. I can't afford it with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of student loans to pay off, and oh can't forget the taxes.

I can see why the illegals are so upset. Not because they will be losing low paying jobs, but because they will lose the free 'humanitarian' benefits that are handed to them at Americas expense.

Its Sad to say, but i think that if I were to be a poor illegal immigrant, I probably would gladly pick produce (or do some other lowly job)in order to reap these insurmountable financial benefits for me and my probably large family, and at the same time laugh at all you american softees. but Im not an illegal and i pay taxes, so the heck with them. Deny em these rights AT ALL COSTS.

I do feel the liberals and proillegal immigrants on the issue of helping them out due to their unfortunate state. If we continue to do so, I am sure we will all regret this in the future when the american economy will self-destruct. Isn't the national debt somewhere in the TRILLION dollar range? how about the trade deficit. People usually protest when it affects them personally. Perhaps you are still doing alright. But if things turned around, your attitude may change.

anyways feels good to vent. i want to state my opinion and want to get involved.

Amanda said at April 11, 2006 11:09 PM:

You know a lot of you are just being down right racist and ignorant! Put yourself in someone elses shoes! What would you do if you had a family in a country that pays 8 dollars a day. Wouldn't you risk everything to make a better life for your family? It is only human nature. and that is a bunch of bullcrap about stealing by going to the hospitol wal. Several people in this country from this country do the same. Illegal immigrants are not able to get a welfare check so how are they taking taxes? EVERYONE in this country pays taxes!!!!!!!!! Do you think that you just popped up out of the dirt here? EVERYONE is here in this country because a family member immigrated here!!! We do need to get more organized that is true. But the only way we are going to be able to do that is by getting off the high horse and not being so ignorant!!

Cookie said at April 25, 2006 1:36 PM:

The question I have is: Why haven't the illegal immigrants taken a stand in their own country like they have here to make their country, to which they owe obvious allegiance, a better place for their children?

In another 20 years the current taxpaying population of "Baby Boomers" will be retired or dead. At the current rate of the Hispanic population increase there will not be a sufficient taxpayer base to support the community infrastructure(s).

It is my understanding that a hundred years ago, many of our grandparents came to the USA from all over the world. They didn't climb a fence. They didn't jump ship. They, and many millions, landed at Ellis Island, "The Isle of Tears." where they were prodded, poked, shoved and they were looked at medically and yes, some were sent back to where they came from -- Italy, Ireland, Germany, Poland, France, Russia -- wherever. These immigrants (and those that preceded them all the way back to the colonists) were all legal and documented. There was a set number from each country that could enter.

The preceding immigrants took being an American seriously. They studied English. They made sure their children spoke English and had an education so that they might have better futures than that of their parents. Through all of their hardships they took pride in being productive Americans. I don't see this happening with the current immigrants. If they don't do something about it, their sons and daughters will also work for “the man” under the same conditions that are so abhorrent to them.

And a final comment; if I never eat another tomato that was "hand picked" it would be ok with me.

Jim said at April 26, 2006 8:02 PM:

Marking the border is easy. - A mine is a terrible thing to waste. And we have leftovers which are getting outdated. Heck with the high -buck fences and predator drones. Most of the Arizona border is an impact zone or proving ground anyway. Go low tech go low cost.

My great-Grandparents did not allow their children to continue to speak German. "You are in America, speak English."
I have studied German in High School and found it useful while visiting Europe with the Army. My main point is that I an
not an ignorant redneck. I am an educated redneck. This is still America and not Amexico.

christina said at May 1, 2006 11:31 AM:

ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS? this has to be a joke....i can not believe some of the posts that i have read.....

FIRST of all: are you really serious in expecting the us population of tax paying citizens just to allow you all to just magically become legal? Seriously? i mean lets look at why it is that we dont apprciate you being here, for one, you BROKE the law, i dont care nor do my fellow tax paying neighbors that you were fleeing to this countrey for a better life, YOU BROKE THE LAW...this just shows us that you have no concern for our laws and regulations, you can go through the proper channels just like our ancestors and many before you.

AND REALLY: the fact that our ancestors were immigrants is really your best argument? seriously? you think that is a good argument that our ancestors came over here and registered with the new countries government, surviving deplorable conditions just to get here and be treated like scum, or how about the africans that were sold and traded like cattle who didnt even ask to be brough to this country, you really think that crossing a river has any impact like the conditions that our familes endured to become legal citizens? IM OFFENDED!

And WHY...is it that you LOVE YOUR stinking country soooooo much that infiltrate ours with all of your "love of mexico rhetoric" and yet its the country you fled from, to escape "the hardships"...its called assimilations, try it and maybe we wouldnt mind you.....

ALSO: by the way I am a texas teacher, why is it that you illegals get reduced tuition at state universities? WHY? isnt it the citizens duty to pay TAXES on those universities? this is yet another reasopn we are discontented with you...

AND....why is it that when you take a historically quiet white/black community and monitor its criminal activity, and compare it to a hispanic activity the crime rate doubles? why is that? i mean seriously it proves the point that you do not feel that american laws apply....

and why is it, that you do not pay taxes but yet my husband is constantly admitting you into OUR hospital system and taking your stupid fake SS card..by they way 000-00-0000 IS NOT A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER!!!!!!! is that right? I mean why does he have to turn away patients that ARE legal becasue his beds are full with ILLEGALS>>>

Oh yeah before i forget, to all of you who were ignorant enough to think that your boycott would work...lets think about this, do you really think that you have that big of a hold an the ecomomy? OKAY geniuses, i saw you all waiting at the pumps yesterday...did you not think that your MAJOR increase in spending yesterday and today was not going to be noticed..hellow its called an ecomomy, it fluxuates.....it all evens out, so have fun...i will have no empathy for those of you who lose your jobs, and for your children who will not be able to make up school work for today....its called the real world, this is how things work....heres a thought...JUST OBEY THE LAWS, they were put there for a reason.

and by the way, is it possible that MAYBE just maybe since MEXICO is seeing such and OVERPOPULATION that maybe the vatican should reconsider a stand on brith control? seems weird that many catholic cultures have noticed what a problem overpopulation can be...but for some reason mexcio hasnt....hummmm...thats strange

david said at May 2, 2006 12:50 AM:

LEGAL...ILEGAL. Reading these comments i´ve come to believe there are no other word avalaible in the english language. As a Philosophy student, I´ve come to understand the law as a relative value. It varies from one society to another. It serves a purpose for a certain group o a certain individual. Law changes beyond our reach. We didn´t decide the present law (any law) as a result of our inmediat conduct, we won´t decide the future law in the same manner. It´s the task and the will of others. The only law that trascends that limiting concept is the natural law or the law of the humans, wich was articulated by the romans in order to stop the divisions between the romans citizens and non-citizens. It stated one big truth: All of them were humans, all of them were equal. All of them deserved respect. It's an unchangeable notion or as they said: INMUTABILIS ET AETERNAM. And I don´t see that principle applied in many comments I´ve read here. Specially from a person called mr. Parker. He sounds as if in a mission. It must be a dificult one. Wouldn´t like to be in his shoes. Not for a second. Must be hard to choose a passion in life that implies the division and clasification of men by nationality, color, creed, language, etc. But All of us decide our path and we´ve got to respect the other. So, I give my respect to that man. I also give it to the people you´re all talking about even if they a treat to Mr. Parker (and other's) security as he so passionately claims. Sorry for that.

Christian said at May 4, 2006 12:16 AM:

I am very anti-illegal. I can't stand it...I fled LA to get away from the Hispanic community (the most racist group I have ever encountered). La Raza, my ass (for the race everything, for others nothing). It sounds like a joke until you consider they are like locust following their motto to the word. If you think that earlier description of LA was bogus, I can tell you right now, it wasn't. They are pulling LA down into a cesspit, and then leaving there to branch out and find other places to corrupt, a little like the spread of toxic waste. Did you know, I am white middle class and while I was living in LA my kids knew that the safest place to hide during gunfire is in the porcelin tub in the bathroom? Did you know that despite being accosted by any number of drug addicts and prostitutes and gang members, homes in my nieghborhood are selling for over a million dollars? Its a mess, a true nightmare...my kids would bring home flyers from public school, IN SPANISH, no English...I guess that is because they were the only white English speaking kids in their school...

This whole situation is a threat to national security...but not in the terrorist type way. The middle class is being ground into mince-meat by the rich and the poor...and we are too much like cattle to stand up for ourselves...the rich need the poor to get richer, the poor need the middle class to pay their taxes...the ever dwindling middle class gets to take on the burden for everyone.

I hate it...I am, as of today, going to VOW...I will never KNOWINGLY purchase goods or product that required illegal labor. I will not eat in restaurants that hire illegal help. I will not patronize a car wash that hires illegal's (I would much rather give my money to some teenagers setting up a community car wash anyway). I will not buy a home that was built with illegal labor...I will not hire contractors who hire illegal help (guess what I pretty much know who you are because your monkey asses were all shut down every protest). I will not hire a maid or janitor who is illegal or a handyman who is not a legal resident. I will use what little purchasing power I have to make my statement. I am a Nationalist. I am Pro-United States. I love MY country. I love my people. I don't expect to have people march for me when I break the law, I will not support you either. If you hire illegal's to pad your pocket, you are on my shit-list...I will not support your financial destruction of my country, the USA. You may think that I couldn't afford this, but I can...I can pay the $1.40 more each meal (average bill to wait staff salary) to pay a decent wage to a legal citizen. How will I know...I will ask..."Do you hire illegals?" It will become an issue for employers because they are going to get tired of hearing me ask...they will know that I care about more than their lined pockets.

You ridiculous people think that you are indispensable...your NOT...it’s called SOCIETY. It is built and functions based on the nature of redundancy. You are no more irreplaceable than I am, and I am a highly skilled professional with college degrees. I know I am ultimately replaceable...that is the whole thing with unskilled labor...you are the ultimate in replaceable and I want you REPLACED. I am tired of you sucking on my countries tit, while you belittle us and degrade our lifestyle, bloating our government with your unceasing clamoring for more while we struggle to make ends meet. A wall is not good enough...you are very lucky I am not in power, I am stuck in the meat grinder of your needs. The rich don't care because they have no REAL ties to this country anymore, hence the words JET SETTER! Something goes wrong...we can jet out of there...no problem. I am not in this position of luxury. I have to linger on after they have screwed it up and bailed.

I am being taxed unmercilously just so you can pick my grapes...you assholes! How dare you!!! My healthcare is collapsing so that you can wash my car! I should really value that...How dare you! Your points are ignorant and crude...like the people you keep pumping across the border and pumping out of your bodies.

And you are set up to "take back the Northern States, from those European invaders", not on my watch...from this day forward I will do everything in my power to oppose you...to oppose La Raza. You are illegal, you take everything and give nothing...my people are silent for fear of being called a 'racist', but our backs are breaking under your bloated weight and when we are gone, there will be nothing left for you to suck, you morons. My country may be full of the "greedy" (the cry of the LAZY, UNCREATIVE and POOR everywhere) but I am hoping WE have enough vision left to repel you invaders and send you packing before you do break our back. Don't even THINK about asking me to celebrate your ridiculous Cinco de Mayo...come talk to me when I can really celebrate my independence from YOU.

Christian

P.S. I thought that movie "A day without a Mexican" was really about that and I was SO excited to see it (yeah...a day without a Mexican, whoopie), until I learned that it was just another propaganda machine that would allow you to take a little bit more from me, LEGALLY, without giving anything back...I wasn't about to pay money to see that show when I can see it for real everyday. And what is that crap about "we are all immigrants, except for the native Americans" what did they spawn here in some spontaniously combustible conflageration of DNA? Morons!


Tony jones said at May 11, 2006 4:49 PM:

I had an illeagle mexican sewing for me and he is now sueing me saying he is perminitly disabled from from cutting with a sizzores and pushing his foot on the peddle of a sewing maching. I know I blew it when I hired him, and now I'm paying the ultemit price. I'm in california.I know he is fraundulantly making this injury up to get money from me,I found out he recently bought a house in washington state and needs a nest egg to kick back, after ripping me off. i was wondering if anyone knows what to do against this type of sitition, I would like to know if I have any rights being a citizen of the United States? I have a lawyer but he doesn't return my calls. I hate to think that this pc of S--- is going to cash in and laugh his ass of, and sit pritty in washinton. I know I made a mistake belive me. Thanks Tony.

Georgie said at June 17, 2006 11:15 AM:

My God! What a site! And one of the best posts was from "Christian" -- EVERY colorful word he wrote was literally music to my ears! Thanks, Christian! I am also a Californian who is FED-UP with these law-less morons jumping over our borders & planting their anchor-babies on OUR land, sucking the very life-blood from we hard-working, tax-paying citizens. I, too, will not EVER AGAIN patronize a single business that hires these arrogant assholes. I'd rather mow my own lawn, grow my own friggin tomatoes & send these tit-sucking users BACK to the mindless hell from which they came.
If Hispanics south of our border want to come to America to work, STAND IN LINE to do it LEGALLY -- like my ancestors did. We have immigration LAWS for a friggin REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
George

Scaepan said at July 30, 2006 7:19 AM:

I was born in an America where 50% were of Irish decent (including me) - there are far more Irish in America than in Ireland. The Irish came from a destroyed economy and were ignorant, dirty, and mean. They performed the lowest paying and most dangerous jobs (my grandfather started working 16 hours, 6 days a week for 2-3 pennies a week in the mines when he was 7 and had his arm pulled off (no health benefits) before he should have graduated from High School. The Irish took over law enforcement in NY through political maneuvering (it cost a minimum of a $300 bride just to apply according to the Republican sponsored Lexow report) while shops commonly posted signs that read, "No Dogs or Irishmen!" The nation hated the Irish because it was believed they would take over the country - and those fears were eventually proved accurate (back to the 50% of Irish decent figure). We are now being invaded instead by Mexicans and the fears that they will be taking over our country in the next 50 years are again accurate - but remember that the Mexicans are more family oriented and less likely to be drunk and violent. America is the world's most immoral (more of our legal citizens are in jail than any other nation, we spend more on illegal drugs, not to mention $200 Billion a year just on illegal sports gambling), the world's most ignorant (lowest tests scores in the industrialized world although highest in, albeit false, self-esteem), and are even returning to pre-modern pagan beliefs (the fastest growing religion in America, the 11th most unchurched country in the world, is Wicca, doubling in size every six months with an estimated number of 10-30 million). We could use some new blood. Most middle class jobs were in truth stolen by robots (for those many skilled factory positions) where America is returning to a country of haves and have-nots (and the have-nots would prefer to slack off in school and blame someone else for their problems). We refuse to teach them English and remove the requirement for speaking English from have-not jobs really only because we know it will forever keep them from the better jobs. “42%-77% of LA’s mostly black homeless (32% with graduate degrees) do not receive the public benefits to which they are entitled.” Who is getting the money from these types of win falls? Illegals pay %70 Billion a year into Social Security while taking no benefits. Segregation attitudes begin in our children’s schools that have fewer employed minorities than any other industry (run mostly by White women). The number one math teacher in American History, in fact, was an immigrant from South America, Jamie Escalante, who was forever forced out of education and our country only 3 years after the movie about him (Stand and Deliver) simply for getting more poor LA Hispanics into college (like MIT, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, USC, and UCLA) than even Hollywood High was succeeding with rich whites (the year after the movie, the principal reassigned our greatest math teacher to supervise asbestos removal and then the teachers assication soon forced him out completely). I am also of Native American decent (making most all of you “illegal aliens” - so, please leave), and our first lesson about the Whiteman was that the best way to tell when he is lying is his lips are moving.

Nicole said at August 25, 2006 10:11 AM:

You can't generalize every instance of illegal immigration as arrogant asses who don't care about America and simply want to mooch off working citizens. There are those who can't afford to wait in lines and fill out papers day after day. Some of them really do need help. There are several sicknesses where lack of medicine and lack of information can be deadly, not to mention malnutrition can cause all kinds of sicknesses. The average immigrant who comes to this country starts out more healthy than their legal counter parts, but who is to say the family that they are trying to help back home is just as healthy? My mother once went had surgery done on her mouth when I was very young, and the medication the doctors gave her for pain was having little effect. I'll admit that I bought pain killers from a contact to give to her at five dollars a piece. Tell me it was wrong I don't care. She was someone I loved and I had never seen her in that kind of pain before. Watching someone you care about suffer is far more difficult than suffering yourself. If I hadn't had the money I would have stolen it from any one of you in a heartbeat to make her pain stop. I can't blame someone for feeling the same. It's desperation in its purest form. I know what it feels like to watch someone start to slip through the cracks because they don't have any money, and to feel helpless when you can't do anything for them because you don't have any either.
True there are many illegal immigrants who are here only to take advantage because they know there are people in the US who will try to help them, but not all are this way. I know it's hurting us, but not everyone was lucky enough to be born here. There are thousands of US citizens that come from generations of US-born citizens who would take advantage of our system just as quickly as any illegal immigrant. You can argue with me until judgement day, but it is what I believe is right. If I could I would help a hundred immigrants to start some sort of life here, and if only one of them was an honest person who made something of themselves and contributed to society, then it was worth it. Don't fool yourselves, we are no better then any of them. We were just born on a different spit of land. Don't let the phrase US Citizen go to your head. Our own fight for freedom wasn't so justified. Once you get to an education level past the brain washed middle school version of US history, we find that there were many times in history where our country bent, even blatantly ignored the rules to get it's way just like everyone else. They have just as much claim to this world as the rest of us, and for some denying them things such as basic education and health care can be the same as denying them life, which you have absolutely no right to do. We all sit on a high horse, but illegal immigrants are not all the same, and you don't know their life. If you want to do something about it, be the ones who tell them individually that they have to leave. Look each and every one of them in the eye and tell them you don't want them here, then perhaps you will have some right to tell me what how each one of them is to blame for so many of our problems.

David said at October 8, 2006 3:32 PM:


Illegal aliens are exactly what the word means, illegal or have broken some laws that legal aliens have created in order to gain unfair access to our country and economy. The United States was made great by the transformation from that of a agriculturaly based economy into that of an industrial one. Where machines , inventions, and technology replaced the burden of manual labor. Oh sure illegal aliens probably do fill the manual jobs that no one wants but cheap labor is enabling business to make a quick buck today by substituting capital expenditures in labor saving machines and technology with an illegal work force at the expense of our health care, school, and leagl system. .

This might enable business to make a quick profit today but it an will cost the the jobs of those who make the machines and design the technology of tomorrow.

James Bryant said at January 19, 2007 5:55 AM:

One solution to illeage immigration is to halt all new prision construction in the United States. Instead we should build just one National prision which extends the entire length of the US and Mexian border. Just think we can build a National Barrier, stop illeagle immigration over the Mexican border and best of all---we only have to guard the US side of the prison wall.

jacob hatfield said at March 13, 2007 7:44 AM:

regardless america has been very sufficiate on its own for 100's of years and with all of the new technology what makes anyone think that we need some dirty mexican immigrants to help us if you believe that we need help from iligal immigrants it is safe to say that you are unpatriotic. I mean they need to rememeber that yes alot of these immigrants may help the economy a little but not enough to put our citszens at risk look at the percentage of them comitting crimes in america and the percentage that took american jobs because they will owrk for dirt ceap. also remember how high on natural rescources mexico is they could easily start to dig in to their homeland and flourish off it it. i mean if they help so much then why dont we take a small percentage in legally let them work in our factories take their small pay.... but then we will atleast know where they are and also know how many are here its like for every good working iligeal alien we have we get 100 criminal ones lets sort out let some in legally and keep the rest out until there is a need for it, this would not be a liberal or democratic desicion at all but it would be a real good start on beginning to weed out some of our problems.....not bad for 17 years old huh?

Wes Brown said at May 17, 2007 3:47 PM:

Cheap Mexican labor dosen't necessarily = cheaper products...A good example of this is
the new housing market,the builder is pocketing the savings and not passing it along.Guess
who foots the bill for entitlements? Not the ones who hire them .

vanessa said at September 27, 2007 5:32 PM:

it dosent matter who they are or where they come from. anybody who resides here illegaly IS BREAKING THE LAW AS WE SPEAK. its not just about how much money they cost us Americans (illegals cost billions of dollars). its also a health issue. many illegals have not been vaccinated and may carry diseas such as tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy,polio and more. your children go to school with illegals immigrants who may carry disease. the fact is illegal immigrants have little or no respect for the United states immigration laws. they just come here, get free stuff and spread disease. illegals make me angry. they should be deported IMMEDIATELY

Scott said at April 24, 2008 3:24 PM:

With respect to the estimated $93.3 billion that states and the federal government spend servicing illegal aliens this year, let's quickly run down how Congress & the President annually spend our money:


2007 Presidential Budget, Actual - $2.8 trillion
(1% ~ $28 billion)

Environment & natural resources - 1.1%
"Administration of justice" - 1.5%
Veterans - 2.5%
Transportation (NOTE: includes most peoples' definitions of 'earmarks') - 2.6%
Education - 3.1%
Agriculture subsidies, science & energy research, space exploration, "community" programs, foreign affairs (NOTE: includes most peoples' definitions of 'earmarks') - 5.1%
Servicing national debt interest - 8.4%
Unemployment & welfare - 12.7%
Total Defense spending, not including wars in Iraq & Afghanistan - 19.9%
Medicare, Medicaid + Social Security - 43.3%

(note: wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are funded separately by Congressional Budget Resolutions; 2008 projection is $168 billion, 2007 estimate is $115 billion, total spending since 2002 is $698 billion; Source: CBO Estimate 2007)


OK, raise your hand if you can't see the elephant in the room.

For those geriatrics on Medicare and collecting Social Security, you don't have to raise your hands (we know it aggravates the arthritis.....). Just blink once for "Yes" or twice for "No".


Anybody?


OK I'll start. It costs $262 million/day for states and the federal government to service the education, justice, health and welfare needs of America's illegal aliens, around 5% of the total cost of those services for both legal and illegal residents.

It costs $115 million/day to administer justice.
It costs $192 million/day to care for veterans.
It costs $199 million/day to maintain roads, bridges & highways.
It costs $237 million/day to educate children.
It costs $315 million/day to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It costs $644 million/day to service the interest alone on money created by the Federal Reserve and other central banks.
It costs $974 million/day to pay for welfare and unemployment.
It costs $1.5 billion/day to keep soldiers' canteens filled and tanks treaded.
It costs $3.3 billion/day to service our obligation to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.


Honestly, illegals have never looked cheaper to me.


(Source: United States Federal Budget 2007)

Randall Parker said at April 24, 2008 8:49 PM:

Scott,

Your argument has a big source of error. You do not account for the money spent on the legal citizen children and grandchildren of the illegal aliens. Those children and grandchildren get more spent on them by government than they pay in taxes.

Scott said at April 25, 2008 2:06 PM:

Randall;

I apologize for not explaining the $93.3 billion figure. This argument was a cross-posted (more apologies) refutation of an oft-quoted figure that servicing illegal immigration costs the US $338.3 billion annually. That particular figure included some rather misleading line items (hundreds of billions in "remittances" sent back home, "suppressed wages", "lost tax revenues" and other suspicious claims) and was pretty quickly reduced to $93.3 in real, actual state and federal spending.

To address your point, the figure does in fact account for $17 billion annually spend "for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens," (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html is cited, but nonfunctional) by both state and federal governments, which would further reduce the (still dubious) total from $93.3 to $76.3 billion in government spending on real, actual illegal aliens.

This would bring our daily spending on illegals down to around $210 million/day.

But let's quickly look at what happens to that $17 billion. That's about $47 million/day in both state & federal dollars educating the legal children of non-citizens.

Look at our budget again - $86 billion in Federal dollars were spent in 2007 on education. The National Center for Education Statistics estimates that federal spending on education amounts to anywhere between 8% and 20% of total spending on education in the U.S. - the rest is picked up by state and local tax revenues.

But we're starting to stretch our numbers a bit far here, so we'll instead gather more hard facts. The NCES estimates $473.9 billion in total spending by school districts in 2004 (http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66). That's around $1.3 billion/day in total dollars spent by every party on education in the U.S.

This means that our legal, American-born children of illegal aliens amounts to just over 3.6% of total education spending.

3.6% - the sky isn't falling. 3.6% isn't that depressing of a statistic. 3.6% of $100 won't buy you a cup of coffee in this town anymore. This is for education alone, but I suspect that given enough data, we'll find a similar pattern on health and welfare spending.

I don't want to bore you so I'll skip ahead to an even less depressing stat - the 2.4% of that $1.3 Billion/day spent on actual, genuine, authentic illegal children of illegal aliens.

12th place - now THAT's depressing. 12th place is where the United Nations' education index places the U.S. after all those billions.

You didn't cite a source to substantiate your claim that state and federal governments won't collect more than $17 billion/year in tax receipts from these individuals (presumably once they're educated, of age and in the workforce....). But the threshold for disproving it is fairly low - $17b is around 0.7% of total federal tax revenue for 2007, or 0.9% of off-budget (no Social Security/Medicare) receipts. That's federal tax alone. Without a flat tax, it's hard to estimate what the gross would be, but legally-born children of illegal immigrants would have to earn less than 1/3rd of average U.S. household income in order for their total tax to be eclipsed by the education services they receive. Factor in state and local tax, sales & excise taxes, and it's not at all hard to imagine a legally-born child of illegal immigrants being net tax-positive.

Frankly, we will need as many of them to be net tax-positive as possible, given that the Social Security system is the largest single item on the federal budget, and has fewer payers-per-beneficiary than ever before. Economist Thomas Sowell has argued that Social Security is a pyramid scheme that will eventually have to go bust, as fewer naturalized citizens are entering the tax base at the same time as the Baby Boom generation is leaving it. This will produce exactly the situation you describe - a system where beneficiaries receive more than was paid in for them - only it will be a few degrees of magnitude more dire.

But really, that's all academic. U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are legal U.S. citizens, so unless Congress changes the law, a discussion on how much it costs to educate legal U.S. citizens doesn't belong in a discussion about illegal immigration.

Sharon Bach said at December 17, 2008 7:18 PM:

If you enter illegally and then help yourself to something (such as medical care) that you cannot pay for, depleting the supply of that care available and/or increasing the cost of that care to those here legally (legal immigrant or native-born citizen), how can that be considered acceptable? In terms of health care this increased cost has made it more difficult for American citizens either to buy their own health care or to qualify for disability due to the increased backlog and demand. Here is the tragic story of one such person. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlqSM2of3Ng

Jason said at October 23, 2009 10:56 AM:

The United States needs to eliminate birthright citizenship. If you're illegal and have a child born in a US hospital, we'll help you deliver the baby. However, you will need to travel to the embassy of your host nation in order to get a certified birth certificate/citizenship proof for your child.

We are one of the few counries that still extend birthright citizenship to children born within our borders. Ireland did away with that policy due to illegal immigrants from Africa and other nations taking advantage of their liberal policies regarding citizenship. Furthermore, women from countries like South Korea intentionally travel to US hospitals so that they can give birth inside our country. The child obtains dual citizenship, and earns the right to attend US schools or vouch family members to live in the United States when they reach adulthood. When those family members earn US citizenship, they can vouch more family members. Taxpayers can't afford the burden that these people place on our government.

Congress attempted to end this practice in 2005, but the bill was shot down quickly before any serious discussion could take place. True reform definitely won't take place with a liberal like Obama in office. When Obama gets defeated in 2012, perhaps we can reserrect this issue.

john walker said at March 7, 2010 8:05 PM:

A sad day in the U.S.A. Ignorance is not bliss anymore. Illegals are not trashing your property and not having you pay their way you ignorant pieces of waste. Millions of illegals help make this country great not bad it is the government that makes this country bad. The United States profits from every illegal family why because even when people are paid in cash they spend, paying for many different things and at tax time they do not get a refund the government keeps X amount lets just say 1500 per family multiply that times the millions. Not all illegals get paid cash. Saying illegals are bad is as stupid as saying that big companies do not profit from child labor, sweat shops and outsourcing. What you should focus on is these assholes that RIP millions of dollars from our 401k's and cause our people to be out of jobs why is no one pissed anymore about Enron or the economy we need illegals to keep prices down but we don't need the government protecting CEO's that embezzle millions that legally can't be touched because of state laws and put 10's of thousands of people out of jobs. People seem to forget that THIS IS A CAPITALIST NATION and that is why things are so high priced don't forget that your premiums help fund 6 figure corporate perks or million dollar bonuses. Yeah that lets blame the wetback that makes $7, $8 or $9 an hour for the billions Madoff or Enron executives stole, hey lets blame them for the great depression, the loss in Vietnam and gas prices while we are at it.

GuyP said at September 10, 2011 12:17 AM:

One of the main reasons for which health care costs are so high is that doctors stopped prescribing the cheaper drugs, although the therapeutic effects are the same with more expensive ones. Take the anabolic steroids for instance: the generic product costs half than the commercial one, and have exactly the same effect. And the side effects are the same too. When we will get out from the pharmaceutical companies domination we will probably see a decrease in health care costs!


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