2003 August 23 Saturday
Al-Muhajiroun Celebrate "Magnificent 19" For 9/11 Attack

Godless Capitalist draws attention to this web page by the Al-Muhajiroun Muslim organization celebrating the September 11, 2001 attack.

Two years on then, it seems that during their customary 1 minutes silence in NewYork and elsewhere on September the 11th 2003, Muslims worldwide will again be watching replays of the collapse of the Twin Towers, praying to Allah (SWT) to grant those magnificent 19, Paradise. They will also be praying for the reverberations to continue until the eradication of all man-made law and the implementation of divine law in the form of the Khilafah - carrying the message of Islam to the world and striving for Izhar ud-Deen i.e. the total domination of the world by Islam.

Al-Muhajiroun advocates that Muslims in the West should be a fifth column fighting for the overthrow and subjugation of non-Muslims by Muslims.

4. The preparation of themselves to be the front line of the coming Khilafah i.e. to become strong and united in order to become the fifth column which is able to put pressure on the enemies of Islam and to be able to support the Muslim Ummah world-wide.

Godless calls for the British to deport the Al-Muhajiroun members living in Britain. Given that the leader of Al-Muhajiroun clearly rejects the legitimacy ofsecular legal authority it is clear that this is an organization that rejects the legitimacy of any state that is not a Muslim state.

As I've stated previously, as long as Westerners refuse to examine religious ideologies as critically as they look at secular ideologies the West is going to fail to adequately defend itself. Contrary to the claims of Islam's Western apologists belief systems that claim supernatural origins are not automatically, because of their claims of supernatural origins, benign and beneficial for the maintenance of a free society.

For more on the dangers of secular and religious ideologies see the Religious and Secular Ideologies archive.

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2003 August 23 11:56 AM  Civilizations Clash Of


Comments
Sarita said at August 27, 2003 12:19 PM:

September 11, 2001 will be the only thing that these evil people will get to smile about because soon, the US troops will wipe them, their families and their neighbors out. Iraq will rise as a nation that will live in fear of God. To serve the Lord isnt to kill people who are different or to judge others. Lets see how the Muslims celebrate 9-11 in hell!

Don said at August 27, 2003 3:52 PM:

These crazy bastards come to the U.S. with their hands out, give me no taxes, free education, health, welfare, and neglect your own natural born citizens! We will spread hate and terror under the cloth of free speech.
We will strain everything to your country, and send anything back to ours.

These people want to die, in the name of their god, let's start flattening countries out, one by one, lets help them die in the name of their religion.

Not Suicidal said at August 27, 2003 3:56 PM:

Seems terrorists, and those who "feel Laden's actions were justified", should think of this: They had it easy, before 9/11. Before 9/11, we'd (USA) come to the aid of people who asked, and only gave as much as we were allowed. Now, after their letting us know what the horror of their day to day lives are like (gee, thanks for that wonderful freaking tutorial.. you idiots), now the US is Hell Bent to remove the threat from the world. ---Before 9/11, Terrorism was tolerated.. ---After 9/11, we now know it's something to be Eradicated. Thank you for lifting the veil from our eyes. I think the US is not doing all that I would deem just (meaning, as much as I'd like to see happen), after such a horrible and targeted attack, but it's damn sure going to be nipped in the bud now. Welcome to the start of the Age of Global Security and Peace. You brought this on yourselves.

Tengu said at August 27, 2003 4:18 PM:

All Muslims are the enemy of every American. We should kill every Muslim man, woman and child on the face of the earth. I hate them and will always do whatever I can to bring misery and suffering to them.

Dusty said at August 27, 2003 4:37 PM:

These muslims are so stupid that they do not know or can they comprehend that they are in fact the infidels - killing themselves proves it - all for a piece of crap they call the Koran. God only knows where there souls have gone and I suspect they went straight to hell. Their only hope is their salvation through Jesus Christ. Only then will there be peace and harmony in this world. In the meantime, the muslim march to hell continues. March onward Christian Soldieres of the Lord!

Not Suicidal said at August 27, 2003 4:55 PM:

From their website:

Date:
11TH SEPTEMBER 2003
Time:
PLEASE PHONE FOR MORE DETAILS
Venue:
PLEASE PHONE FOR MORE DETAILS

hmm.. nervous are they? gee... why NOT for pubishing the details, beforehand... hmm... expecting problems, are we? : )

Not Suicidal said at August 27, 2003 5:12 PM:

I do want to point out something, though, from what I'm seeing here and elsewhere: Not all Muslims are bad.

The extremists, who actively use violence and death as their tools, are the bad ones. Just as for the races (white/black/hispanic/asian/arabic/etc) there are good and bad people in all of them. Society likely created the circumstances by which those who do their evil were easilly seduced into doing such malicious acts. Those people are to be pitied, not distained or hated..... until they believe that doing such harm and causing such pain is a just thing to do. That is when the person to have compassion for has died, and the monster is born that has taken the place of the just man or woman, who is now a threat to the well being of others... well being meaning spritual well being, well being of health, well being of familiy and friends, and financial and other worldly well being. All are just as important, and are not exclusive of the other. Until such time as you do not possess a body, which lives in our plane of existence, financial and worldly possessions are simply something to suffer through and cannot be avoided.

I'll sum this up in a few catch phrases: "Do unto others, as you wish them to do unto you" (obviously, the extremists really wish we'd find them and turn them into swiss cheese.. but that's off topic). The Wicca phrase also applies: "As it harms none: Do as thou wilt." (self explanitory, I seriously hope). And a personal favorite, which I'm not going to disclose the source of... "A man who beats his children, or harms those around him, cannot be expected to be tolerated. That man should full well expect that he shall be found and punished. To think otherwise is insanity. A man who uses religion as his excuse, to do so, should full well expect the modern world to stop his practices, as modern man is more civilized than centuries past, and religion is a matter of choice or birth, and not something that should endanger the world, but enrich it and give it meaning, for those who need it"

sue said at August 27, 2003 5:19 PM:

I will pray for these poor misguided souls. Islam is a very twisted religion and muhammed is a false prophet.

JD said at August 27, 2003 6:12 PM:

I think anyone supporting any type of terrorist act should be hunted down and slaughtered in such matter as Uday, and Qusey. If you make an example of theses groups, It will be an example to any other forthcoming terrorist groups. All I see in these peoples eyes are the devil. And I'll tell you what, you jockeys are lucky the military turned me down for for an injury I sustained, because I would take pride(American Pride) in being able to kill you Fuckers face to face personally. But since I can't, I'll be here to back our troops. The United States will prevail. All that stand in our way of Freedom, I'll tell my grandchildren of a religion, and race of hate that use to be

Mary Louise said at August 27, 2003 6:25 PM:

Here's the deal. If they want to commit suicide let them be forwarned.
We will bury them in pig skin and defile their remains so that they cannot
enter Nirvana or where ever the heck it is that they go.
There will be no virgins. They will just be..
as Shakespere says, "worm food".

Not Suicidal said at August 27, 2003 6:33 PM:

We try to reason with them, because we are not like them. And the "them" is not "all".

You have to consider your hatreds and predjudices (sp?), and figure if you're applying them to the whole race, or that section within it that 'deserves' it. And remember: the more that's heard, of The West applying hatred statements toward the whole race, the more they can attempt to justify what they call 'just' and we call 'terroristic'.

I just can't wait until people realise that most terrorist activites are based on events that they themselves create. When they do an act of terror, they apply scrutiny toward an injustice. However, the injustice they cite is commonly (not always) propagated by the act of terrorists on the other side of the issue.

If people would just get that 'violence begets violence' and 'violence ignores and prevent understanding' (by the victim, who no longer cares about the issue that caused the violent act, and now, thanks to the violator, seeks retribution), and that 'understanding fosters peace, or can lead to it'.... then people can start understanding that the more rocks thrown there are, the more rocks that will be thrown back.........

I'd lay odds that a lot of what's going on, lately (middle east, israel, etc), no longer is about what the issue once was. I'd guess there were a high percentage who thirst for the kill, thirst for the combat, and no longer care for the issue to be resolved... and possibly a good portion who desire the violence to continue, because it lets them feel they are making their mark on the world (regardless of the consequence to innocent life).

If we could just get rid of the people who want the power to start conflict, and empower those who can accomplish peace, then we might just get the world united for once, instead of seeing who can be the best spammer, the best hacker, the best hoax starter, the best troublemaker, the best genocidal despot.... or, the best and last man to end life on Earth.

Get over it people. And yes, am not just talking to the people here... am talking to those that use violence as your tool... The longer and more intense you fight and kill to make your point, the more resistance you will encounter, and, more importantly, the more resistance you will inspire and engender.

A closed fist, when used to strike someone, has three responses: Fear, Pain, or Anger. Fear, from people who will not defend themselves... Pain from those who CAN NOT defend themselves.. and Anger, and likely in kind retaliation, from those who can.

An open hand, when presented to someone, also has three responses: Rejection, Curiosity, or Acceptance. Rejection, from those people who don't care what the hand holds (which, are apathetic or never cared for what was presented to them, or don't know enough about it, to know what good is in store for them). Curiosity, from those who are interested in what they see, but want to know more... and finally, and most importantly, Acceptance, from the people who know what is being presented to them, and are happy to see it offered, and are glad you thought of them enough to give it to them.

As you see... an open hand can lead to a lot more, and appeal to more people, than a closed fist. Fighting is its own end, and war is its own end. Peace, and understanding, and working together, when the people who try to undermine you are few or none, can lead to a lot more possibilities. During war, its about tearing down. During Peace, there is chance and a likelihood for growth. Which, please be objective, is more desirable? And be honest with yourself. Put aside those thoughts where your violence is just, and think globally. That is, unless you wish human kind to remain on earth, and never be united, and never see the stars, because we are ready for it. (had to put that last part in.. but, if you think about it long enough, you'll know the zen behind it).

yo mama said at August 27, 2003 7:01 PM:

Islam is some retarded religion and i hope one of those twisted people of this organization challenge me. You wanna fight lets fight. I pray for these type of people every night, being a christian, but if you are gonna bring the fight to my country, im not going to back down. I am 15 years old and not scared to fight or die. I'm definately not scared of these freaks.

Kendogg said at August 27, 2003 7:31 PM:

Pedasos de come mierdas son estos moros ijueputas. Si estoy de acuerdo que si uno quiere liberarse del imperialismo norte americano uno necesita de hacer una revolucion, pero lo que estan haciendo estos moros come mierdas es una pendejada, son putos los ijueputas. Es ser cobarde si attacan a gente innocente, adonde estan el resto? Eso fue una corbardia, son un par de homosexuales que tienen miedo de meterse en una revolucion verdadera no una pendejada de attacar a innocentes y esconderse. Como dijo el Che "arriva la revolucion, hasta la victoria siempre"

Scott said at August 27, 2003 9:18 PM:

Ever notice how "brave" all these twisted, sick bastards are that threaten the world with terrorism? They are generally seen wearing masks or scarves over their faces to hide their cowardly identity. They are not fighting for a religion or their God. They are nothing more than dastardly, pathetic criminals. I say, Damn the worlds opinion! We should lay waste to them and their countries. And further more, Arafat is nothing but a dried up old man attempting to regain a "rep" which he may have once had. He has no more control over the Palistinians than I do. Just my $0.02 worth.
Scott

Vortex453 said at August 27, 2003 9:34 PM:


I think you people should stop judging. most of you people are Bush's ass-kissers, for all I know. I know Sept. 11th was an horrible even but,ever wonder why they did it, take a wild guess first then you could start pointing fingers. thats all I have to say, "in my opinion."

Endeavorhaqq said at August 27, 2003 10:43 PM:

The majority of the posters here are simply running scared! These posters know next to nothing about Islam, and are too lazy or arrogant to study honestly. Some of these posts are outright embarrassing. The attitude and illogical, sweeping hatred is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than the terror groups! How absurd with calling for the mass killing of Muslims just b/c they're Muslims. To exterminate the Muslim world would include the entire planet b/c Islam is everywhere. Following Islam does not mean the person supports any of these radical groups who claim to use religion as their excuse for attacking. How is that so hard to grasp? Or is it just easier to hate ALL people of a group? For the people of intelligence, think about this...if Islam were a faith focused on violence, it would have been vanquished centuries ago! It would not have flourished for over 1,400 years! Yes, there are some pissed off people in Islam for sure, but these FEW DO NOT represent the majority. EVERY Group has its zealots. Right now its just trendy to bash Islam and accuse 1.4 billion people of supporting horror. Ridiculous.

James said at August 27, 2003 10:50 PM:

I THINK I'LL LOAD UP MY CAR WITH MILITARY CLAYMORE MINES AND DRIVE IT INTO THEIR STALL. GOOD IDEA? HAHAHAHAHAHA! THESE RADICAL MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ARE INCITING VIOLENCE SHOULD DIE!!!!!!!!

Agnostic One said at August 28, 2003 1:02 AM:

FUCK ISLAM
FUCK MUHAMMED
FUCK BUSH
FUCK OSAMA
FUCK IMPERIALISM
FUCK PUSSY ASS TERRORIST
FUCK SADDAM
FUCK ISLAM AGAIN
MOHAMMED WAS A FAG COCK SUCKER WHO MARRIED AN OLDER WOMAN FOR HER MONEY THEN SWINDLED PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR MONEY BY SAYING THAT HE HAD A VISON
BUSH JR AND SR ARE ALSO COCK SUCKING FAGS THAT ARE OUT THERE TRYING TO IMPLEMENT NEO COLONIALISM IN ORDER TO MAKE MORE MONEY OUT OF PETROLEUM
FUCK ISLAM ONE LAST TIME AND I CLEAN MY ASS WITH THE FUCKEN HALLOWEEN COSTUMS YOUR FUCKEN COCK DEPRIVED WIOVES WEAR
FUCK BUSHIT
FUCK ISLAM, I'M OUT FAGGITS

Agnostic One said at August 28, 2003 1:06 AM:

ARRIVA LA REVOLUCCION COMPADRES MR LAKENDOGG, A LA CHINGADA ISLAM NOS CAGAMOS EN ESSOS CULIADORES DE CAMELLOS PUTOS. A LA MIERDA CON ISLAM Y ME COJI A MOHHAMED PORQUE ME DIO EL CULO

Agnostic One said at August 28, 2003 1:08 AM:

LOS YANQUIS IMPERIALISTAS SHOULD GET A PLANE AND KAMIKAZE THE MUTHER FUCKER INTO MECCA AND KILL ALL THOSE FUCKEN INNOCENT COCK SUCKER, AN EYE FOR A BALL THATS WHAT I SAY. LETS END THIS SHIT NOW, BRING ARMAGGEDON MUTHERFUCKERS

sue said at August 28, 2003 3:56 AM:

Read the history of the "religion" of Islam....muhammed was not a prophet, he made it all up. His "vision" was only in his mind. The hadiths twisted his so-called vision into the bizarre tenets of what islam is today.Al-Ghazali helped further propagate the twistedness when he proclaimed that muslim philosophers needed to stop thinking about reason in their study of the koran. The whole basis of this so called religion is based on a false prophet and the ignorant people who followed him.

Endeavorhaqq said at August 28, 2003 6:15 AM:

To "sue" "It is God Who has revealed the Book (Quran) to you (Muhammad) in which some verses are clear statements (which accept no interpretation) and these are the fundamental ideas of the Book, while other verses may have several possibilites. Those who hearts are perverse, follow the unclear statements in pursuit of their own mischievous goals by interpreting them in a way that will suit their own purpose. No one knows its true interpretations except God. Those who have a firm grounding in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All its verses are from our Lord." No one can grasp this fact except the people of reason." Quran 3:7...

People, both Muslim and nonMuslim, can twist and distort Islam (or any religion for that matter). Study the ENTIRE picture of Islam objectively from Muslim sources before posting YOUR interpretations. BTW read up on the type of people converting to Islam...they are FAR from ignorant!!
WWW.THETRUERELIGION.ORG/CONVERTS

endeavorhaqq said at August 28, 2003 6:59 AM:

continued to "sue" >>muhammed was not a prophet, he made it all up. His "vision" was only in his mind
The contents of the Quran were "made up"? This man Muhammad (p) was a scientific genius then!
See for yourself. WWW.ISLAM-GUIDE.COM

Vortex453 said at August 28, 2003 12:42 PM:

this world we live in is going nowhere. there will never be peace. take those US troops out of Iraq.

Please said at August 28, 2003 9:28 PM:

To Endeavorhaqq: Please. Islam isn't the one-true-religion. But Islamic sources sure are going to say that it is, so reading *them* isn't really going to give a fair perspective, is it? Why don't you try reading the Bible, the Gita and four Vedas, the Dharma, the Torrah, the Guru Adi Granth,and a few others and *then* try to tell me that the Qur'an is the one true book?

endeavorhaqq said at August 28, 2003 10:14 PM:

To Please. I use to follow the Bible, as I use to be a born again Christian. However after serious, honest, objective, soul-searching investigating of the Bible, the history of Christianity and other religions as well, Islam stood out FIRST among ALL of them. Do the same. www.themodernreligion.com www.islam-guide.com

MUJAHID said at August 29, 2003 2:02 AM:

FUCK BUSH
FUCK BLAIR
FUCK CHRISTIAN
FUCK JUDAS
YOU ARE ALL MOTHER FUCKER
ISLAM WILL BE KILL YOU
THE TOTAL DOMINATION OF THE WORLD BY ISLAM
BUSH AND BLAIR YOU ARE LIARS
MUJAHIDEEN HAVE BROUGHT DIGNITY AND HONOUR BACK TO MUSLIM WORLDWIDE. INSYA ALLAH!
ALLAHU AKBAR! ALLAHU AKBAR! ALLAHU AKBAR!

suep said at August 29, 2003 3:46 AM:

To endeavorhaqq: I have and am currently studying the history of islam. It appears that muhammed mingled with Christians and heard their accounts of Jesus Christ, the son of God. Looks like he then conviently had a "vision". Seems to me he borrowed some of what he heard from the Christians and interjected his own ideas. Here is a little factoid for you: God has never left himself without a witness among all people through his general revelation in nature and in the human conscience. (Acts 14:17;Romans 1:19-20) So if you are telling me that muhammed had a "vision" that then was kept alive and embellished by whoever muhammed chose to name as his "successors" you are simply wrong. God did not establish multiple pathways to salvation..........there is only one way and the content has and is always the same. The "religion" of islam is one of violence and non.tolerance and the "jihad" has morphed into a license to kill, namely by the twisted so-called successors of muhammed--the false prophet. In another sense GOD is the father of muhammed because GOD is the father of all people everywhere, too bad muhammed thought he could create his own version. However there is hope, there is always hope for salvation through JESUS CHRIST.

REALIST said at August 29, 2003 2:28 PM:

To Mujahid: You just don't realize who you are refering to! You expect all of us to conform to your religion and use these public icons as representation of our country's entire belief system. Yet, in your ignorance, you exemplify the type of extreme idiosyncrasy that demonstrates that no matter my belief you need to be eliminated from the social fabric of mankind. If I do not believe in any specific religion, I am neither bad nor good, however, my actions and attitude determine this. Since you have so openly demonstrated that if you share that ideology with your other Neurotic Sociopaths you deserve the same treatment as other troublesome insects. When you are ready to grow up and face the fact that religion cannot be forced on others, nor is one better then any other (in their purest forms -hence without the violent facets) and that if you attack others with this as your motivating factor you will most assuredly die a justified and bloody death. As civil as I have tried to be, let me leave you with one thought: As I have trained, specialized and dedicated myself to Martial Arts for over 15 years now, and it would take a lot of reservation not to rip your shoulders from their sockets with that attitude. And I would more that welcome ANYONE!!!! that was radical enough to stop being a coward and fight as a true warrior! These bombs and other methods are you only way because you do not have the "balls" to face an opposing person face to face. If you come to my country, and you speak and celebrate the deaths of my innocent neighbors, in the name of a regilious ideal, rest assured I will personally KILL YOU! If you feel that we are afraid to die because we don't believe in paradise, you are WRONG. I would not care one way or the other as long as you suffer a slow and VERY painful castration! So, please continue to celebrate and plan, but be ready, because at that one moment you have forgot to look both ways or look behind you, I will be there, we will be there and no matter what... YOU WILL BE NO MORE!!!

The truly MAGNIFICANT were the people that wanted to help others from dying. You deserve no such glory only the death that you want to justify. Be ready!!!!!!

SICK OF IT said at August 29, 2003 3:24 PM:

I have an idea. It's very practical. Let's invite all these radical islamic animals to not only attend, but be active participants in the demolition of a large building. They could B.Y.O.B., bring your own bomb, and blow the shit out of each other. Think of the money that could be saved, (those demolition guys charge a fortune), and we could rid the world of some of these sick, depraved excuses for human beings. They are worse than animals. They have no redeeming value whatsoever. What kind of religion espouses death and suffering as a means to make the world a better place? There is no way to reason with someone like that. There is only one solution, send them to allah and let him deal with them.

endeavorhaqq said at August 29, 2003 9:16 PM:

To "suep". What "seems" to you in no way is fact or truth. Your study is still in its infancy. P. Muhammad had come across various peoples including Christians and Jews. If he was influenced by the Christians version of P. Jesus, why wouldn't he continue with the same? Jesus is a Prophet from the same God that sent Adam all the way through to Muhammad, descendent of P. Abraham. Muslims await his return. Also if Muhammad (P) was "copying" simply what he heard from those he met, how do you explain the details of human embrology, among several other scientific info. found in the Quran? Visions? Inconceivable. P. Muhammad was an unlettered man. Copying or reading for that matter could not be done on his part. There was no arabic translation of the bible in his time as well. Continue, continue to study. May God in His Mercy give you more time to thoroughly investigate Islam.

MUJAHID said at September 1, 2003 12:27 AM:

Certainly the ummah Muslim will living under Shari'ah and ridding all Muslim land not only of the occupiers, but also the dictatorial regimes and secularists. All over the world, from Indonesia to Khazaktan call for the return oh the Khilafah system, of ruling solely by the shariah, can be heard.

Allahu Akbar!

Randall Parker said at September 4, 2003 9:30 AM:

To endeavorhaqq: You say your prophet was a scientific genius. What did he discover about physics or math or chemistry? Nothing. Nothing at all.

As for an Arabic translation of the Bible at the time of your prophet: it is questionable whether Arabic even existed at that point. The Koran as you know it today may be an erroneous translation from a Syro-Aramaic language into Arabic.

Religions should enjoy no special status in a modern society. They should be subjected to just as much critical analysis as secular ideologies receive. Some religions are a threat to free society and should be treated as such.

Vortex453, What is irresponsible is to fail to judge.

To all you ranters posting in bold and ranting: you aren't helping any. Try being more mature. It is harder work. But you'll learn a lot more if you try thinking thru a problem and propose solutions that have some chance of being implemented. Yelling "Kill! Kill! Kill!" may be emotionally satisfying but it isn't helping to solve any problem we face.

Bob said at September 4, 2003 3:16 PM:

Randall does not mention an important issue.

This is his blog. He pays rent to have this blog and to provide this comments section just as someone might rent a home and welcome guests. He provides this comments section to welcome intelligent discussion of diverse viewpoints and opinions.

For each of the people who have posted above, stop and consider what welcome you might receive if you stood in his living room and said the same thing.

endeavorhaqq said at September 4, 2003 8:00 PM:

"Randall Parker" Humbly research this one site (among several) WWW.ISLAM-GUIDE.COM The scientific contents in the Quran could not have been known over 1,400 years ago b/c the technology to discover it was not around. For example, embryology...how could a man know about fetuses when it requires a microscope to do so? Modern day scientists have discovered and are discovering scientific evidence on earth already mentioned in the Quran.

Bob said at September 4, 2003 10:05 PM:

Endeavorhaqq,

I don't know why you would put your host's name in quotes--it is his real name.

It does not require a microscope to see a fetus or to see how the placenta attaches to the uteran wall. It requires a knife, and 1400 years ago it probably required a recently deceased mother or a sick sadistic murderer.

One does not perform science by reading a book and then by looking for some sign somewhere that something vaquely sort of resembles what it maybe says in the book.

While I welcome people of many faiths into my home, I ask any who attempt to proselytize in my home to leave because such acts show intense disrespect for my atheism. It is solely up to Randall to decide what is or is not appropriate in his blogspace, but somehow I doubt he pays for this site because he wants to give you a platform from which to promote your faith.

It's all well and good that you have found something you are willing to accept on blind faith and that gives you some sense of purpose and hope. If it is your goal to prove something about your faith to we kafirs, nobody here is interested. If you have some original thought to share or some cogent point to make, please do; you will then be an effective ambassador for your faith. Otherwise, please run along and try not to hurt anyone with your faith or to blow anything up for that matter.

endeavorhaqq said at September 8, 2003 7:43 PM:

Bob,
I didn't know Randall Parker was a real name, think it strange to put your real name on the internet. Correction please. The Quran gives in detail the development of the EMBRYO not the fetus-which is obviously easy to see with the naked eye. Did YOU investigate the site I posted earlier? WWW.ISLAM-GUIDE.COM. If not how can you make any credible statements? In my years, I have yet to find anyone who can dispel the scientific information found in the Quran. In fact, MANY have converted to Islam because of the science! My journey to Islam took years...NO blind faith here. There is no disrespect in any of my posts, but rather an invite to honestly research Islam. Your post however displays what you accuse me of. Hypocrites rarely see their own hypocrisy...

Bob said at September 9, 2003 7:36 AM:

"Endeavorhaqq",

>>strange to put your real name on the internet.

As strange as it may seem to you, there are people on the internet who value intellectual honesty and who are not afraid to stand behind what they say.


>>The Quran gives in detail the development of the EMBRYO not the fetus-which is obviously easy to see with the naked eye. Did YOU investigate the site I posted earlier?

Yes, I did investigate the site, and I reiterate: One does not perform science by reading a book and then by looking for some sign somewhere that something vaquely sort of almost resembles what it maybe says in the book. Nowhere does it say anything about embryos in the Qur'an or on the site you identified.


>>If not how can you make any credible statements?

Since I did examine the site, I guess that makes my statements credible after all.


>>In my years, I have yet to find anyone who can dispel the scientific information found in the Quran.

That's because you accept what it says in the Qur'an on blind faith and not on the basis of anything resembling science. I have read the Qur'an and it is devoid of scientific information. I don't expect you to give up your blind irrational faith that it does, but you will waste your breath and annoy people who might pose a threat to you and to your brethren if you insist on pushing your aggressive and irrational agenda. You are a very, very poor ambassador for your faith albeit an excellent paradigm of why Islam, itself, poses a threat to the world.


>>In fact, MANY have converted to Islam because of the science!

Many have converted to Islam because of blind irrational faith in its alleged science. Clearly, these converts are too ignorant or too stupid to comprehend what constitutes science. They are welcome to whatever reassurance their blind irrational faith gives them, but they only solicit ridicule when they try to convince the educated to embrace their ignorance.


>>My journey to Islam took years...NO blind faith here.

Your actions on this website contradict your statement. When I see a contradiction between what a person says and what a person does, I give greater credibility to what a person does.

In fact, one can see from your posts on this site that you have flitted from one blind irrational faith to another throughout your entire life like some fickle little girl.


>>There is no disrespect in any of my posts, but rather an invite to honestly research Islam.

Then you must be shocked and horrified by your co-religionists who imprison or kill evangelical Christians who invite muslims to honestly research Christ in Arabia and other islamic countries. You have invited nothing. You have insisted that others accept your blind irrational faith in the alleged scientific statements of the Qur'an. You have refused to accept that anyone can investigate your "evidence" and form a valid, rational contrary opinion.


>>Your post however displays what you accuse me of. Hypocrites rarely see their own hypocrisy...

Your ad hominem does not persuade me; although, it is typical of the blind irrationality and hostile prejudice inherent to your faith that makes it such a threat to the world.

You have not provided a single substantive or even intelligent reply to what I wrote. Run along and try not to hurt anyone with your religion.

James said at September 11, 2003 12:10 AM:

Muslim Leaders are secretely laughing at the unbelievable stupidity of a small minority their people. Told that they were to expect 1000 virgins to take care of them in heaven, they now spend an eternaty being raped by demons in hell. Muslim controlled countries are simply jealous of the west, they seem unable to produce a decent economy and live 300 years in the past, the vast majority of their leaders are absolutely pathetic and just hide behind their religion. Change your retarded leaders or destroy the world (those are the choices for Muslims today). Take the latter choice and you're signing your religions Death Warrant.

Travis said at September 11, 2003 4:54 AM:

I urge everyone in the UK to protest against this evil group, al-Muhajiroun. They are planning to hold conferences entitled the Magnificent 19 across the UK in north London, Birmingham and Manchester to celebrate the actions of September 11. There is no place in British society for these people. Most are recent immigrants who serve as leaches upon the British health and welfare system. Respect British beliefs and take your retoric and yourselves elsewhere.

ykm said at September 11, 2003 5:04 AM:

ben laden his good.

Magsy said at September 11, 2003 6:02 AM:

Islam has basically regressed into a dark hole of evil that it seems unable, or unwilling to pull itself away from. One can now see that many of the Ulema are basically racist bigots. If these ideas and the repression carried out in the name of Allah were said by a politicain he'd be called a Nazi. Because they come under the guise of religion, we are all to scared to look at them with objectivity. Bottom line.

AJQ said at September 11, 2003 6:15 AM:

If these al-Muhajiroun had any guts at all, they would try to hold their little party in the Great City of New York!

Tejas said at September 11, 2003 7:15 AM:

Endeavorhaqq :

Science is completely inimical to religion - be it the Quran, the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita or whatever else. Everything you cite by way of evidence is questionable - it's akin to shooting first and painting the target later. These claims are made by others too.

Here's a link about the scientific exactness of the Bible :
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/scibible.htm

And of the Hindu Vedas :
http://science.krishna.org/Articles/2000/08/00073.html

Using your own rationale, such an absurd form of scientific compatibility would imply that these religions are equally "true" since it was impossible to know all of this eons ago. If you don't apply the same standards to judge the validity of these faiths, it would make you a hypocrite.

Also, it's amusing that you whould choose to highlight only those parts of the Quran which you believe are substantiated by modern science. What about parts of the Quran that are unscientific and easily debunked ?

You're entitled to believe and preach whatever you want, but it would be more worthwhile were you to peddle your unscientific beliefs elsewhere - I doubt if anyone here is likely to be convinced by what you're saying.

About the al-Muhajiroun :

I'm left-leaning and think it's unfair to Muslims if you choose to disregard the multiple world-views of its adherents. But the al-Muhajiroun is utterly utterly disgusting and I'd be glad if these sick bastards were shot to death !!


Bob said at September 11, 2003 7:28 AM:

James,

Lots of leaders laugh at the unbelievable stupidity of a small minority of their people (well, that's actually understated)--in any case, it's not a uniquely muslim phenomenon. And to pick a nit: I believe it is only 72 virgins or is it wrigley's chewing gum? I keep forgetting; although, I admit the prediction of wrigley's chewing gum 1300 years before its invention is quite a feat of prognostication. I wonder whether any websites publicize the feat?

I suggest your either/or choice is overly simplistic, and I suggest the problem goes much deeper than the current leadership. Muslims need to repeal and to reject some hypocritical doctrines introduced by early muslim despots and still contaminating their religion. Muslims also need to let go of sanctimonious prejudices that are deep-seated, widespread and historically enduring.

I caught a few minutes of a talking head panel involving muslims and non-muslims while channel-surfing recently. Of the panelists, only one had anything mature and thoughtful to say about Islam. Her name is Irshad Manji, a muslim lesbian who hosts a gay issues TV programme in Canada. It was refreshing to hear a Muslim state in public that the base texts of the faith are in many ways self-contradictory and open to wide interpretation. It was also refreshing to hear a Muslim who not only notices but can articulate the longstanding, smug prejudice nearly ubiquitous among Muslims. Finally, I found it particularly heartening to hear a Muslim voice suggest that at least part of the solution involves Muslims choosing to embrace religious universals and to let go of past insularity and arrogance.

At the same time, I found it sad, disturbing and alarming that Irshad was forced to work so hard to squeeze in those points among all the prejudice and misconception blindly regurgitated by the other panelists.

Her observations regarding the base Islamic texts are more hopeful than mine. She observes that Muslims can make of their religion what they will, and this empowers Muslims to reform their faith. I observe that the bellicosity of many passages will likely continue to re-emerge as violence among a small minority no matter how enlightened the majority of Muslims become. I find it difficult to trust a religious text with a chapter devoted to the rationalization of larceny murder and to the disposition of wealth thereby attained.

I suspect I disagree with Irshad's politics, but my suspicion says more about my prejudices of homosexuals and of Canadian media personalities than any knowledge of her politics. While I have stumbled across her gays issues programme, I have never found it sufficiently interesting to stay tuned.

Bob said at September 11, 2003 7:45 AM:

Magsy,

The Ulema demonstrate one of the contradictions of the Islamic faith. While the Islamic texts demand ecumenism, those same texts establish an inherently anarchic religious "order." Anarchy, of course, inevitably leads directly to the exact sort of strongman kleptocracy so prevalent in the Islamic world.

maz said at September 11, 2003 8:17 AM:

ALL YOU GUYS NEED TO STOP HATING AND TRY A LITTLE LOVING, YOU CANT BUILD NOTHING ON HATE. MY OBSERVATION OF THESE POSTINGS ARE THAT EITHER THE MUSLIMS ABUSING THE WESTERNERS OR THE WESTERNERS ABUSING THE MUSLIMS. EVERY INDIVUDUAL IS EQUAL AND SHOULD BE DEALT WITH ACCORDING TO HIS MERITS. IN MY OPINION EVERYONE WILL BE REWARDED FOR THE GOOD DEED THEY HAVE DONE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT INDIVIDUAL IS A MUSLIM, CHRISTAN, JEW, ETC.

CUF said at September 11, 2003 8:30 AM:

What's the difference between famine stricken Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia has a valuable commodity known as oil. Once the United States can break our dependence on middle eastern oil the terror sponsoring countries will lose the greatest source of income and power that they have ever known. Without oil what will they export, sand? Their economies will collapse and they will be too busy scraping together their next meal to give any concern about the "infidels" of the world.

A key element to defeating terrorism is to stop funneling billions of dollars to these terror states. Where did Bin Laden get the money to fund terror camps and finance terror attacks around the world? From his family's construction company in Saudi Arabia. Where did the Saudis get the money to pay for all the construction? By selling oil.

There are many options for alternative fuels. Methanol as a fuel was heavily researched during the oil crisis of the 70's. It can be produced domestically, putting money into the pockets of American workers instead of the bank account of some middle eastern terrorist. As soon as OPEC increased the supply and the prices dropped the US government and private sector alike seemingly forgot about the seriousness of our fuel dependency. Where would we be today had our moves to alternative fuels in the 70's continued to fruition? Who knows? But one thing is for sure, Saudi Arabia would have lost a huge share of the 1.5 TRILLION dollars of revenue that they have generated from oil exports over the past 25 years.

Why send so much money to terror sponsoring states when we can keep it right here where it belongs?

Contact your political representatives and tell them that you want alternative fuels now! We've waited 25 years longer than we needed to. Why wait even another year?

Bob said at September 11, 2003 8:38 AM:

Maz,

If I am not mistaken, Endeavorhaqq is a westerner--a midwesterner to be exact--which suggests to me that your own prejudices are racist in nature.

I suggest you might think a little more clearly if you take your capslock off.

Quoting our host:

To all you ranters posting in bold and ranting: you aren't helping any. Try being more mature. It is harder work. But you'll learn a lot more if you try thinking thru a problem and propose solutions that have some chance of being implemented.

Laughing at Islam said at September 11, 2003 11:34 AM:

Mohammed was rejected from the line of Kings for Israel. Israel is a living testament of which religion God favors. If allah needs the help of people such as the hijacking cowards from 9/11 what kind of god is he? allah is not a god at all if he needs the help of muslims to punish westerners. Furthermore, could you post your mailing address MUJAHID? I know some grieving relatives that would like to cram a 737 up your families ass!

Bob said at September 11, 2003 2:14 PM:

A great comedian once commented,

"What's with those terrorists and monkey bars...All those training videos and all we see are terrorists swinging on monkey bars..."

We are set apart from those idiots in that our country protects freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion.

So little men, go play on your monkey bars.

One other comment, sometimes you have to take one hit to give two. We will not go away, we will not back down. You brought the fight to us, you have already lost.

Bob said at September 11, 2003 3:10 PM:

Bob,

Your constitution protects freedom and divides power among the institutions of government. Do you honestly believe your country protects freedom, though?

In many ways, your constitution seeks to establish and to perpetuate a balance of power because almost every institution, group and individual in your country tries in some way to limit or to erase the freedom of someone else.

In case you hadn't noticed, plenty of videos showing soldiers, marines, rangers and seals in training show pretty much the same monkey bars. What are they doing? They are training for strength, agility, endurance and coordination.

Islamism has far from lost. It remains a firmly entrenched and potent force throughout the middle-east and across asia. The US has toppled one extremely feeble Islamist regime and one less feeble non-Islamist regime. Consequently, a significant fraction of the US military is tied down. Asymmetrical warfare remains a growing concern, and the Islamists have shown great resourcefulness and a desire to escalate the conflict. I suspect your boastful conceit belies wounded insecurity.

Bob said at September 11, 2003 6:19 PM:

Boastful, yes. Conceit, nay. If an Islamic temple were for some reason attacked in my area, I would protect those in it. Gee, let's take a look at the extremist Islamic factions...protect me..My family...Please save your views for those which lack mental clarity. Freedom resonates, and always will. For Men, Women, People of all races, religions here in the US. We responded by a direct attack. We focused on that attack, we took care of business.
Asymmetrical warfare? It's time for adult swim- you kids get out of the pool.

Mr. Blow em up said at September 11, 2003 8:27 PM:

My two cents here:
Jesus -> sent by G_d, lived a sinless life, fulfilled Jewish prophecy, crucified, defeated death.
Muhammud -> sent by Gabreal (archangel)-> was a sinner, died, still dead.

There is one inherent flaw with this false Islamic belief system: since when did G_d send any of his
angels to grant a mortal designation of prophet? Through out human history G_d directly spoke to and
granted those with special visions or wisdom: Noah, Moses, and of course Jesus with whom G_d gave us to
redeem the world of sin and to give mankind hope of eternal life.

Muhammud had visions, but from who, really, who? Are we sure it was truely "Gabreal" or perhaps it was
Lucifer himself. Since Lucifer was a high angel before he fell, he does serve as the prince of the air
on Earth. I truely believe Muhammud was deceived, and he fell for it. Now 1.6 billion poor souls are
living a Pagan religion.

Muslims are taught to hate the "Big Devil" (the Americans) from day one of conversion or from day one of
birth. They are taught to destroy the infidels (westerners and Isreal supporters alike) simply because
we don't share the same theology, even though we do have a common monotheistic base: ONE G_D. However, is
it really G_d's way that they [muslims] have the right to conduct "jihad" and kill thousands of innocent
people and then celebrate it as "something Allah told us to do" ? I highly doubt G_d wants us to kill
each other since G_d is a compassionate G_d, and remembering the "Ten Commandments", I don't think the
muslim religion holds much respect at all.

You Islamic followers take heed: you need to police your own! Remove your radical fools since they are
making your religion a joke.

Somehow, I feel like it's too late: armageddon has already started. It will be a war of religion and mass
death, and the sad thing is.... no one can stop it.

Mr. Blow em up said at September 11, 2003 8:27 PM:

My two cents here:
Jesus -> sent by G_d, lived a sinless life, fulfilled Jewish prophecy, crucified, defeated death.
Muhammud -> sent by Gabreal (archangel)-> was a sinner, died, still dead.

There is one inherent flaw with this false Islamic belief system: since when did G_d send any of his
angels to grant a mortal designation of prophet? Through out human history G_d directly spoke to and
granted those with special visions or wisdom: Noah, Moses, and of course Jesus with whom G_d gave us to
redeem the world of sin and to give mankind hope of eternal life.

Muhammud had visions, but from who, really, who? Are we sure it was truely "Gabreal" or perhaps it was
Lucifer himself. Since Lucifer was a high angel before he fell, he does serve as the prince of the air
on Earth. I truely believe Muhammud was deceived, and he fell for it. Now 1.6 billion poor souls are
living a Pagan religion.

Muslims are taught to hate the "Big Devil" (the Americans) from day one of conversion or from day one of
birth. They are taught to destroy the infidels (westerners and Isreal supporters alike) simply because
we don't share the same theology, even though we do have a common monotheistic base: ONE G_D. However, is
it really G_d's way that they [muslims] have the right to conduct "jihad" and kill thousands of innocent
people and then celebrate it as "something Allah told us to do" ? I highly doubt G_d wants us to kill
each other since G_d is a compassionate G_d, and remembering the "Ten Commandments", I don't think the
muslim religion holds much respect at all.

You Islamic followers take heed: you need to police your own! Remove your radical fools since they are
making your religion a joke.

Somehow, I feel like it's too late: armageddon has already started. It will be a war of religion and mass
death, and the sad thing is.... no one can stop it.

Bob said at September 11, 2003 8:43 PM:

Mr. Blow em up,

I am going to try to paraphrase your post. Let me know if I misunderstand any of your major points:

Christians are right.
Muslims are wrong.
Jews were right but have now been wrong for 2000 years.
It's blasphemy to type God's name, but perfectly okay to type Allah's name.
Even though Muslims are wrong, they should police the radically foolish wrong among them.
It's all going to end in a horrific bloody mess, and it is pointless to try to avoid this because it is all foreordained.

Does that about sum up your position?

Mr. Blow em up said at September 11, 2003 9:10 PM:

pretty much.. but the condesending post bothers me not.

Perhaps I should say "Allah (p.b.u.h)"... does that make
you feel better? Either way, if you believe in Islam, it's
your business. Don't make it a point to convert the entire
world of it, since no one other than the Arabs the the like
will fall for such a pagan belief system. I wish Abraham
only had Isaac... we'd not be in this religious mess.

Bob said at September 11, 2003 9:11 PM:

Hey, You respond to me but only on your terms. You never answer my questions; never respond to the reality that we live in a free country (and I use "we" because I assume you are in the US- unless you choose odd hours to sleep). You impugn freedom, you impugn all things outside your "box", and trust me your box is a mighty small box.

Try and sell me on your position. You are winning? Please look at an end game....You ultimately lose.. Freedom always wins.

Take care, Bob (sign your name, coward...)
Sincerely,
Bob

Western Wonderer said at September 11, 2003 9:11 PM:

It is sad to see just how ignorant some people really are, on both sides of these touchy and often mis-informed issues. Being a Canadian who's parents moved here from a country that was thrusted into a military coup d'etat (which was backed by the Americans during the cold war) I have found myself in a country that has a undeniable and very visiable unsegrigated ethnic mixture. We have churches of all religions in our neighborhood, and society groups of all ethnicities, and we only know peace. To my American brothers and neighboors I only ask that we as westerners begin to focus on the really important question of "what is cousing human beings to sacrifice thier lives and run jetliners into office buildings full of innocent people?" Find the answer to this before you start dropping millions of pounds of bombs on other innocent people. Knowledge is what seperates the ritious from the ignoble. Peace to all religions, faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and nations.

Mr. Blow em up said at September 11, 2003 9:21 PM:

The answer is simple.. they hate the "Great Satan" which is us.. the Americans. They want the whole world to
convert to Islam and start chanting "There is only one G_d his name is ALLAH (pbuh), and Muhammud is his prophet". Muhammud is still dead, right? I highly doubt he'll be coming back. There is no hope within the Islamic belief, so they all want to get thier 72 virgins and kill as many "unpure" people as they can. What a sad, sad way to live: no hope, death, hate and eternal fire.

Randall Parker said at September 11, 2003 9:58 PM:

Western Wonderer, Everyone has grievances. Just because some group feels incredibly angry and morally indignant and morally superior and can trot out a large list of claims about their enemies does not make them right. There are huge historical examples I can point to (e.g. WWII) where the aggressors were convinced that they were righting some wrong and deserved to do what they did. They felt justified. They killed millons. Well, were they justified?

My point here is simple: just because someone feels strongly aggrieved and angry doesn't mean that the angry person is justified in his anger. You have to examine each case. I happen to think that Muslims are deluding themselves as to the extent to which they have been victimized by others while at the same time they are ignoring all the situations where they have been the ones doling out unfair treatment to others. Humans do this all the time though in the modern world most do not use a religion to supply them with a justification for their own double standards and hypocrisy.

Canada knows only peace? Then how come Arabs are attacking Jews on Canadian university campuses? More generally, I seriously doubt that immigrants to Canada get along with each other any better than do immigrants to the United States. There is no special aspect of Canadian society that makes it a better melting pot than the US.

The main reason terrorists focus on the US is that, in strategic terms, the US is the center of gravity of the West. If you want to set up a worldwide Islamic theocratic state then your biggest obstacle is the US of A.

To other readers in this thread: two guys different guys both named Bob are exchanging insults. One of them is dumb enough to think the other one is using a fake name and he's even insulting him over it. This is ironic because he's not using his full name either. Plus, the guy who is claiming the other guy is not using his real name is the second Bob to start posting in this thread. So the second Bob already ought to have noticed (not that lazy ranters put up the effort to pay much attention before they start insulting and ranting usually) that he'd have to use more than his first name to differentiate himself from the other Bob. But this is all very dull boring and tedious. I really think the insults and unreasoned responses are just an inconsiderate waste of the time of all the other readers.

I haven't been of the habit of deleting messages that are complete wastes of time. But if it keeps up I'll have to change my policy.

Endeavorhaqq, I use my real name on my blogs. As for your religion: Islam is not the slightest bit scientific. Scientific claims are falsifiable. Religious claims about the afterlife and the supernatural realm are not falsifiable. There is no experiment that can be done to prove or disprove pronouncements about the supernatural. Also, the Koran does not provide us with any physics formulas and it didn't reveal, say the germ theory of infectious disease or anything else that could be classified as a scientific discovery.

hwacker said at September 12, 2003 5:27 AM:

Well now for Canada

Most people of this country were patriotic and believed in morals and stood up to the people that did not.

Fast forward to today, there are more here today that come from countries (excluding Europe) that need an ass kicking for that way they treat the citizens, but instead of changing their homeland they come here to change Canada.

(Side note: if you come to this country and your family has not contributed to the making of it. IE: fighting for the western way of life, you’re not a Canadian you’re just a Freeloader. If you really believe in this country stand the fuck up and be counted.)

Canada should have stood along side of USA, England to fight these people. These groups are in Canada and need a one way ticket back home Pronto.

As for the Muslim religion just one thing, it’s the 21st century not the 12th you may want to see a doctor for that dyslexic. Razors and real cloths have been available for 100’s of years now.

If you don’t like the way‘s of the majority in your country go back home and take all your aunt’s, grandmothers, cousins with you. You’re not welcome here.

hwacker

biodun said at September 12, 2003 5:54 AM:

It is amazing to see that one nation can harbour so many ill mannered and blatantly uneducated 'people'. Now we all can see why you so deserve Bush and the pain he is going to bring to you. You believe he is taking you somewhere. Yes he is but it is hell and in a hand basket at that! Just watch what happens to next year's elections and thereafter.

Just to educate you: the land you call America is not yours but was stolen by virtually wiping out the original owners (remeber the 'redskins'?). It was then built with the yet unrequited sweat and blood of the African slaves while the white layabouts, well, laid about. And what favours have you ever done the world since then? The French, yes, those cheese eating surrender monkeys, rescued you from the hands of the brits while you continue to take at gun point more in oil and every other earthly treasure from the world than you could ever give. Even Hitler was your pal and sponsored by the Bushes until Japan forced you into the war! At the moment you are pissing up the planet and top it all up by thinking the fact you are the greediest bunch of air heads in the universe proves you are something special.

But God is a just God and your crimes are neither forgiven nor forgotten. Like every other empire built on blood, as all empires are, your end is nigh and the world awaits with bated breath what the universal sovereign has in stock for you.

hwacker said at September 12, 2003 5:56 AM:

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=76702&cid=6835336

Laughing at Islam said at September 12, 2003 7:28 AM:

I truly believe that arabs are born with less intelligence than the rest of the world. America goes to take away a horrible man from Iraq and all the A-rabs are pissed. Do they remember what life was like before America showed up? It appears not. Species without memory are not intelligent. Some jackass makes a religion where killing people is ok, just say it is freedom of religion. It is ok to kill children and women in the name of religion.
Millions have grown up in the ways of the koran and still can not figure it out. Where is the intelligence? OK let see... I will make a religion that dumb people can follow... If you join you get to kill anyone just say jihad... Oh that wasn't enough.... how about the 72 virgins did I mention them yet... They will be yours too! Will you follow me now? Yeah another twenty million joined! It is so easy to fool stupid and hopeless people. If it is such an honor to die for allah why hasn't bin laden done it yet? Because thousands of equally as stupid people are willing to take the hit. OH and by the way, I have solved global warming!!!! All the dying arabs, iraqis, and taliban are stoking the fires of hell with their fresh bodies!!! Kill them all and let the one GOD sort them out!

Bob Badour said at September 12, 2003 8:41 AM:

I apologize Randall.

I took something of a devil's advocacy with respect to the other Bob to give him an opening to say something thoughtful on freedom, democracy, the American system of governance, the prosecution of the war, the true extent of the war, the risks we face, human nature, mob mentality etc.

My post was intentionally provocative hoping to provoke thoughtful dialog, but the hope was unreasonable. I apologize.

I included my remark about wounded insecurity to inform the other Bob what he actually communicates with his boastful conceit--both to America's enemies and to America's potential allies. Those who are secure in their strength have no need to talk about it. Or in other words, those who carry big sticks can afford to talk softly.

Anyone who has studied a little history of warfare knows it is a conceit to think one knows the outcome of a war in its early stages, and the multigenerational war we face has barely begun.

My later observation that the other Bob's continued boastful conceit confirms wounded insecurity was unecessary and counter-productive. I apologize.

I find it interesting the other Bob thinks that he asked any questions or that I impugned freedom or that I am confined to some cognitive box or that he thinks he can predict my mind or that he thinks he can predict the end game from the opening moves, but I agree it would be pointless and counter-productive to pursue these matters.

While a reasonably proficient internet user should be able to find accurate driving directions to my home from my first name and my email address, I will start using my full name when posting to your site to avoid confusion.

Mr. Blow em up is obviously not reading what was previously posted, so I won't bother addressing anything further from him.

Western Wonderer:

The most recent immigrant in my family was a great-grandfather who immigrated to Canada from Pennsylvania well over a century ago. Canada is not a country at peace. Canada's official policy of multi-culturalism has created a fractured and fractious society where malignant collectivism has metastacized throughout the entire spectrum of political thought. Canada was founded on ill-conceived principles with a system of governance mindlessly copied from an imperial monarchy.

The following recent events characterize Canada:

  • Police who subdue political dissent first with pepper spray, and after specific threats to that effect from our Prime Minister, with wooden clubs.

  • Horrific knife battles over the presence of chairs in a cafeteria.

  • Universities capitulating to violence and to threats of violence by prohibiting free expression and free thought on campus.

  • Primitive tribalism leading to armed standoffs with police.

  • Deeply entrenched poverty and despair among racially and geographically segregated sub-groups.

  • Ongoing tolerance and capitulation to demands for ever increasing political and economic preference for a linguistic minority.

  • Systematic bombing and terrorism campaigns among organized criminal groups.

  • An established historical precedent of extortive payments to specific minority groups for perceived past wrongs without regard to historical context.

  • Military mobilization under martial law to quell armed political revolt.
The list goes on.

endeavorhaqq said at September 12, 2003 7:29 PM:

www.islam-guide.com ; Quran and science.

endeavorhaqq said at September 12, 2003 8:25 PM:

Yes, I did investigate the site, and I reiterate: One does not perform science by reading a book and then by looking for some sign somewhere that something vaquely sort of almost resembles what it maybe says in the book. Nowhere does it say anything about embryos in the Qur'an or on the site you identified.

**If you're looking to find a chemistry formula, of course its not in the Quran. The science in the Book makes reference to human embryonic development, atoms, geological concept of mountains, atmosphere and lack of oxygen, etc. The knowledge known today by experts could not have been known over 1,400 years ago by a man who was not a scientist. www.islam-brief-guide.org


That's because you accept what it says in the Qur'an on blind faith and not on the basis of anything resembling science. I have read the Qur'an and it is devoid of scientific information. I don't expect you to give up your blind irrational faith that it does, but you will waste your breath and annoy people who might pose a threat to you and to your brethren if you insist on pushing your aggressive and irrational agenda. You are a very, very poor ambassador for your faith albeit an excellent paradigm of why Islam, itself, poses a threat to the world.

**First off, LOL. I find your posting to be illogical and exaggerated. You assume quite a bit for not knowing me. You come across as one who appears educated, yet your words reveal an insecure person who finds it convenient to fit people in neat little packages. My "brethren"? So you assume every Muslim is a clone? 1.4 billion people are on the same agenda? LOL.

Many have converted to Islam because of blind irrational faith in its alleged science. Clearly, these converts are too ignorant or too stupid to comprehend what constitutes science. They are welcome to whatever reassurance their blind irrational faith gives them, but they only solicit ridicule when they try to convince the educated to embrace their ignorance.
**FYI the converts I am mentioning are SCIENTISTS...as the Qur'an says, "Those who know". You're going to tell an embryologist he or she is "ignorant or too stupid" to know clearly what in the Qur'an regarding their own field of expertise? I sense you won't accept the truths in the Qur'an even if an expert proved you wrong. WWW.THETRUERELIGION.ORG/CONVERTS


Your actions on this website contradict your statement. When I see a contradiction between what a person says and what a person does, I give greater credibility to what a person does. In fact, one can see from your posts on this site that you have flitted from one blind irrational faith to another throughout your entire life like some fickle little girl.

**I find it doubly strange that an atheist is so bugged out when he or she comes across someone who believes in a Creator. If you don't want to believe in Islam, so be it. The vast majority of Muslims actually don't give a rats ass if you believe or not! All thats requested is mutual respect and kindness. Do tell when was the last time a Muslim assaulted you b/c you reject religion?


Then you must be shocked and horrified by your co-religionists who imprison or kill evangelical Christians who invite muslims to honestly research Christ in Arabia and other islamic countries. You have invited nothing. You have insisted that others accept your blind irrational faith in the alleged scientific statements of the Qur'an. You have refused to accept that anyone can investigate your "evidence" and form a valid, rational contrary opinion.

** Your anger is misdirected at ALL Muslims. In your haste to dismiss and over-analyze, you accuse me of intentions I never think of. My job as a Muslim is to invite others to study and answer questions if any. The rest is up to God. Yes I completely reject what those individual militants are doing. Again, you exaggerate. Christians, Jews, atheists, communists, etc. exist peacefully side-by-side with Muslims in every predominately Muslim nation. S.A. and the Taliban are on their own.


>>Your post however displays what you accuse me of. Hypocrites rarely see their own hypocrisy...
Your ad hominem does not persuade me; although, it is typical of the blind irrationality and hostile prejudice inherent to your faith that makes it such a threat to the world.

**LOL. Your imagination is amazing.

You have not provided a single substantive or even intelligent reply to what I wrote. Run along and try not to hurt anyone with your religion.
**The real threat to this world are not the Muslims. Look in the mirror "Bob".

Randall Parker said at September 12, 2003 9:53 PM:

Endeavorhaqq, non-Muslims exist peacefully side-by-side with Muslims in every Muslim-majority nation? In Indonesia Muslim para-militaries and gangs are attacking and killing Christians and other non-Muslims in many parts of Indonesia. In Sudan the Arab Muslims are in a decades long civil war against the black animists and Christians of southern Sudan and have killed many of them.. In Pakistan Christian church attendees and Shia Muslim mosque attendees are attacked by Sunni Muslim radicals. Few Jews live under Muslim rule in any Muslim country because once Israel achieved independence the Muslims increased their oppression of Jews in all Arab Muslim countries and the Jews fled for Israel, Europe and the United States.

I could go on Mr. Endeavorhaqq but suffice to say that in the real world Muslims don't treat non-Muslims very well in just about all Muslim countries. If anyone wants to judge Islam then I would suggest a look at how Muslims treat non-Muslims. Islam condemns itself by the actions of its believers.

endeavorhaqq said at September 13, 2003 9:48 AM:

Mr. Parker,
The instances you listed in no way represent the entire Muslim population in those areas. How can the actions of individuals or groups bring the conclusion that ALL Muslims are involved...or for that matter, Islam is involved? Political strife or long-term injustices are what motivate people to rebel and harm. Be reminded sir, that nonMuslims ALSO are attacking innocent Muslims. BOTH sides are guilty. Judge a follower by the rules of the religion he professes to follow, not the other way around.

Bob Badour said at September 13, 2003 9:57 AM:

Endeavorhaqq,

(Warning to Randall and to others: tedium follows--though not rancor. I have bolded key phrases and words for those who want skimmed tedium.)

Yes, I did investigate the site, and I reiterate: One does not perform science by reading a book and then by looking for some sign somewhere that something vaquely sort of almost resembles what it maybe says in the book. Nowhere does it say anything about embryos in the Qur'an or on the site you identified.

**If you're looking to find a chemistry formula

I did not look for a chemistry formula. I looked for any shred of science, and none exists in the Qur'an or on the site you referred us to.


That's because you accept what it says in the Qur'an on blind faith and not on the basis of anything resembling science. I have read the Qur'an and it is devoid of scientific information. I don't expect you to give up your blind irrational faith that it does, but you will waste your breath and annoy people who might pose a threat to you and to your brethren if you insist on pushing your aggressive and irrational agenda. You are a very, very poor ambassador for your faith albeit an excellent paradigm of why Islam, itself, poses a threat to the world.

**First off, LOL. I find your posting to be illogical and exaggerated. You assume quite a bit for not knowing me.

I assume nothing about you. You accept your religion on blind faith and this convinces you to accept fallacious arguments that stretch credulity beyond anything resembling reason. I do not have to assume anything to observe this. First, blind faith is inherent to religion--all religion including atheism. Second, I read the site you referenced so I know what you consider a scientific argument in support of your faith. One has to stretch credulity over hairsplitting etymology to even imagine the passage says anything about embryos, and that's just to get started.


You come across as one who appears educated, yet your words reveal an insecure person who finds it convenient to fit people in neat little packages. My "brethren"? So you assume every Muslim is a clone? 1.4 billion people are on the same agenda? LOL.

You assume a lot about me. The muslims I know habitually greet each other as "brother". If you do not consider your co-religionists "brothers", then you are not only a very, very poor ambassador for your faith, but you are a decidedly atypical muslim. You accuse me of illogic, but if I thought of muslims as clones, I would have no reason to postulate any relative quality among ambassadors for your faith.

However, my prejudices are such that I assume those who would present a threat to you and to your brethren are likely much less discerning than I am. They will look at your aggressive and irrational agenda and paint your entire creed with a single brush. At the same time, I cannot entirely fault them for this because your religion du jour has a longstanding history of extending its territory by aggressive and violent means, and the base texts of your religion contain explicit instructions and rationalizations for followers to pursue this aggression and violence. Your evangelism does nothing but remind we kafirs of this historic and continuing threat.


Many have converted to Islam because of blind irrational faith in its alleged science. Clearly, these converts are too ignorant or too stupid to comprehend what constitutes science. They are welcome to whatever reassurance their blind irrational faith gives them, but they only solicit ridicule when they try to convince the educated to embrace their ignorance.
**FYI the converts I am mentioning are SCIENTISTS... (emphasis mine)

Am I to deduce some point in your observation? Other than those who should know better doubly deserve ridicule? I strongly recommend How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich. While you are entirely welcome to whatever blind faith you want, I suggest you seek to correct your faith in the infallibility of human beings or at least of your co-religionist human beings.


as the Qur'an says, "Those who know". You're going to tell an embryologist he or she is "ignorant or too stupid" to know clearly what in the Qur'an regarding their own field of expertise? (emphasis mine)

Yes, I am. Can you name the embryologists to whom I should direct my ridicule?


I sense you won't accept the truths in the Qur'an even if an expert proved you wrong. WWW.THETRUERELIGION.ORG/CONVERTS

Blind irrational faith in an alleged truth has nothing to do with expertise. For someone to "prove" me wrong, he or she would have to stick to a scientific argument, which as Tejas already observed would be completely inimical to religion.


Your actions on this website contradict your statement. When I see a contradiction between what a person says and what a person does, I give greater credibility to what a person does. In fact, one can see from your posts on this site that you have flitted from one blind irrational faith to another throughout your entire life like some fickle little girl.

**I find it doubly strange that an atheist is so bugged out when he or she comes across someone who believes in a Creator.

Bugged out? Again, you assume a lot about me. I find you tedious and disrespectful. You don't bug me out; you bore me.

As a lifelong devout atheist, I am quite secure in my faith's imperviousness to the machinations and sanctimony of any serial apostate. You mentioned hypocrisy; I suggest you contemplate the concept.


If you don't want to believe in Islam, so be it. The vast majority of Muslims actually don't give a rats ass if you believe or not!

If that were true, why would you persist here in your zealous pursuit of Islamic evangelism? Actions speak louder than words.


All thats requested is mutual respect and kindness.

As I mentioned a long time ago, I find your zealous evangelism intensely disrespectful to my atheism. I have expressed that you are entirely welcome to your blind irrational faith. Please show me the same respect and kindness of allowing me my blind irrational faith.


Do tell when was the last time a Muslim assaulted you b/c you reject religion?

Just now. See above for some clearer examples. On September 11, 2001. Interestingly, I have also been kidnapped by a Muslim who somehow convinced himself his crime demonstrated his moral superiority and respect. Can you imagine anything more insane?


Then you must be shocked and horrified by your co-religionists who imprison or kill evangelical Christians who invite muslims to honestly research Christ in Arabia and other islamic countries. You have invited nothing. You have insisted that others accept your blind irrational faith in the alleged scientific statements of the Qur'an. You have refused to accept that anyone can investigate your "evidence" and form a valid, rational contrary opinion.

** Your anger is misdirected at ALL Muslims.

Anger? You assume a lot about me. I have no doubt you find it unpleasant when I note your hypocrisy and your dissemblance, but I can note these things with complete dispassion and ennui. I suggest you honestly ask yourself whether you might have projected any anger you perceive.


In your haste to dismiss and over-analyze, you accuse me of intentions I never think of.

I read the site you referenced as evidence. I made a pointed observation based on my valid, rational, contrary opinion. You dismissed the observation with the explicit assumption I had not read your evidence. I once again suggest you honestly ask yourself whether you might have projected haste, dismissal, over-analysis and accusation.


My job as a Muslim is to invite others to study and answer questions if any. The rest is up to God.

Nobody asked; I suggest you leave Randall's website in the hands of God.


Yes I completely reject what those individual militants are doing.

You describe entire societies as individuals?!? Do you not realise how disrespectful it is to dissemble the way you do?


Again, you exaggerate. Christians, Jews, atheists, communists, etc. exist peacefully side-by-side with Muslims in every predominately Muslim nation. S.A. and the Taliban are on their own.

While you express desirable harmony, all evidence contradicts your blind faith in this alleged ecumenism.


>>Your post however displays what you accuse me of. Hypocrites rarely see their own hypocrisy...
Your ad hominem does not persuade me; although, it is typical of the blind irrationality and hostile prejudice inherent to your faith that makes it such a threat to the world.

**LOL. Your imagination is amazing.

What did I imagine? Your ad hominem? Your blind irrationality? Your hostile prejudice? The ad hominem, blind irrationality and hostile prejudice clearly evident in the base texts of your religion? I again suggest you honestly ask yourself whether you might have projected any hypocrisy you perceive.


You have not provided a single substantive or even intelligent reply to what I wrote. Run along and try not to hurt anyone with your religion.
**The real threat to this world are not the Muslims. Look in the mirror "Bob".

With all due respect, I have never flown an aircraft full of innocent passengers into a building full of innocent workers, I have never condoned or excused any similar activity, I have never funded any organization that arranges or supports such activities directly or indirectly, I have never condoned or excused anyone who has funded or supported such an organization even when the person is ignorant of the organization's activities, I have never condoned or excused anyone for condoning or excusing these individuals, I have never issued a religious edict calling for the murder of any civilian population, I have never condoned or excused any such religious edict, I have never condoned or excused anyone for condoning or excusing such an edict, I have never taken pleasure, affirmation or solace in the murder of any civilian or of any innocent soldier, I have never excused or condoned anyone who has taken such pleasure, affirmation or solace, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I like what I see in the mirror.

Bob Badour said at September 13, 2003 10:13 AM:
Mr. Parker,
The instances you listed in no way represent the entire Muslim population in those areas.

You are correct. Those instances only represent the prevalent attitude of the vast majority of Muslims in those areas. One can speculate on the existence of a handful of tolerant Muslims in each of those locales.


How can the actions of individuals or groups bring the conclusion that ALL Muslims are involved...or for that matter, Islam is involved?

One need not rely on the actions of a few individuals to know that Islam is involved. One need only study the history of Islam and the base texts of the religion.


Political strife or long-term injustices are what motivate people to rebel and harm.

The petulant resentment of abject losers motivates violence too.


Be reminded sir, that nonMuslims ALSO are attacking innocent Muslims. BOTH sides are guilty.

Which sides are those? How is it that Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, Animists, Pagans, Atheists, Christians and Jews manage to peacefully coexist almost everywhere but none can seem to refrain from attacking Muslims? Have you looked for the root causes of this phenomenon? I recognize injustice exists in the world, and I also recognize that Muslims receive far more injustice and repression from their fellow co-religionists than from all Kafirs combined.


Judge a follower by the rules of the religion he professes to follow, not the other way around.

I have read the Qur'an. Believe me: You do not want we Kafirs to judge Muslims by those rules.

hwacker said at September 13, 2003 10:52 AM:

Endeavorhaqq

There is something wrong with your religion, Period. If you think not? You’re living a sheltered life.
These people are using your holy book as a tool for war, killing and oppressing people. (Don’t quote me on the Christian Crusades that was 800 years ago)
-What’s wrong with the rest of the Muslim community to clean this up?
-Maybe they don’t want to?
Here’s a little snippet that bends the minds of these poor believers

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

endeavorhaqq said at September 14, 2003 9:30 PM:

hwacker-
The verse you quote is incorrect in translation. The word in arabic is 'walee' meaning 'guardian', the word 'sadeeq' meaning 'friend'. The verse clearly has the first word meaning, "Take not the Jews and Christians as guardians..." Friendships between Muslims and nonMuslims is perfectly encouraged, and is done so in every generation, in every nation.

Bob-
You do amaze me. Incredibly DEEP in analyzing. Atheists don't matter to me, but arrogance and impolite behavior does. Can you simply reject Islam in a few sentences without the long-winded post? Does this make you feel superior to do so? Humbleness is a virtue.

endeavorhaqq said at September 14, 2003 9:53 PM:

hwacker-
To further comment...
There is something wrong with your religion, Period. If you think not? You’re living a sheltered life.

**Sir or ma'am - please use common sense. First, I am a convert to Islam after years of research. My life is far from sheltered. Second, IF Islam were a religion solely about violence, it would not have survived for over 1,400 years. There is nothing wrong with Islam.

These people are using your holy book as a tool for war, killing and oppressing people.

**CORRECT. "These people..." INDIVIDUALS are using the religion as a tool for war. It can not be over-simplified by blaming the faith for the actions of individuals.

-What’s wrong with the rest of the Muslim community to clean this up?

**The Muslim communties around the globe are involved and doing their best to assist authorities in hunting down and eliminating terrorists. Terrorists are not a nation. Do terrorists 'hang out' with the community they live in? Highly doubt it. The average Muslim is just as frustrated by these thugs who are tarnishing Islam.

-Maybe they don’t want to?

**Don't know the answer to that.

Randall Parker said at September 14, 2003 9:54 PM:

Endeavorhaqq, You wouldn't try to deceive us in order to prevent us from knowing the truth would you?.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html
Excerpt:
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/quran/translations/005/005-051.htm
Excerpt:
Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
O People who Believe! Do not make the Jews and the Christians your friends; they are friends of one another; and whoever among you befriends them, is one of them; indeed Allah does not guide the unjust.

endeavorhaqq said at September 14, 2003 10:02 PM:

Mr. Parker-
I just attended a lecture last Friday on this verse. The word in the Quran is "walee" which can only be translated as "guardian" or "protector". The word "sadeeq" (friend) is not in the sentence. Why the mistranslation, I don't know. For the very reason that I DO believe in and am accountable to a Creator, I will never intentionally mislead anyone.

Randall Parker said at September 14, 2003 11:11 PM:

Endeavorhaqq, Why do you trust the person who delivered the lecture over the judgement of at least 4 translators who all spoke fluent Arabic?

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/abutaw/abutaw_13.html
Excerpt:
Walee: The "Saint"

The term saint has been used to translate the Arabic word Walee (pl. Awliyaa) which Allaah used, to designate those who are close to Him. But, a more appropriate translation is "close friend" because Walee literally means an "ally."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary/term.WALI.html
Excerpt:
Wali
Other Commonly Used Spellings: WALEE
legal guardian. A friend or protector. Someone who is supposed to look out for your interest.

Bob Badour said at September 15, 2003 8:00 AM:

Randall,

Even if we accept Endeavorhaqq's translation, I observe the passage instructs Muslims to distrust Christians and Jews, which means they could at best be mere acquaintances. As an atheist, I find little comfort in his hairsplitting etymology. More tedium follows.

Endeavorhaqq,

Bob- You do amaze me. Incredibly DEEP in analyzing.

I suggest you amaze yourself, and I disagree regarding depth of analysis. Make no mistake: As an ambassador for your faith, you are modelling nothing but prejudice, arrogance, hypocrisy and sanctimony, and I find you very boring. The shallowness of your prejudice, arrogance, hypocrisy and sanctimony requires no depth to counter. I long ago pleaded with you to contribute an original thought or some cogent point, and thus far you have proved unable or unwilling to do so.

Assuming the risks of an armchair psychologist, I note that some individuals turn to religion seeking to avoid original thought. When I consider your history of serial apostacy, I notice you jumped from religion to religion in the direction of increasing self-righteous vehemence, insularity and evangelism. You seem to make heavy use of projection as a psychological defense. Is it possible you have a psychological need for moral superiority, a dislike of original thought and a psychological need to avoid critical self evaluation?

I would like nothing better than for your behaviour here to demonstrate flaws in the above analysis.


Atheists don't matter to me, but arrogance and impolite behavior does.

Your insistent presense here contradicts the former, and I humbly suggest you merely project the latter.


Can you simply reject Islam in a few sentences without the long-winded post?

I did not reject Islam. I rejected your prejudice, misconception, mischaracterization and dissemblance. I agree regarding the long-windedness of your posts to which I replied.


Does this make you feel superior to do so?

No. It bores me. Does it make you feel inferior?


Humbleness is a virtue.

If that is your belief, I humbly request you model the virtue.


**Sir or ma'am - please use common sense.

I humbly ask you practise what you preach.


First, I am a convert to Islam after years of research. My life is far from sheltered.

You already explained your serial apostacy to us; you do not need to repeat the explanation.


Second, IF Islam were a religion solely about violence, it would not have survived for over 1,400 years.

Please justify the above apparent non sequitur.


There is nothing wrong with Islam.

I can enumerate many flaws of Islam. The first and foremost flaw, in my mind, is the doctrine that the arabic Qur'an is a perfect recording of God's actual words in God's preferred language.

If I have learned one thing in this life, I have learned that denial is the ultimate, absolute evil.

Consider the message you communicate to we kafirs when you refuse to engage in any critical analysis of your faith or of yourself. You model the worst stereotypes of Muslims. Given your anonymity and the cartoonishly stereotypical caricature of a Muslim you have painted on this site, I wonder whether you are even a Muslim but perhaps only an infantile, online troll.


The average Muslim is just as frustrated by these thugs who are tarnishing Islam.

Why, then, does the average Muslim spend more time chastising America than chastising their co-religionists who support these thugs? The one-sidedness appears petty and petulant to me as a Kafir.

endeavorhaqq said at September 15, 2003 8:23 PM:

Bob-
How you come to your conclusion that I display "prejudice, arrogance, hypocrisy and sanctimony" from a simple invitation to investigate Islam is beyond me. Go back to the first post, without a judgemental attitude, and assess again if I at any time gave such examples. As I read through your replies, I get flashbacks to my college days when I had a most unplesant Literature teacher who bored the hell out of her students. Her remarks were longwinded, boorish and inappropriate to the subject. It was apparent from the start she was a show off, as if she wanted to prove to HERSELF she was above the other people in her presence. She was painfully oblivious to how much the class dismissed her. It was a GREAT relief when the semester finally ended. Enjoy this life Bob.

www.themodernreligion.com

Bob said at September 16, 2003 4:32 AM:
How you come to your conclusion that I display "prejudice, arrogance, hypocrisy and sanctimony" from a simple invitation to investigate Islam is beyond me.

I had already noticed your general lack of self-awareness. I humbly invite you to contemplate my earlier statement regarding denial.


Go back to the first post, without a judgemental attitude, and assess again if I at any time gave such examples.

Yes, you did beginning with your first response to me. You handle yourself extremely well when you reply to unthinking, ignorant fear and hatred, but you fail utterly when you confront a thoughtful, informed, indifferent person. While you are very polite--in form, if not in attitude--I find you as unthinking and ignorant as the early posters you chastised.


As I read through your replies, I get flashbacks to my college days when I had a most unplesant Literature teacher who bored the hell out of her students. Her remarks were longwinded, boorish and inappropriate to the subject.

You would have greater credibility had you contributed an original thought or some cogent point. I humbly suggest you consider whether you have projected again.


Enjoy this life Bob.

Thanks, I intend to.

dandelabole said at January 8, 2004 3:24 AM:

if moslems are all nazis & welcome death more than life,then why can't we in the west as believers help them on their way post haste.take no moslem prisoners.erase all moslems from earth.leave not one anywhere,after all they worship the devil allah & the false prophet mohhamad a paedophile & anti-christ

Fred said at March 11, 2004 4:23 AM:

Islam is the dirtiest religion in the world !!!!!


Koran is just the BULL-SHITS OF Mohammod , their " so-called " damn fucking prophet !


MOVE ONWARD , HOLY CHILDREN OF GOD !!!


H-a-l-e-l-u-j-a


Praise the Lord !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

AN(Z ON ITS SIDE)NON AmoUSE said at August 16, 2004 4:18 PM:

BEWARE, QUEERS, THOSE WHO WANT TO GIVE THE "PALESTINIAN" TERRORIST LINES AND PEDOPHILES ARE USING CHURCHES TO COLLECT MONEY.
DID U EVER WONDER WHERE THE QUEERS R GETTING THE MONEY TO FIGHT IN THE COURTS? THEY R DOING IT THROUGH FRAUD ON THE INTERNET AND OPENING CHURCHES.
CHINA IS DOING WHAT THEY CALL TOTAL WAR. NOW THAT WE ARE OCCUPIED IN IRAQ, THEY ARE PRESSING TO SEE IF WE WILL TURN A BLIND EYE RE:TAIWAN. THEY R USING THE MUSLIMS, COMMUNISTS, ANARCHISTS, THOSE WHO WOULD SELL THEIR COUNTRY FOR A DOLLAR(LIKE THE CON SULTAN TENTS)(DEM(EM AND ENS ARE "PRINTERS" TOOLS(NOTE TOOL IS LOOT BACKWARDS-AIN'T THE EVIL ONES CLEVER?)OCRATS).
AL THANI, AZIZ AND THE SAUDIS HAVE BEEN POURING MONEY INTO THIS NATION AND CRIMINALS AND SOME CORPS WOULD LIKE TO SEE ISLAM IN AMERICA BECAUSE THEN THEY CAN TAKE OUR GUNS(LIKE THE UN WANTS) AND EVENTUALLY...U WOULDN'T BELIEVE ME IF I TOLD U-THEIR HAS BEEN A PLAN SINCE THE FOUNDING OF OUR NATION TO STEAL IT). WHO WANTS IT? MOSTLY ITS THE MOB, NAZIZ, THOSE WHO WANT TO TAKE ALL OUR FREEDOMS AWAY.
I WILL BE WRITING A BOOK AND EXOSE THEM ALL......I'LL BE DAMNED IF I WILL LET THEM CONTINUE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES WITH THIS NATION WITHOUT EXPOSING THEM.
BTW-OUR LAND OF THE "FREE" HAS BEEN MO'ING(IDING US FOR YEARS-THAT TOO WILL BE EXPOSED(SCREW U ADVERTISING CORPS), FRAUDSTERS, CRIMINALS AND ALL ENEMIES OF FREEDOM!

whowantstoliveinasandbox said at September 12, 2004 3:10 PM:

Don't get me wrong but terrorists crack me up! They are as big and BRAVE as there so-called ALLAH(HBBH), that they try to look like a "MILITARY FORCE" but they will not show their FACES! I see a WHOLE LOT OF BRAVERY IN THAT! Just think if real MILITARY MEN walked around in ski masks during fighting and nightgowns the rest of the time! It takes a BIG MAN to hide his ugly little hairy face! Also, how good do these people do math, for every innocent they kill, they die tenfold, I really appreciate those numbers!! My goodness, I wonder which way the scales are tipping??? Another thing that I especially like to see a terrorist do besides make asses out of themselves worldwide, is to watch them prematurely blow themselves to smitherings! That is better than sunshine and butterflies folks, nothing soothes the soul better than a stupid terrorist getting so trigger happy, because he can't wait for his first lay with the 72 virgins. You really have to appreciate the fine art of being a terrorist, after all they are too lazy to work, so they have free time to kill others. Their family trees have no branches, so moms and sister are also wives, daughters and slaves; and they use less power, less water and
save a ton on designer clothing. Boy, terrorists have a hard job, hating themselves for making their own little hell on earth. Can anybody tell me how Israel won the 7 day war? And why in the hell did Ishmael get sent PACKING! Oh sweet Isaac, the chosen SON!! You gotta love it!! GOD IS GOOD, ALL THE TIME!!

WISEMAN said at October 15, 2005 8:57 PM:

I am a man who belives in god and belives in jesus, I belive in what is righteous because i have a conscious, I respect peoples relegions i respect peoples races, I do not consider my self to be a Christian, jew, satanist, Catholic, or muslim but i belive in god and i leave it at that, pray for forgivness and leave it at that, i do not bother other people leave it alone you cant argue because people will always choose to belive in what they belive, its poinless. do not kill in the name of god, if you truly belive in him God will take avengance in his own hands, every one dies any ways, and every one gets Punished at the end, even if you dont belive in god i respect that too.

Dennis said at February 6, 2006 5:23 PM:

Did you know your God is a gay goat srrewwe

FUCK ISLAM said at April 2, 2006 12:20 AM:

Lost Verses of the Koran

Surah 115: The Pig

Bismillah:

The hurried flight of the Hegira had led the Muslims to a fertile oasis, where they were at last safe from their many enemies in Mecca.
Pausing, each thanked Allah the moon-god for their good fortune.
Assembling at a long table, they enjoyed rare delicacies brought by bare-breasted sirens whose faces were veiled. During the feast Muhammad sternly forbade his disciples to partake of pig flesh, while fondling the youthful breasts of a Nubian girl named Sheba.
Obeying the Prophet, the pilgrims partook of the succulent flesh of jackals and vultures, washing their food down with strong wine.
“I never dreamed I’d have to eat the loins of a jackal, let alone the bitter entrails of a cursed vulture,” observed a hungry pilgrim named Ahmed to a fellow Muslim, choking on the unpalatable morsels.
“Neither did I, but the Holy Prophet has ordered it,” grumbled another starving follower, almost heaving as he consumed greasy vulture flesh.
“A rancid pork chop would taste a hell of a lot better than this crap does,” retorted Ahmed.
“It’s an acquired taste brother, you’ll get used to it,” spoke up another, smiling with a mouthful of rotten teeth.
“I don’t think so,” said Ahmed, forcing down a burned jackal testicle.
An uncaring Muhammad, famished, greedily wolfed down roasted jackal in enjoyment, quaffing from an earthenware wine carafe on occasion, while choosing which of the sirens that would soon endure his favors.
The meal finished in the late afternoon, a drunken, lustful Muhammad initiated a sex orgy with the sirens, the debauched Holy Prophet, Allah speaking through him, declaring all earlier betrothals or marriages of the women he knew null and void.
The Muslims celebrated their good fortune, again thanking Allah for the bounty they had been blessed to receive.
Later, as Muhammad sat half-naked under a palm tree, masturbating to the thought of molesting little girls, Ahmed chanced by and remarked, "Oh great prophet, why does Allah say that we cannot dine on delicious porcine flesh?"
"Why?" asked Muhammad, closing his filthy, tattered, moth-eaten robe, "Because Allah's younger retarded cyclops brother is a pig, and Allah doesn't want us killing his holy kinfolk."
"Allah is a pig?" asked Ahmed, staring at Muhammad.
"Of course," replied the deranged Prophet, hallucinating thanks to ingesting strong hashish minutes earlier.
"That's ridiculous, why in hell do we worship pigs?" asked Ahmed, thinking his flight from Mecca may have been the result of heeding the words of a false prophet, possessed of a capricious desert demon who delighted in seeing them consume the flesh of vermin.
"Because they're better than we are," answered a smiling Muhammad, now fantasizing about raping little boys, "Look at me, I'm little more than a lecherous child molester, thief and murderer!"
"True, but pigs can't even talk!" exclaimed Ahmed, digging a heel into the sand.
"Allah can, he speaks to me in my dreams," retorted the wildly hallucinating Muhammad, barely able to focus on Ahmed, seeing him in double vision.
"You're a madman," declared a disgusted Ahmed, "I'm heading back to join the infidels in Mecca!"
"Who cares?" retorted Muhammad, slurring his words and breaking into riotous laughter.
Prophet Muhammad, opening his robe and again reaching for his flaccid sex organ, was too occupied with masturbating his building erection to reply further, while Ahmed disappeared behind a sand dune.
"What a stupid, perverted, licentious bastard," spat Ahmed, walking off, "Muhammad is crazier than a shithouse rat!"

Surah 116: The Pervert

Bismillah:

And it came to pass that Muhammad was growing ever hornier and more depraved: In a dream it was revealed by Allah that he was to molest a young girl named Ayesha.
Drunk on strong wine, the Prophet looked to a follower named Khalil and announced, “Allah has said I am to have sex on this day with a child; the virgin daughter of my brother in law Abu.”
“What?” asked a frowning Khalil, holding a wine bottle, taken back by the remark and turning to Muhammad.
“I am to know Abu’s daughter Ayesha,” declared Muhammad, a finger in the air, becoming visibly aroused at the thought having sex with her.
“She is but a little girl who plays with dolls; her womb does not yet weep, are you insane?” asked Khalil, knowing in his heart that the Prophet was little more than a pervert, thief, liar and murderer.
“Probably, but it is the will of Allah”, Muhammad said to himself, staggering off to the hovel of Ayesha.
“What a twisted devil the Prophet is – the will of Allah my ass, he’s just an evil, depraved monster who lusts after the flesh,” Khalil mumbled, putting the bottle to his parched lips.
An oblivious and uncaring Muhammad blundered down the street, weaving as he went, arriving at the hovel shortly thereafter.
Knocking on the door, Ayesha’s mother Umm appeared.
“What do you want Prophet?” she asked, staring at the debauched Muhammad, clad in a filthy tan robe covered in dust and wine stains, a lone flea crawling upon his moustache near his nostrils.
“Bismillah, I am here to take your daughter Ayesha in bed,” the Prophet answered, slurring his words.
“You licentious beast!” exclaimed the girl’s mother, “She is only six years old, if it is indeed the will of Allah, take me instead to satisfy your wanton depravity!”
“Taking you is not the will of Allah,” retorted Muhammad, the scent of wine heavy on his foul breath, “You are a wrinkled and faded flower without comeliness; be gone with your favors; I could never get a hard on at the likes of you.”
Enraged by her rebuff, Muhammad smote her upon the face with a backhand.
“That’s what one gets for disobeying the will of Allah,” declared Muhammad, his words punctuated by a loud belch, “Take me to Ayesha, that I may know her on this day!”
Obeying, Umm reluctantly led Muhammad to the room of Ayesha, opening the door.
“This perverted Prophet here wants to screw you,” announced Umm with a frown, Muhammad ogling the virgin child in double vision.
“But you knew my cousin Abdullah, younger brother of Ahmed not an hour ago,” replied a shocked Ayesha, dropping her doll, revolted by the sight of the filthy, lascivious pedophile Muhammad.
“Be that as it may, Allah has said I will also know you,” said Muhammad with an expectant smile, the gleam of lust in his eyes.
“Why me?” asked Ayesha, looking to the Prophet with trepidation.
“Because Allah has said it and I am horny, let us lay down, that I may know you,” ordered Muhammad as he removed his robe, Ayesha’s mother shaking her head in helpless disgust and closing the door.

Surah 117: The Murderer

Bismillah:

Muhammad and his followers enjoyed many days away from Mecca at the oasis, home of his oafish brother in law, Abu Bakr, who was also Muslim.
Dining on roast jackal, vultures and snakes, their strength was renewed by the bounty Allah the moon-god provided: plentiful food for their bellies and plentiful sirens for their carnal pleasure.
Khalil was upset that the Prophet was an evil lecherous pedophile who had known a little girl, so he went to the home of Ayesha to speak with her father, Abu the oaf.
He made his way to the hovel, and knocked on the door.
Ayesha’s mother opened the door, frowning as she beheld another of Prophet Muhammad’s followers.
“Is life not bad enough, what are you here for, to rape my daughter, me, or one of my sons?” she inquired with disdain.
“Indeed not woman, I must speak with your husband, not you,” said Khalil, who as a good Muslim, looked down upon women as little more than objects of pleasure, or dogs to be beaten into submission.
“My husband Abu is very drunk,” she related, lowering her gaze in respect.
Khalil entering the hovel, the oaf Abu appeared from a side room holding a wine bottle, and slurred, “What do want here, follower of the Prophet?”
“I must speak with you regarding your little daughter Ayesha,” answered Khalil.
“What about her?” asked Abu, blinking his eyes and trying to focus on the man.
“The Prophet came unto her in her room a fortnight ago; do you not know?” asked Khalil.
“He has come unto her many times since, she is his wife,” replied the unconcerned oaf.
“His wife you say - you permitted it?” asked Khalil, stunned by the revelation.
“Of course; he has come unto one of my nephews too, Muhammad is a pederast, it is the will of Allah,” declared a shrugging Abu.
“He’s raping our child you drunken bastard!” exclaimed a tearful Umm, looking to Khalil.
Abu smote her across the face, admonishing, “Take care woman, speak not ill of Prophet Muhammad, it is the will of Allah. The Prophet first knew Ayesha in a dream, when Gabriel showed her to him, uncovering her body for him to see.”
“That’s really sick, she’s only six years old,” observed Khalil.
“Better for the great Prophet to know her than one of the infidels,” declared a smiling Abu.
“Prophet my ass, Muhammad is a depraved monster possessed of a demon; how could permit such a thing, you are her father!” exclaimed Khalil in utter disgust.
“Yes I am, and the Prophet says I will know her too,” confessed Abu, contemplating the odd thought of having sex with his own daughter.
Umm burst into tears and sobbed, throwing herself to the floor upon hearing Abu’s repugnant words.
A fearful Khalil fled the hovel, not knowing what to think; realizing Muhammad and his brother in law Abu were wicked licentious perverts and vicious rapers of children, possessed of capricious and malevolent demons.
Later, Abu spoke with the Prophet while they entered a brothel together. He told him of the strange encounter with Khalil.
Khalil’s an idiot, he takes Islam much too seriously,” replied Muhammad, looking to his oafish brother in law.
“It is a bad omen Prophet, Khalil woefully disdains your marriage to Ayesha, and disdains that I am to know her too,” declared Abu, even he feeling deep down that such a liaison was distasteful, but knowing it was the unalterable will of Allah, the moon god.
“It is the will of Allah for you to know your daughter, did not Lot of Sodom know his daughters in the cave?” asked a slurring Muhammad, quite drunk, leaning against a wall to steady himself.
“Yes Prophet, he did,” answered Abu with firm resolve.
“Indeed, it was and is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad, picking a flea from his beard and crushing it between his fingernails, “As for our problem, I will have a dream tonight, and Allah will order me to kill Khalil.”
“He will?” asked Abu, putting a hand to his chin in confusion, “But I thought the Perfect, Most Merciful Pig Allah never revealed his intentions until you had a dream.”
“No matter oaf, he is making his will known to me by making me drink strong wine on this day,” said a quickly lying Muhammad, holding up a bottle.
“Don’t you drink strong wine everyday?” asked Abu.
“Not as strong as this stuff,” replied the Prophet with a broad smile, “It has hashish oil in it; let us partake of a pair of this brothel’s women and enjoy wine together.”
As Muhammad and Abu descended into more revelry and debauchery, a troubled Khalil approached another of the Prophet’s followers, the one with rotten teeth. Telling him of his woes, he awaited the reply.
“Who cares what he does, have vulture and some wine,” said the man, tearing a leg from a roasted, maggot-ridden carcass and offering it to Khalil.
“You don’t care that Muhammad is a deranged pervert who has sex with little children?” asked Khalil, taking the leg.
“Hell no, I’m only here for the food, I was starving in the alleys of Mecca before I met Muhammad,” replied the rotten toothed man, grabbing more vulture flesh and a wine bottle.
“Oh,” answered a defeated Khalil, taking a bite from the leg and reaching for wine.
Late evening came, with Khalil and the other followers drunk and passed out in their tent.
Muhammad and Abu awoke at the brothel after midnight, rested and refreshed.
“What are we to do about Khalil?” asked Abu as they left via a side door, avoiding an encounter with the brothel’s madam, to whom they owed money.
“Leave that to me oaf,” answered the Prophet, holding up a hand, “In my dream Allah told me how to deal with him.”
Muhammad headed down the street and stealthily entered the tent of his followers, intent on taking Khalil’s life. Abu Bakr followed him through the entrance, looking about for possible witnesses.
Holding an oiled leather garrote, the smiling Prophet mercilessly strangled the sleeping Khalil, knowing in his heart that it was the will of Allah.
The helpless follower struggled defiantly as a determined Muhammad gritted his teeth and pulled the garrote tighter, crushing Khalil’s windpipe, the Prophet letting out foul gas from his posterior due to the exertion. The struggling ceased; he and Abu then quietly removed the body from the tent and carried it into the desert.
“That takes care of that problem,” declared a satisfied Muhammad as he pocketed the garrote, he and Abu making their way to his hovel so he could know his young wife Ayesha again.
“When will I know her Prophet?” inquired Abu in the lamplit hovel, looking to his daughter’s room.
“Very soon, Allah has said it, go know your wife Umm for now, oaf,” suggested Muhammad with a smile, opening the door to Ayesha’s room.

Surah 118: The Liar

Bismillah:

Time passed, and a strengthened Muhammad and his followers left the fertile oasis. The Prophet was joined by his young wife Ayesha and her father, oaf Abu, who left the remainder of his family stranded at the oasis, his wife Umm dying of grief shortly afterward.
Not one of the party dared question the vanishing of Khalil, some fearing that they too would vanish, perhaps due to Allah’s will or worse.
Muhammad told his followers that Khalil was an evil infidel, and had fled because he had coveted Ayesha, the child looking to her husband the Prophet, she and her father knowing he was not telling the truth.
“That is not true my father, Khalil only came to tell you of the Prophet knowing me,” Ayesha whispered, she and Abu standing only a few cubits from Muhammad.
“Take care in what you utter among others child, some things are better kept to oneself,” answered Abu quietly, not half the oaf the Prophet thought he was.
The rotten toothed man was listening intently; he had watched from the shadows while a smiling Muhammad strangled Khalil, but wisely kept this knowledge to himself, vowing to flee the group at the earliest opportunity.
Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, came unto his daughter Ayesha over several evenings in a tent at the beckoning of the Holy Prophet, oddly finding her favors more satisfying than those of his wife.
Feeling strange from the experience of knowing his own daughter, a troubled Abu sought wise Muhammad’s advice.
“It was the will of Allah,” declared the debauched Muhammad, drunk on strong wine, “Allah has also revealed it is you which will sire her firstborn in her twelfth year; her incestuous bastard child Fatimah.”
“I will?” asked Abu, incredulous that he would be siring a child by his own daughter.
“Yes,” replied the Prophet, removing his filthy robe, “But first I must satisfy my carnal urges, by indulging in her favors myself.”
Prophet Muhammad entered the tent and came unto the young Ayesha, who complained that she was sore from knowing her father three times in one day.
Striking her across the face, Muhammad admonished, “Keep your mouth shut wife and be thankful to Allah that only I and your father are knowing you.”
“Yes Holy Prophet,” Ayesha replied, closing her eyes and wincing in pain as Muhammad again knew her.
Arriving in Medina the following week, the Muslims found friends in this city, delighting in drunken revelry and the favors of veiled, tempting harlots with dark eyes.
A lecherous Muhammad, Ayesha and his brother in law Abu took up residence at a fine brothel, the Prophet and the oaf sampling the offerings over many weeks, finding that Medina had the finest of all harlots in the land.
Many residents of Medina found that Islam was a faith that appealed to them, Allah’s unalterable will moving the people, they abandoning their staid ways, joining with Prophet Muhammad in idleness, licentious revelry and drunkenness.
Abu later visited the Prophet in his tent, informing him of dreadful news that Medina was host to a band of Jews.
“Jews you say, the people of the book,” answered Muhammad, “They are bitter enemies of Allah and Islam; we will not suffer such people to live in our midst.”
“But there are 40 score or more of them in the city Prophet, do the warriors of Allah have the numbers to defeat them?” asked Abu.
“Of course oaf,” declared the evil Muhammad, “We shall wait until the dark of night, prowling by stealth, and then cut their throats as they slumber; Allah has willed it.”
Listening in the shadows, the rotten toothed man determined it was time for him to flee. Regardless of the free food, he wanted no part of a group of vicious, skulking cowards who would slaughter people as they slept.
Allah’s will was fulfilled on the next night, 40 score Jews meeting their end at the hands of the deranged, murderous pedophile Muhammad and his obedient Muslims.

Surah 119: The Thief

Bismillah:

A fortnight passed, with many of the remaining people of Medina embracing Islam, and others fleeing for their lives, with the exception of a wealthy merchant named Sabri and his family.
Sabri vexed the followers with his words that Prophet Muhammad was little more than a drunken liar, murderer, and wanton sexual pervert; a wicked, lascivious monster and pedophile who kept the company of prostitutes, drunks and the slothful.
In another dream, the Holy Prophet learned that the vexing merchant had to be silenced, and that he had been chosen by Allah to murder him.
Telling Abu of his dream, he and Abu plotted the murder of Sabri the merchant. After enjoying strong wine together, they headed to his home on a dark late evening, let in by a lovely servant girl.
Muhammad and the oaf Abu observed the opulence of his residence; Sabri dressed in a fine silk robe with a silk turban, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers.
His wife and the lovely servant girl brought food and a carafe of wine for her husband, they disdainfully looking upon the filthy, debauched Prophet and his henchman Abu.
“Why will you not submit to Islam, it is the will of Allah,” declared the evil Muhammad, looking to Sabri, looking for the chance to end his life.
“The will of Allah my ass, you Muhammad are a murderous debauched lecher and raper of children. Your loathsome followers feed on the rancid flesh of vermin instead of fine pork roasts, and defile all that they touch,” declared a disgusted Sabri, noting that the Prophet was drunk, dressed in a filthy tattered robe, with his unkempt hair and long beard matted with dirt.
“I consume the flesh of vermin too, Great Allah is a Holy, Merciful Pig, it is not halal to dine on the sacred flesh of his younger brothers,” said Muhammad with a finger in the air, Abu nodding in agreement.
“No, it is you who are a pig, you deranged cretin possessed of a vile demon,” retorted Sabri, looking upon the Prophet with hatred in his eyes.
“Those who do not submit to the will of Allah will suffer dire consequences,” threatened Abu, looking about for anyone who would dare stop them. Observing only two women in the house, he smiled, knowing that the will of Allah was about to be fulfilled.
Sabri paused, staring at the Prophet and Abu in contempt, hoping he could in some way persuade them to leave the city, noting that business had fallen off to practically nothing since the arrival of the Muslims.
“Look, if I give you money, will you and yours flee Medina and never return?” asked Sabri with folded hands, hoping he could encourage them to leave with a payment of fine gold.
“I can’t leave,” declared a smiling Muhammad, “I am serving Great Allah, the Most Merciful Pig.”
Sabri, confused for a moment, replied, “But I thought Allah was the moon goddess of Mecca.”
“Whatever,” retorted a shrugging, uncaring Muhammad while picking his nose, he knowing that Allah didn’t exist anyway.
“You are destroying Medina with your vile harlotry and wicked ways!” exclaimed Sabri.
The Prophet laughed, and replied, “Indeed not, Allah is guiding my hand in this and all my actions, providing me and my followers with what we desire: food, fine drink and the company of willing sirens, like your lovely servant girl back there.”
“My servant girl is betrothed to a good man in Mecca, you will not speak ill of her, nor will you covet her favors,” declared Sabri, noting Muhammad leering through an open door, ogling the girl and his wife.
“I will do as I wish,” retorted the evil Muhammad with another laugh, reaching into his tattered, filthy robe and producing the garrote, “I covet the favors of your servant girl, and will take her to my bed for a concubine on this night. Those such as you will not stop the will of Allah or his Messenger.”
Abu rose while the Prophet was speaking and smote Sabri upon the face with a closed fist, knocking the silk turban from his head. Muhammad descended upon him like a viper, pulling the garrote tightly around his throat, strangling him in his chair while his wife and servant girl screamed.
“Be silent women, it is the will of Allah!” Muhammad yelled through gritted teeth as he took the life of Sabri. Oaf Abu moved into the room and beat them into submission while a struggling Sabri kicked the wine carafe from the table, it shattering on the floor.
Sabri’s life vanquished, Prophet Muhammad exhaled loudly and let the lifeless body tumble to the floor.
The trembling women remained silent as Abu returned to the Prophet with them.
“Where is your money?” asked a greedy Abu of Sabri’s wife.
“A box of gold and silver is in our bedroom,” answered his tearful wife, almost fainting from Abu’s foul breath.
“I’ll get it,” volunteered a smiling Muhammad, pulling the garrote from the body, “Get the rings from his fingers oaf.”
The Prophet returned with a box of glittering coins, pleased that Allah had provided such bounty for his followers.
“I can’t get the last ring off,” complained Abu, having pocketed six others.
“Cut off his finger to get it, and take his robe and turban too,” ordered Muhammad, determined not to leave one valuable item in the house.
Abu obeyed, reaching for a knife on the table, slicing off the finger and pulling the ring from it.
Arriving at the brothel, the Prophet celebrated his good fortune by knowing Sabri’s wife and the servant girl, annulling the widow’s marriage and the girl’s betrothal in the eyes of Allah.
Later that evening Abu was given Sabri’s widow for a concubine, as he had grown weary of Ayesha’s favors, also needing an able slave to cook and serve him.
Having to beat her before he knew her, Abu thanked Allah and Muhammad for the welcome gift of Sabri’s wife.

Surah 120: The Hypocrite

Bismillah:

More time passed, with some of Muhammad’s followers finding the Prophet’s actions in Medina going against everything he had preached in Mecca, seeing him as Khalil, the rotten toothed man, and the merchant Sabri had seen him: an evil, debauched rapist, pedophile, liar, and murderer.
These and other apostate followers were quickly slaughtered as infidels, fulfilling the will of Allah; a smiling Muhammad strangling many of them as they slept.
Even Abu began to think that Muhammad’s wanton depravity may have been going too far when he encountered him in a tent knowing several young Jewish boys that had been taken captive.
“Prophet, some of the followers are complaining that you are denying them participation in the bounty given us by Allah, and that you are also practicing strange acts that Allah has forbidden to others,” related Abu, frowning at the displeasing thought of Muhammad knowing little boys.
“They want some of the gold, right oaf?” asked a drunken Muhammad, dressed in Sabri’s silk robe and turban, seven rings of gold and silver upon his greasy fingers, the fine garb growing filthier with each passing day.
“That, and some of them would also like to have some of the girls and boys for concubines,” answered Abu.
“They cannot have the little boys, Allah has given them to me for my carnal pleasure,” declared the lascivious Prophet, “As for the little girls, give them to the followers as wives, so that their carnal desires can be sated; it is the will of Allah.”
“Others say that you don’t practice what you have preached,” added a fidgeting Abu, hoping not to arouse Muhammad’s maniacal wrath.
“I’m only the messenger, Allah’s revelations don’t apply to me,” retorted Muhammad, releasing a tearful Jewish boy from his carnal embrace.
“What about me?” asked Abu.
“They don’t apply to you either oaf; would you like a lovely little boy for your carnal pleasure?” slurred the depraved sodomite Muhammad, lustfully leering at another boy he had chosen next to debauch.
“No, I find not that boys appeal to me,” answered Abu quietly, though he was a lecherous pedophile and incestuous pervert, he had no desire to sodomize little boys.
“Suit yourself oaf, more for me to enjoy,” answered the Prophet with a chuckle, undressing another captive boy, returning to his lecherous pederasty as Abu left the tent.
The city of Medina had been taken completely by the conquering Muslims, they reveling in their murderous victory over the infidels and Jews.
In another dream, it was revealed to Muhammad by Allah that they were to attack and conquer the city of Mecca. They were to subdue it and convert the inhabitants there to Islam, after which the Prophet was to take a pagan shrine called the Kaaba and defile it in the name of Allah.
“In Mecca there is glittering plunder, fine gold to steal, and many women to be taken for concubines,” declared the Prophet, “Allah has said to have faith in him and we will not fail; are you with me, warriors for Islam?”
The devoted followers answered, shouting in unison: There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his prophet!”
“We will need weapons to defeat them,” Abu observed, looking to the Holy Prophet.
“Easily done oaf,” replied an unconcerned Muhammad, ordering several henchmen to plunder the city of metal so weapons could be quickly fashioned.
Bronze implements were seized from every home; plowshares were heated and beaten into fine scimitars for the devoted followers.
As his followers labored over hot forges, Muhammad gave a sermon, declaring that vengeance, blood and death would rain down upon Mecca in the name of Allah.
The work completed over several days, a feast was held by the warriors of Islam to further strengthen them for the long journey; the flesh of rats, snakes, vultures and jackals gracing their tables. The hungry Prophet had a willing siren prepare his favorite of all dishes, fat dung beetles boiled in seasoned vulture broth.
“We should give Allah our thanks for the bounty he has provided,” declared Muhammad, seated at the head of his table beside Abu, crushing the hard shell of a dung beetle between his filthy brown teeth.
All bowed their heads in prayer, thanking Allah for the food he had provided.
“Would you like to enjoy a tasty dung beetle oaf?” asked the Prophet, turning to his brother in law, offering one to him.
“No thanks,” replied a nauseated Abu, choking down a plateful of greasy rat flesh.
Washing the unseemly morsels down with strong wine, Muhammad and his followers filled their bellies with the bitter flesh of vermin and then enjoyed the welcome favors of tempting, veiled harlots with dark eyes.
The Muslims, their women and their captives set out for Mecca on the following week, determined to exact Allah’s revenge on the people who dwelt there.
“There are many able men in Mecca, much more than we have,” observed Abu, realizing their numbers were wanting when compared to the teeming hordes of infidels occupying Mecca.
“Allah will watch over us oaf,” replied Muhammad, a sharp scimitar on his hip, he unsure as to what the outcome would be, but keeping this from the others and preparing for the worst.
“There aren’t enough of us Prophet – how will we win?” asked Abu with his arms in the air, looking at their limited numbers, no more than 50 score of able men in the service of Allah.
“Great Allah has said it, they in Mecca will embrace Islam or die for resisting his will,” the vengeful Prophet declared as Medina disappeared behind them in the distance.
A thoughtful Abu wondered why Allah would wish his followers to attack a fortified city where they were outnumbered, and also as to why Allah would have chosen a debauched murderer and licentious pervert for his Prophet.
“Oh well, it is the will of Allah,” agreed a sardonic Abu, much too committed to the deranged Prophet and Islam to back out, checking for the scimitar on his hip.

Surah 121: The Coward

Bismillah:

Returning to the oasis to gather strength before attacking Mecca, Muhammad and his followers again feasted on the bitter flesh of vermin and partook of the favors of eager women, the depraved Prophet coming unto the veiled, bare breasted Nubian harlot Sheba.
Oaf Abu learned that his wife Umm had died, Muhammad stating to him over strong wine that it was Allah’s will.
A grieving Abu came unto his new wife, the widow of Sabri, and also knew his daughter Ayesha, fulfilling the will of Allah the Pig.
The Holy Prophet also lusted for Abu’s bride, demanding that he be permitted to lay with her again.
A shrugging Abu handed her over, an angry Muhammad having to beat the stiff-necked infidel woman once again before he knew her.
“You evil murderous beast!” she screamed in tears as Muhammad was knowing her, “May the gods of my fathers destroy you and all you have wrought!”
“How dare you attempt to curse me or Allah,” grunted the Prophet as he reached orgasm, his fetid breath causing her to heave, “Take care woman, or I will expose you as the sorceress you are, giving you over to be stoned by my devoted followers.”
“Better to be dead than to endure your vile attentions again,” Abu’s wife retorted as the Prophet rose from her bed.
“Bitch,” Muhammad muttered as he left Abu’s tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban.
Leaving the oasis on the third day, the devoted Muslims resumed their journey to Mecca, Abu still troubled about their limited numbers and telling the Holy Prophet of his doubts.
“Don’t worry oaf, we will remain behind while the first wave of our brothers besiege and subdue the infidels in Mecca,” Muhammad declared in a low tone of voice, Ayesha looking up to him and frowning.
“Do you have a problem with that wife?” asked Muhammad, strangely controlling his compulsion to beat her for daring to disagree with Allah’s unalterable will.
Ayesha remained silent and looked to the ground, Abu answering, “I thought we would lead them in battle.”
“No, we are to remain behind and observe the followers take the city, it is the will of Allah,” replied Muhammad, he filled with doubts and preferring to watch from afar, as the strong hashish he had eaten in Medina had worn off long ago.
Arriving outside the city walls under cover of night, the Muslims prepared for battle in the only way they knew: skulking by stealth and murdering defenseless people while they slept.
As a full moon rose, a vanguard of devoted followers scaled the city walls, only to be discovered and cut down by the defenders of Mecca.
“Attack in the name of Allah!” shouted Muhammad while retreating to a bluff with Abu, his wives and several trusted followers, the Meccans opening the city gates to meet the glorious warriors of Allah in battle.
Seeing the Holy Prophet on the bluff by moonlight, this sight strengthened the attacking Muslims.
“The battle is not going very well,” observed Abu as the moon rose higher, watching the Muslim army being wiped out.
“Yes, Allah is displeased that our faith was not strong enough,” replied a strangely detached Muhammad, staring from the bluff at the carnage outside the walls of Mecca.
“That, or we didn’t have enough men, I told you,” retorted Abu, watching several followers being hacked to death by the defenders.
“That is possible oaf,” admitted Muhammad, Abu frowning at the reply.
“What do you plan to do to save your followers Prophet?” asked Ayesha.
“Nothing, it is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad with a shrug, still watching the battle.
Abu’s frown grew into anger as he watched a smiling Muhammad delight in the butchery of his followers.
“You’ve lost at least 30 score since the moon rose, do you intend to stay until we are slaughtered too?” asked Abu’s wife.
“How dare you speak to me unless spoken to!” exclaimed the Prophet, preparing to smite her across the face.
“My good wife Fahimah makes a wise observation,” declared Abu, using her given name for the first time, grasping Muhammad’s forearm, preventing him from striking the widow.
Pulling away from Abu, the Prophet paused and replied, “It’s time for us to leave oaf, we shall retreat to the oasis to pray and fast.”
A defeated Muhammad and his trusted followers left the bluff and headed back toward the oasis in the moonlight. Looking over his shoulder, the Prophet feared that vengeful Meccans might pursue them.
“Let us make haste,” declared Muhammad, fearing for his life.
Several days passed as they retreated from Mecca, the remaining band of Muslims at last pausing for needed rest and making a camp in the desert.
The captive Fahimah had grown to respect her new husband Abu, as he had prevented the Holy Prophet from striking her outside the walls of Mecca. Making him a meal of jackal flesh soup, she presented it to him in his tent.
“Thank you woman,” Abu replied, taking an earthenware bowl and strong wine, she nodding and leaving him to eat.
As Abu was eating, a stir rose in the camp: a lone survivor of the battle having at last caught up to the followers. Putting down his bowl, he left the tent to find the survivor admonishing Muhammad.
“You coward,” he gasped, “You left us to die, have you no faith in your visions, or are they only lies coming from your vile mouth?”
The Prophet, drunk, answered, “I had a dream after the battle, it was Allah’s will that we were defeated, as it was his will that you survived. We lost because our faith in Allah was not strong enough.”
“You lied, telling us of easy plunder and women; there weren’t enough of us to take Mecca, 50 score died outside the gates for nothing!” the man exclaimed.
“No matter, have dung beetles and strong wine to renew your strength,” slurred Muhammad, picking fleas from his beard and flinging them into a small fire at his side.
The man, much too exhausted to argue further, gratefully took a plate of boiled dung beetles and a bottle of wine, trudging off from the deranged Prophet in disgust.
A shocked Abu observed this from the shadows and retreated to his tent. Such knowledge set heavy upon him, he meditating privately on the events.
Finishing his meal, he called for his wife Fahimah, she appearing before him.
I would hear your words wife on this matter: Muhammad preaches Islam, yet he does not follow the words of Allah.”
“He is your Prophet, you have sworn to serve him and Allah, my words are those of an infidel,” she answered respectfully.
“Still I would hear them, for there is wisdom in what you utter,” Abu replied.
Fahimah, still fearful of her brutal husband, yet bound by her personal honor to obey, told him of her thoughts on the Prophet and his actions.
“I care not what god he worships, but this demon in man’s guise is not a prophet of a clean desert god,” she began.
Abu looked at her as she continued, “He forces his followers to consume the flesh of vermin, delighting in their disgust. I truly believe him to be so perverted as to rape an infant - he has others carry out his murderous work while he has no courage to fight himself: you should draw a knife across your daughter Ayesha’s throat and my own to save us from the corruption of this man.”
Abu, oaf that he was, looked at her silently as she urged him to destroy the demon Prophet Muhammad, her wise words much harder to ignore than the screechings of his deceased wife Umm.

raymondorton said at May 7, 2006 1:37 PM:

Quite amazing that I stumbled on this page entirely by Google-accident but I feel I had to comment.

As background, I'm an English guy. We've obviously had our problems with these extremists too and Blair's government has been too slow to act. Not that I think we should have wasted lives and money trying to promote 'democracy' in Iraq when it was so likely we'd just open a Pandora's box of religious extremists.

I can't put up with people who say we should destroy all Muslims. There are many Muslims who take a commonsense approach to their religion, who appreciate that who are we humans to dictate the will of God? Personally I'm not that religious but that if I did knowingly do something that causes misery to others then I should be damned by God in my own conscience.

YES, God is great! as all these extremists chant rhetorically when anyone shoots them down in flames with a rational argument. That's about as far as I agree with them. God is great because he has equipped us with minds, souls and consciences - something these fundamentalist retards fail to use - instead using God as a scapegoat for their pathetic lack of responsibility. Rather like a child who says 'he made me do it'. In any other circumstances these people would be locked up in a mental institution. There are excuses banded about for this behaviour but sorry, I've had major downs in my life and I don't spout this twisted, weakminded nonsense.

To all the good Muslims and good Christians who respect peace and see conscience and self-responsibility as part of their duty to the God that created them, I respect you. I've made my point. Bless.


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