2003 July 31 Thursday
Group Lobbies For Illegal Alien College Financial Aid

Illegal aliens want financial aid to attend college.

But an Uptown-based community group is hoping to change that. The Organization of the NorthEast is lobbying a handful of local private universities to do more to help illegal students attend their campuses.

Emboldened by the passage of a recent law allowing illegal, longtime Illinois residents who graduate from state high schools to pay in-state tuition, they say there is nothing stopping schools like Northwestern from providing their own funds to help the students. Under current law, the students are ineligible for federal or state aid.

Isn't it amazing that the state government of Illinois allows illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition at government-operated universities when the people who benefit from that are breaking the law just by being in the United States in the first place?

Share |      By Randall Parker at 2003 July 31 08:38 PM  Immigration Border Control


Comments
Paul Cella said at August 1, 2003 11:21 PM:

It's hardly surprising anymore.

Bryan said at August 4, 2003 2:09 PM:

It's not just Illinois, either. Maryland has had a similar controversy brewing for a while now.

Karen said at December 19, 2003 6:57 PM:

Did most of those 'illegal youth' choose to be illegal at the first place? Think about it! A lot of them are top students in their schools, leaders in clubs...They are smart, hardworking. "They are survivors, almost all of whom have overcome the odds of growing up in tough neighborhoods and improverished immigrant families to remain in school and to succeed. Nothing could be more American. These young people deserve to be rewarded for doing the right thing, not punished."

Randall Parker said at December 19, 2003 9:53 PM:

Karen, There is one thing that could be more American: Being an American citizen. Citizenship defines being an American.

There are hardworking people all over the world who face uphill struggles to succeed. Some of them are American citizens. Money spent on illegals is money taken from American citizens.

There is a way for those youths to not be illegal: They are citizens of other countries and ought to return to those other countries where their presence is legal.

Justin Higgins said at January 17, 2004 2:39 PM:

What's the big deal if we allow undocumented people to study at in-tuition state rate? I mean just because we are US citizens doesn't mean they have no right. They are humans just as much as. Was it their fault that their parents packed their bags and came over here. We are a country of great values, and yes it is not right for them to be here in the first place, but we should think about those who came with their parents with no voice.

Jacinto Castillo said at March 30, 2004 5:54 PM:

I'm from Mexico and I would like to say that those people who think illegal aliens are taking the money of Amerincan citizints are wrong. If you guys think about it, inllegal aliens are a big part of the countries economy and the governmet takes taxes off their pay check even when they are using false documents to work. Now some of you guys are going to tell us that they have no rigth to recieve Financial Aid? I would like to see some of you go to another country and try to succeed in the school sysmtem to see how it feels to be a minority.

Luis Gutierrez said at April 5, 2004 1:29 AM:

First of all I would like to say that I love this country and everything that it stands for, it has allowed my family and I to succeed and live a respectable life. I was born in Mexico and I have been living here for the past 17 years, I have attended the public school system ever since and have contributed and participated in this community. I am currently attending a major university were I pay out-of-state tuition, eventhough, my parents have been paying taxes in this state for 17 years. My tuition per semester is around $7,000, it's hard to earn the money for school, but people like Mr. Parker inspire me. My parents haven't received any refunds for their taxes until they became residents of the state. Where are those taxes going?
Not one undocumented alien can apply for any type of federal assistance, and yet the public still speculates that we DRAIN the economy, and like the bias opinion from Mr. Parker above states, "Money spent on illegals is money taken from American citizens." HOW? Come on, we all know if illegals receive financial aid, it's going to be loans that they will have to pay back. Illegals can't receive federal assistance of any type, at least not in this state, and how would illegals take money from citizens when our own citizens aren't applying for financial aid or aren't even attending college. Mr. Parker I'm sure you deal with some scum being a border patrol, but before you speculate ask yourself what you would do to provide a better life for your own family, you've probably never been in that situation. I know you won't pollute the minds of other great AMERICAN citizens because we are intelligent and understand that this country was founded by protestant IMMIGRANTS and people that nobody wanted. So save your, "go back to your country comments," because we are here to stay. I'm attending college without financial aid, whether the goverment grants me it or not, no worries this is the greatest country of them all and I will still succeed.

Laura Anguiano said at May 1, 2004 11:11 PM:

I see that many people are against illegal aliens going to college. I think that these people should think twice in saying that because this great country was founded by immigrants that came from Europe and by the way which noboby wanted. America is the land of immigrants didn't pilgrims come from Europe? I think that children that have spent almost all their lives in the U.S. should have the right to go to college and recieve the same opportunities that a U.S. citizen has. I was born in Mexico and have lived my whole life in the U.S. I was three years old when my parents brought me here. I dont have to be punished for not being born in the U.S. I plan to attend a University and I will do anything to accomplish it. What saddens me the most is seeing U.S. citizens not taking the advantage of receiving a higher level of education and they just waste it. My friends were all born in the U.S. and they are no more than me as I am to them.For those people that will do anything to stop me from receiving a higher education I will just say that whatever you do I will try to overcome because when I get my college education I will help others get it as well.Also I didn't choose to be illegal and as I see it we are here to stay!

Francisco said at September 27, 2004 8:57 PM:

Give us a chance. We didn't chose to be here. I was a baby and I had no choice. All my friends are American. I have lived here all of my life, and i grew up here. Doesn't that make me one of you.

Uriel Romero said at September 28, 2004 8:40 PM:

I think that the U.S. is a great nation, and that all the immigrants like us have a oportunity to make this country a better nation. So I dont know why the goverment is keeping us from all the finantial aid, if we are going to give it back to the nation!!!
I'm a current senior at Tatum High School in Texas and I need some info about if undocumented aliens can atemp a college. if you know something please contact me at romeped@aol.com

Uriel Romero said at September 28, 2004 8:41 PM:

I think that the U.S. is a great nation, and that all the immigrants like us have a oportunity to make this country a better nation. So I dont know why the goverment is keeping us from all the finantial aid, if we are going to give it back to the nation!!!
I'm a current senior at Tatum High School in Texas and I need some info about if undocumented aliens can atemp a college. if you know something please contact me at romeped@aol.com

jorge vera said at October 18, 2004 5:54 PM:

Let's start by saying that if every single one of you AMERICAN CITIZENS looks back 50, 100, or maybe even 200 years ago I am positive that you will find that either your grandpa or grandma were from some little town in Europe were they were only named by their proffesion and by what they did. Do you wonder why your last name might be Gardener, or Drinkwater, or Smith......(blacksmith). Anyway, thinking that this country should be all for yourselves to enjoy is very selfish. Immigrants are not only the back bone of American culture but they are the ones that makes this nation grow little by little. The American dream is something that has fed the thoughts of succes of millions of people from hundreds of nations around the world. A lot of times immigrants are viewed as bad people that take tax payers money and that take advantage of the so called System. Well first of all let me tell you something about this immigrants. Many of them life a live of poverty and emotional distress because they have to work their tails off to be able to EAT. That is right, they have to work like mules to be able to eat, not to be able to go to the concert on Friday night, not to buy that new pair of nike or adidas shoes nor to go to watch a new movie or go shopping with their friends. Have you ever went to bed really knowing what being hungry feels like......? probably not, have you ever had to experience the cruelty of not even having a decent way of buring your love ones when they die. again you know the answer.
A vast number of poor people are victims of their environment, at it takes a lot to try to get out of it. Many times immigrant don't have the luxury of getting into the states by plane, instead they have to endure harsh conditions of the texan desert with their frigid nights and lava hot days. For them the thought of getting into America the land were everyone is equal and everyone has a shot of improving their lives is the only driving force that keeps them in their feet. And the ironic thing is that once they get to America they do became "just as equal as you", cleaning the floors you walk by and cleaning the bathrooms you used, doing the job that in reality you don't wanna do because is to "low" for you. if they didn't do that job, would you want to do it?......yes.....nahhhh I don't think so. Trust me this immigrants would rather be doing something else too but they can't because they weren't as lucky as you to get educated the way you did, but they do have in their mind that one day hopefully their sons or their son's son won't have to do that anymore because he or she will aslo be educated. What can be less selfish than to do whatever you have to do in order for someone else to do better than you.....i don't think i have seen that anywhere else.......ever.
There are so many other things that go on that it would probably take me all night long to talk about, i can tell you thought that US government is smart enough to tax immigrants even when they are not legal, at the same time immigrants get a fractions of the benefits a US Citizen would get for paying the same taxes. Outsourcing is a huge issue this days in the US, American companies have realzied that there are people in other countries willing to be paid less than someone in the US so they take their bussiness out of the countrie, i think that if the hispanic minorities were given the chance to get a higher education, a new working force and new markets can be re established and therefor helping the outsoucing problem in the US.

What you have just read is not an attempt to make you feel bad for immigrants, in the contrary it was meant to teach you and to give you a little more of and idea of what goes on inside and immigrants head when they venture to leave everything behind them to start all over again. I hope it also will encourage people into taking some action to facilitate and increase the little help that is given to hispanic students seeking higher education.

thank you for you time

have a nice day

Jeffrey Huerta said at October 24, 2004 11:27 PM:

I know what it feels to be an Immigrant, because frankly, I am one. I am seventeen years of age and coming from Mexico almost nine years ago and trying to survive in a coutry of freedom, well has just turned into a very hard task to accomplish. I am a senior in highschool and as all my friends around are getting scared because of college decisions and whats the best college for them to attend I sit in class just wondering how my day at work is going to go. I work under a different name because like it has been mention above, I still have the hope that some day Congress will pass some lejislation allowing me the chance to attend college. I drive and I don't have a license, I don't go to sleep without thinking or worrying about getting stopped by a cop the morning after as I get to school where I park in the Student parking lot where you require a parking pertmit, i don't have a permit so I am at risk of getting my car towed. I have Advanced placement classes and I am one of the highest and very harding students of my classes. yet every night before I go to bed I think that at the end it doesn't even matter, all my efforts go to waste because I will probably end up cleaning toilets or cutting grass, all jobs that the AVERAGE American is not willing to do. Where I live we don't strive to get better... we strive to survive and get food on our table and as time goes on, it only tends to get worse by the minute. Our worries aren't are we going to make our next payment to our new 2005 turck, because we just can't afford it; our standard of living is seriously lower than most poor American Citizens. Its just a reality, so next time you see someone who is cleaning toilets or cutting your grass, think twice... they are not doing that because they want to, its because they can't do anything else. We can't hold Management posts, who knows next time you go to your next fastfood restaurant I might be the one flipping your burger and you don't even know it

Dulce Cortina said at November 10, 2004 6:06 PM:

My name is Dulce and I am 18yrs. old. I was born in Mexico and I am an illegal resident I have lived in the United States for more than 12yrs. Going through high school my senior was so depressing. Everyday I went to school feeling that everything I did was worthless, that it didn't matter how much I gave to my community or how much effort I put into my courses I was not going to get anywhere. All my friends where all anxious about going to college, they talked and discussed it everyday and it just made me feel terrible thinking that I didn't have the slighest oppurtunity of going on with them. When they would ask me that to what university I was going to go to, I would tell them that to the same one they where going to go to and that we were going to start new memories together just like we had done in high school. I just graduated from High school and I did alot of investigation of how to get into college and I did. I am currently enrolled in the University of Texas Pan-American were I pay in-sate-tuition, but I can't continue to attend school next semester because I am not financially capable of continuing to pay my tuition. I don't understand what is wrong with illegal resident to be able to pay in sate tuition and receive financial aid as well. Why are some people worried about letting us get our education. Are you all afraid that we will take over your country and be on top of you all? Because I frankly don't understand, the United States is such a wonderful coutry and I am grateful for being here. I think that what makes America great is that everywhere you turn you see a different face from a different place. America is like a beatiful big puzzle that is never completed, because new pieces are introduced everyday, so why not let us illegal immigrants become part of that huge puzzle that never stops growing. I felt like the luckiest person in the world when I got accepted into college, but now that I know that I can't continue going to college because of my financial need I still won't give up because like I have heard somewhere before, "If there is a will there is a way" I know that one day we illegal residents that are making an effort to continue or education will get the oppurtinity to contribute to America like any other u.s. citizen and maybe even better than some.
Thank you for your time!

highschoolstudent said at November 14, 2004 10:30 PM:

The governemnt is more than happy to take the tax money from illegal aliens. Why are they so hesitant to give back some kind of support?

Dream said at November 26, 2004 10:30 PM:

I am one of 65000 illegal immigrant who graduates high school each year. I have so much respect to all the immigrants who had overcome all the odds and trying to make their life better. I used to feel very angry that I couldn't go to college because I felt I was so deserved to go college; From learning the language,having good grades,to survive.Plus I never broke any laws except that I am illegal. We can contribute so much to this country if all the American citizens allows us. Right now all I am trying to do is to go college. I know the illegal residents in California and the few other states can go to college, but what about the residents in different state? Like Indiana? Anybody please give me an advice on which college in which state I could go to college and get educated. big_acms@yahoo.com

Angelica said at December 18, 2004 8:42 AM:

Can you tell me where I could go to college as an illegal immigrant?

Laura said at January 6, 2005 6:10 PM:

Hello.I am illegal alien. I want to get into university, but I have no information how. Can someone provide me with more information. Thank you.

Johanna said at January 9, 2005 2:53 PM:

Hi. Im a junior in high school, and I came to the united states 3 years ago. My parents brought me and my sisters fromm Argentina, now im thinking of going to college but i know that i need to have a social security, that means i cant go, im illegal and i really want to go to college, so please if anybody knows if we can do something to get into college please let me know. Thank you.

Randall Parker said at January 9, 2005 3:49 PM:

Illegals who are in the US who want to go to college should go back to your own country and attend college there.

Elizabeth said at February 1, 2005 4:28 PM:

To those people on this web site who is against Illegal Students going to college i think you people need to learn what life really is, not because you are Citizen of America makes you a perfect human being, i know for a fact that most american citizen don't achieve twice as much what an illegal immigrant would.I'm a illegal immigrant,and i;m very proud of my country where i was born. What am i doing here? i am here to study like most illegal student, to make my life better, i don't want to take away any citizen rights, all what i need is better education, and as some one say in the comments why don't illegal students go back to their country and go to college, Sadly to say most of country we born in don't have eduaction system like America or if it did most of us won't be here, secondly i must say America is bless country, and as the old saying goes what god bless no man can curse, so you people who against illegal people, why don't u people try to be a bit nicer atleast that would help a little than insulting people who have no voice against you cause you are a American Citzen, its a shame to know this beautiful land has human being like yah all, god is the man, we all goin to die one day, we not going take anyting with us when we die,only memories will left behind so why don't yah'll perfect american citizen try and do some good. and to the illegal people out there, don't worry about what they say,we are here for a reson, not take no one rights away, and if we did what can we do about it sadly god created the world like that. citizens like it or not.

Daisy said at February 8, 2005 4:33 PM:

These is for all the people that want to go to college/univesity and are illegal in the US. The following states do have a law that allow illegal aliens to go to college/university will pay charge you the regular tuition, these states are California, Texas, New York, Utah, Illinois, Washinton, Oklahoma, and Kansas. I leave in CA and the law here is the AB 540, this law allows you to continue your education like a regular student. Now where can you find the money to pay, well there are hundreds of scholarships that are only for illegal students, all you have to do is apply for them. The scholarship money is free meaning that you never have to pay it back. If you leave outside these states, then you can relocate to one of the states mention above, get back to school for three more years to get a GED and then apply under the AB540 law. To find scholarships for illegal students do a search under "scholarships for all students regardless of immigration status," you will see all the applications and deadlines. As an illegal student you entitle to Federal or State financial aid, but do not let that stop you, apply to as many scholarship as possible to pay for college or you can get a job that pays in cash to save the money to pay for college.

I know this is a long process, but is the only chance you have, so hurry up get informed or relocate and go get your future. Pass this information along to all your friends and lets get educated. We are the future of this country and we are here to stay, so lets get educated to have a great future.

I did it, I am a mechanical engineer with a master in fluid dynamics, and I'm going for my PhD. If I did it you can do it too. Good Luck and remember "It only gets better"

Daisy

Ida said at February 8, 2005 5:53 PM:

I have lived in the United States for over 13-years now and I consider myself a US citizen eventhough I am undocumented.This is the only country that I know,and their telling my I can't get financial help because I am not a citizen. My parents pay taxes and obey the laws. Now can someone explain to me whats wrong with me getting a college education?

miguel hernandez said at February 18, 2005 12:04 PM:

going to college everyones dream not my illegal
immigrant 18 years old. many people say that we should'nt have the same opportunity to go to college because we here illegaly .
but i think for the same reason we work harder than other people because we may not have the paper to be here legaly but we try and try and never stop trying .because like I said before we will work for it into we make it
martin luter king once had a dream an we make it happen he gave his life for it to be equal i not asking to be equal but im asking to try us we will work for it in to we make it
there is a little saying winer dont quit quiters dont win.

christian said at March 4, 2005 12:15 PM:

Well it seems we have many problems in here.Well i just want to start by saying that there are many illegal students that are better than those who born in this country. We are the leaders of our schools, we are the ones working hard for everything, but the "Americans" that have everything right there don't even realize all the oportunities that they have to succeed. And yet they said that we take their opportunities. If we want to be better people i think it's not a sin, if we want to be succeesful it's not a sin either, the sin is to be as stupid and ignorants like Mr. Parker who i believed it's not real American because i know that in his past there were some relatives that as us came to this country looking for opportunities. Hopefully one day all these racist people are going to be in the same place that we are, and that's when you are going to pay.......

Juan said at March 17, 2005 11:44 PM:

I just want to say that I'm proud of you guys because you all are brave to speak up, that's a lot of courage. I was just finding information abour immigrants and I found these comments by teenagers like me. If i had the courage to do these i would be upon the news, but I'm scare, scare of being reported because my dream is in this country. I live here since I was 8. I'm now 13 and I attend to Sumner Academy, a school where you have to pass the Math Assesment to be able to attend. I'm a sophomore and I'm already taking advanced classes. There are classes called IBH or IBS, which means classes that are harder and do you twice the work as a regular class. Its hard but I have faith that one day I'll go to College and have a better life not just for me, but for America too. I'm concerned that Immigrants is why America is the best country, because if immigrants wasn't a word America will be in the low. Anyways I'm going to be a junior and i want information about colleges and thanks to Daisy I now know that Kansas offers Immigrants to attend college, which i live in Kansas. I'm working hard on my classes if you want to can take a look at my junior's schedule.
IBH English III - for my english can get better
IBH Visual Arts- My passion is drawing (well that's one of them)
Sculpture B- again a passion
American Gov.- learn more about The U.S goverment
IBH- Spanish- so i wont forget my spanish
Chemistry- have to take it and i like chemistry
IBS ECONS- learn hoe to mistrate my money
IBH Calc.- can you believe it. A jUnior taking calc. in high school. most students take it on college. WOOOW.
Well Thanks for reading my story and the only advise i would give away is "take other people's point of view for better ideas and results"

Juan said at March 17, 2005 11:46 PM:

Sorry my age is not 13 is was a typing error. it's suppose to be a 16. sorry

don juan said at April 9, 2005 9:33 PM:

Everyone on this board is forgetting one thing, the word illegal in the phrase "illegal aliens." It is a crime to be in this country without the proper documentation, just like it is in every other country around the world. I know that if I go to Mexico, they sure as hell wouldn't let me pay the same tuition cost as a resident of Mexico(http://www.msnbc.com). Further more and what get me is that if an illegal alien requires medical attention, they get it cheaper and sometimes for free while the rest of us who are here legally have to pay full freight (http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml). Not only that but the number of auto accidents cause by uninsured illegal aliens is costing the state of California alone a fortune(http://www.cnn.com). The best way I can put it is, if someone breaks into your home, you dont feed them, pay their medical cost, or give them the keys to your car, you call the police,. This isn't only Mexicans, Germans, Britains, and other people shouldn't be here without proper documentation, if you want to become a citizen and are so concerned about this country, then do it legally.

Apollyon said at April 10, 2005 9:14 PM:

Hey y'all. Since freshman year, I realized that my education days were counted. However, I made it. It is not hard for those who are willing to risk it. Since I made it this far, I am planning to be a Classics major (w00t for Greek and Latin) and become a college professor. Anyways, for those who want to go to college, it is possible.

Yahoo ID: juancramirez15
AIM: juancramirez186

FoodforThought said at April 29, 2005 12:44 AM:

First I'd like to state that I support any person's strive to higher education. I'd also like to state that I'm not "against" anyone in perticular, rather it's the situation I have a problem with.

As far as the "You're all immigrants too" post I'd like to say that yes, we are a nation of immigrants, most of who entered the United States LEGALLY.

The issue here is legality. Stop for a moment and look back over the posts. I understand that several of you are illegal aliens in the United States who feel very strongly about the situation, however remember that despite your feelings and emotions you are here illegally. Now this doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to go to college, but rather it means that you shouldn't recieve benefits that people who enter the United States legally, or official United States citizens recieve.

Students who immigrate to the United States legally for college educations (they get Student visas and go through the whole immigration process) do not recieve in-state tuition, nor do they recieve much financial aid.

Many of my friends are immigrants. I live in Hawaii and several of my friends are not US Citizens, but they and their parents have gone through all of the paperwork to enter the country and are trying to become citizens.

Now, why should people who have broken the law to enter the country get these benefits, while many students enter the US and don't recieve these benefits, and my friends who are legal immegrants had to go through the whole process to get these benefits.


Also, while the majority of illegal aliens to pay some form of taxes, nearly half don't. They recieve their pay in cash or live off of welfare, which sucks money from the government. Yes, illegal immigrants are very useful to our economy. Captialists love them because they can pay them almost nothing. Now as far as illegal immigrants doing the jobs average americans won't do? That's not true. The difference is Illegal immigrants will do the jobs americans don't want to do for a lower wage.

The federal finanical aid and drop in-state tuition means that illegal immigrants are utilizing tax dollars paid for by citizens for citizens. Regardless of whether or not you pay taxes, tax money is for the government to use. A legitimate government caters to its citizens first, which means things like rembursments go to its citizens not to illegal citizens, who as far as the government is concenred have no legal identity and therefore don't really exist to recieve that money.

Another issue is that we should not be encouraging more people to break the law and illegally immigrate to the US. If the US decided to strengthen its borders and restrict the continuing flood of illegal immigrants to the US I would support many of these laws because most of them require that you eventually become a citizen to recieve the benefits. This would solve the problem of the number of illegals currently in the country because they would slowly be made official after havn't been here for a certain period of time and the strenghtened borders would make sure that we kept continuing numbers controlled.

Just some things to think about...

Juan said at April 30, 2005 3:46 PM:

Hey, Foodfor Thought
First of all some illegal immigrants do the job americans don't want to do because they're lazy. And immigrants should go to college because that way is a benefit to this country, they ain't going to hurt it. Otherwise the hobos around the U.S. they're hobos for a reason but those who didn't go to college is cuz they are lazy. See the world is full of dreams ecerybody has a dream. And we pay taxes. But immigrants who want to go to college have to pay out of stat tuition. Do you know how much is that. ANYWAYS immigrants who do jobs that americans don't want to do, they do it for money, for a better life. And i'm an immigrant and i'm going to college no matter what. and i'm going to help the U.S. and other countries as well. for a better world. WHy becasue i have faith. Think about how many people died just to get to this country.

These are things to think about.....


Randall Parker said at April 30, 2005 4:15 PM:

Juan,

There are still very large parts of the United Statse where there are few illegals and yet trash gets collected, houses get built, restaurants have dishwashers and other low status jobs get done. So tell me how it is there is work that Americans won't do. This is a false claim repeatedly made by the Open Borders crowd. It is untrue.

FoodforThought said at April 30, 2005 7:31 PM:

Yes, Americans are damn lazy. We are. It's a fact. Because of this there are many jobs we see that we won't touch unless we feel we're getting fair wage for. That doesn't mean we WON'T do it. It's just that illegal immigrants tend to be willing to do them at a lower wage because they have no choice.

Juan, you're saying that illegal aliens should go to college because it will benifit America, however how will it benefit America. You'll go to college so you can get a job? What good is that job? It is illegal for illegal aliens to work in the United States.

There's a reason there's Out of State Tuition costs, because Out of State tuition is for individuals who are not citizens of the state they're going to be going to college in. Look, I'm a graduating High school senior who's going to be going to college out of state. I know what the costs are. Are you a citizen of the state you're living in? No, you're not a citizen or even a registered national of that state, so you should not be recieving the in-state tuition benifit beloning to those citizens. That's the law. That's the way things work for everyone, myself included.

I'm not saying that you should stop dreaming, and I don't mean for this to be an attack on any one perticular person or group. What I'm looking at is the situation. The situation is that you're here illegally. Maybe you're one of the few who do pay taxes, but how you manage to pay taxes boggles my mind since legally you don't exist in the United States.

By the way, when you say you pay taxes, what do you mean by that? Are you talking about State Income Taxes or are you talking about sales tax? (I'm wondering because I've heard people talk about both when they use the taxes argument).

Juan, stop for a moment and use some of your own advise. "Take other points of view" just for a moment and look at the other side for a moment. I understand where you're coming from. I support your dreams of college and of achieving success, but I have to stand my ground somewhere.

John said at May 2, 2005 5:30 PM:

hey i struggle with the same issue you know. im glad many people gave commments and encouragements, it helped alot. It's truly hard for undocumented immigrants. we work harder and lot of times smarter than some americans that just smoke pot and slacks off. if we have a chance to be legal we would love to be... even if that means serving in army or wutever.
however, we were born illegal... our parents had to come here illegally, coming to america legally when you are poor is very hard. they dont accept poor people into america because that wouldn't help them. That's why illegal immigrants are poor and helpless.
If there's chance for us to be legal we'd help the economy by being skilled workers and being part of the work force. However, right now all we can do is barely go to college. Yes, we do pay tax.... and yes, we get nothing back...
you say we "steal" money from goverment, why not give us social security or green card so we can stay here and contribute to the country?

Jessica said at May 3, 2005 11:59 AM:

Hello,

I would like to point out a few things. I don't believe that the real issue with illegal immigrants is that they don't have a right to be here legally or that they can't come here ever, but that hard-working American citizens shouldn't have to pay for them to be here. Most undocumented illegals do not pay taxes, but expect to receive benefits. Our country loses $200 million dollars a year reimbursing border hospitals that provide emergency care to illegals. $74 million of that is from Texas. Some illegals get a 3-day pass to come here and get medical care and then leave because they don't qualify in Mexico. The ones that do pay taxes provide fraudulent documentation and then expect our government to pay unemployment, social security, and insurer's to pay worker's comp. It is also highly irritating to me when illegals come here and spend the majority of their lives here and never bother to learn our language. Then we as American's are expected to accommodate them and provide Spanish speaking services everywhere so they can continue to not learn English. But yet they want inclusion in our school systems and college aide from the government. I would furthermore like to point out the grammatical and spelling errors in the postings by most of the immigrant advocates/illegals on this page. It's getting out of control and it needs to be contained. I don't qualify for government aide either because my parents make too much money, but they also aren't paying for my tuition. I surely don't think an illegal should qualify over me for college benefits. I also shouldn't have to pay taxes, when most illegals don't, so that they can receive benefits. Money spent on illegals is also money taken away from legitimate citizens and immigrants education funding. And considering our education systems are rapidly becoming a disgrace to everything our country stands for, we need all the funding we can get. Yes our country is originally a population of immigrants, pilgrims, settlers, English, Irish, German, protestants, Catholics, etc., but times are different. The Mexicans/ (other illegals) have to let go of the concept that they are still endowed a right to be in this country because this is the present. And presently, they are more than willing to take advantage of our ridiculous laws that allow them some rights, but not accept the fact that they are not here legally. Which is more hypocricy than they probably even understand. And I would like to furthermore thank the Mexican immigrants for bringing tuberculosis to this countries people. Our government is also willing to give visas to intelligent and successful immigrants to come here and promote our economy. Let's face it, our government loves to recruit people from other countries who have received and paid for their education somewhere else, and who are willing to work for them. It's a major asset and industry. Getting to the point, American people need to stop providing jobs for illegals and allowing themselves to be put in a compromised position where they become liable for them. Until the American people stop tolerating and providing for illegals as a whole, they will not stop invading our territory. And until our legislative body forces Americans and themselves to be accountable for the problem, it will not cease and all we will do is continue to complain about the injustice and imposition that illegals create. Thanks.

Victor Lopez said at May 10, 2005 4:43 PM:

To Jessica,

I sincerly beleive that you are making your irating speculations on information from malfunctioning arial minds. Some of you people that have been spoiled by the "dominating" egosentric white society that is now the Uited States don´t and will never know what it is like to live in underprivilaged immigrant families is like. I am another immigrant student that did not decide to come to the U.S.A., but am greatly thankful for it, for my education has not been paid by YOUR taxes, but instead paid by my immigrant parents and other like them , how...they did this by working hard, perhaps not legally, but all the money taken from them by the government and not returned every year in an income tax return. In my school district, the parents pay approximately $1,000 every year in school taxes, there are approximetly 50,000 students, if not more, in our school district, make the math Ms. Perfect, the money taken from us is approximately $50,000,000/year. Take in mind that about 20% of the students are of illigal immigrant parents. So don´t come telling me the exagerated entities portrayed by your so perfect government.

Thanks for reading,
Victor Eduardo Lopez(100% Mexicano)

p.s You probably used spell check!!!!!!!!!!;)

Fred Smith said at May 11, 2005 7:49 AM:

Victor,
Perhaps you should learn how to use spell check before you send something out. I count AT LEAST 6 words that are spelled incorrectly.

Bottom line is, if you have so many complaints about being here...go home!

Karina Arteaga said at May 11, 2005 1:21 PM:

It is people like Jesica that perpetuate the stereotype on illegal immigrants!!!I too am an American citizen, I don't cry about the assistance that is being provided to those who need it. Grow up girly, there are more serious problems that will affect you directly in the long run.....If you are so concerned about policies and immigrants then take some initiative and become aware of those public officials who are passing those ridiculous laws. They are the ones you should be targeting. What type of action are you taking? Do you boycott the restaurant that hires the illegal immigrants that cook and serve your meals? Do you stop purchasing fruits and vegetables that are picked by immigrant hands? If you are so conerned about American jobs why don't you address outsourcing instead. Every one has a right to progress!!! If these individuals have the knowledge, skills, and perseverance to do so then be it. Who am I to deny them that right.

Francisco Acosta said at May 12, 2005 1:52 PM:

Alot of interesting points made in this discussion. I'm Mexican American. My family that came from Mexico, came to the United States by permission (Visa). I take the position that illegal or undocumented residents should not recieve the benifits of financial aid or lower tuition. Of all the reasons given as to why illegals or undocumented students should recieve these benifits lacks one very important point. I'm yet to see it here in this discussion or any of the others I've seen and that is the illegal or undocumented student putting forth the effort to be naturalized as American. Most say how much they think the US is so great and a wonderful place but that is just lip service if your loyalty is to another country. The laws we have to run our country and every state is subject to is based on the US Constitution. The US Constitution is to protect US citizens rights. Become legal citizens and you get these rights. This will end any arguement and just leave the biggot to make his or her comments. Now go do the right thing!!!

zulma medina said at May 16, 2005 9:08 AM:

well, first of all yeah we as illegal aliens do end up paying taxes. which everyone else receives but us. i have live here for a long time and i never encounter racisim but when i came to high school in my senior year. you see, i wanted to become a nursing assistance, just because i didn't have a social they wanted to pick me out of the class. did it happen no, i was though never to give up on anything you put your mind to. then in another class i was call a criminal fro coming here and wanting a better live. yeah, my mom brought me but is not her fault that i'm here because i'm already 18 and i have not left. because this country gives us so many opportunities that you just have to know when to take them. dispite of those few peoplet that really try to stop you, just say "if you can them do it"
thanks

FoodforThought said at May 17, 2005 6:41 AM:

Taxes, particularly income taxes, are portions of a person's pay that goes to the government instead of themselves. It's used to support government programs. Now I cannot understand how someone who is here illegally, doesn't exist, and may be removed if discovered could possibly be paying taxes. Someone please explain to me how this happens. I can only see it happening is if you're using fake paperwork or the government is even more corrupt than I thought.

Laws require states to let illegal immigrants attend high school even though we pay taxes for it. I totally agree with this. We as citizens should be willing to pay taxes to live in an educated society. Then comes College. College is not a RIGHT it's a PRIVILAGE. While we need an educated society we do not need a completely college educated society. Now, since College is a privilage, being paid for by our citizens, I think we should grant that privilage (I'm talking about in-state tuition and financial aid now) to LEGAL citizens.

Furthermore, regardless of your work ethic or struggle you are ILLEGAL. I have no problem with you going to college, but I do have a problem with you getting benefits that should be going to LEGAL citizens.

Now the issue of not having a choice to come to America. I don't think any illegal immigrant children would say they wish their parents hadn't brought them here. Illegal immigrants bring their families to the US to find better lives - they broke the law for your betterment, so you can blame them for bringing you here but when you're glad you're here and since they did it for you, how can you honestly say that it's their fault and not take some of the responsibility yourself. Also, the whole, people should not suffer for the decisions of their parents is STUPID. In the real world everyone must deal with their parent's choices. If a father gambles away his family's earnings his children must suffer the consequences as well. His children can find a way out of the mistake, but no one will simply offer it to them freely. They need to work at it. So I reccomend working at it, fix the mistake, become a citizen, and then collect your benefits. Then there will be no problems, because you'll be a citizen and like all citizens have rights to those benefits.

You keep talking about the upperclass who never suffered the toils of the underprivilaged illegal immigrants. I have many friends who are legal immigrants going through the same thing you're going now even though they're here legally. I personally think that they're harder working than you folks because they went though the effort to become a citizen first and are still going through much of what you're going through now. A friend of mine's father, a doctor, told me that his parents worked doing laundry, as did their parents who had immigrated to the United States legally. They went though all the same hard work plus the additional step. He struggled to make ends meet and become a doctor. He grew up much like all of you illegal immigrants do and his opinion of the matter - a definate "no" to financial aid benefits and in-state tuition for illegal immigrants. His reasoned that by granting illegal immigrants these benefits we mock our ancestors who struggled while going through all the legal steps. These are the thoughts of not the upper and middle class. These are the thoughts of immigrants and the recent decendants of immigrants who have sturggled just like all of you have.

I know that nothing I say here will change any of your minds. I understand why you feel the way you do, since it affects you directly. I encourage your perserverance. I encourage your bravery. I empathise with your struggles and hardship. I know you are human beings. I just hope that you will stop and see the arguments I have stated and understand my point of view and why I say it before you go ahead and push what you believe. It's important to understand others before making decisions base purely on emotion. No man should be a slave to their own emotions, but rather if to be a slave, be a slave to reason. -Now I havn't completely followed through with my own words. I realize, I have quite a bit of emotion backed into my arguments, but at least consider them, understand them, and be reasonable about them.

Karina:
First I would like to add that the Declaration of Universal Human Rights (the general model for what rights are deserved to all people) does state that the right to move freely between countries should be a right all people have. However, there's a slight catch to this. The Declaration also states that no Human Right should ever impede on the human rights of another. In other words illegal immigrants coming across the border and not taking anything away from the citizens of the US = OK. Immigrants coming across the border and taking federal money in financial aid away from citizens of the US = NOT OK, according to the the genrally accepted principle of Human Rights. So, I say all of us have the right to deny them that right if they are impedeing upon our own rights by doing so.

Now, let's take an entirely different approach on the matter.
I agree we should take it to the politicians and the corrupt government who are tempting these individuals to break the law by passing legislation like this. Most of this Pro-illegal immigrant legislation is intened to increase immigration because big business relies on illegal workers to run our economy. One could say that in the long run this legislation will be damaging to illegal immigrants and their children because it makes promises the government knows it cannot keep, but will lure hopeful people into the country and let big business take advantage of them to elevate our economy. One could argue that this legislation will - although it looks pretty - lead to exactly the opposite of what it promises. Now I'd have to collect more information on this before making this a founded argument, but it is something interesting to think about.


Sorry, I have several different thoughts going on at once. I probably should have stuck to only a few, and that last one was just me going way off. I would reccomend going over it, considering it, and then ignoring it altogether because it makes several very farfetched assumptions.

alex said at May 19, 2005 10:11 AM:

this is fascinating, i never post messages or respond to things like this but this issue is really driving wedges all over the nation. with all the waste in spending in our country's federal budget, in terms of priorities, having illigal immigrants attend college at their own expense strikes me as the least of threats to our nation's economy. what people seem to forget is that mexicans comprise 40 percent of the illegal population. while this is not the majority overall, they are the majority in that 4 out of 10 illigals are mexican versus the other 60 percent being comprised of chinese, polish, then other eastern europeans(quickly rising)...obviously no other country's population consists of a representation of EVERY other country's citizenry. this is a strictly american distinction... and here in lies the dilemma...along the way in history the latest newcomer gets dumped on until someone else becomes the scapegoeat for all that troubles us about the "foreigner situation". as for the status of legal, how convenient to say that the immigrants of yesteryear came "legally"...thats partially true in that it was only in the last 50-60 years did the process become refined to the point of having to alot percentages of who we'd take, from where, and how many...the contribution of immigrants, whatever their status is undeniable, whether or not taxes are paid they do have to consume(goods and services) no good business would refuse an entire market of potential buyers...they have to rent, buy gas, pay bills and so on...thats not a depletion of resources thats trade and capitalism. so...do we want to continue to grit and moan over an unchanging reality or...allow them the rights afforded every other group of hard working, well meaning, mostly honest and ambitious , productive members of our society? allowing for means of advancement doesnt have to mean at the expense of others more deserving, but that there has to be a fair oppurtunity as long as the desired outcome is beneficial to american society as a whole...ethnic groups advance in stages and with help through inclusive policy measures...the hope is more education, more oppurtunites created, increased revenue,tax base, employment generated...thats how the pie grows without having to haggle over the crust and the crumbs...THEN THERES PROVIDENCE,GOD IS MERCIFUL AND PROVIDES FOR AMERICA because it still is the most just,fair and free nation on the planet.

zulma medina said at June 4, 2005 11:35 PM:

wel,
first of all those parents that do bring there kids to the us when they are small. they are not stupid, they are actually thinking towards those little kids future. and to all those people that talk about an illegal resident to become legal, instead of talking all that trash, just say how you think an illegal resident becomes a legal one. there are no chances in this country for that an i say it from experience,

when illegal pay taxes, regardless of if they are using fake papers, they pay taxes. so of those illegal work at places where they get pay enough money to be charge from the government, but somehow they don't make enough to get a return of all those extra taxes they are paying.

sometimes we as illegals have to go to express to keep our families alive and healty, and if that means working with fake papers or with out papers then we do it.

TO ALL THOSE THAT ARE ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES DON'T EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY UNTIL YOU TRY. THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY EVEN IF IT MEANS GOING TO EXPRIMES. THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY THAT LEGAL PEOPLE DON'T USE AND IT'S JUST GOING TO WASTE, IF THEY DON'T WANTED THEN PASS IT DOWN TO US WE WILL HAVE WAYS TO USE IT. WE ALSO WHANT TO BETTER OUR SELFS AND IF WE WHAT TO GO COLLEGE WE ARE GOING TO GO REGARLESS OF THOSE PEOPLE YOU OPPOSE IT. BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THERE SHOULD BE NO SEGREGATION, OR DISCRIMINATION BASES OF RACE, WHICH WE COULD SAY BASED ON LEGAL STATUS.

THERE IS FINANCIAL AID FOR ILLEGALS
CHECK OUT
MALDEF.COM
SEARCH IT IN GOOGLE.COM

barbie jimenez said at June 10, 2005 9:09 PM:

dear people,
hi!i am also an immigrant that has come to this country illegaly . i am know a sophmore that is know looking forward to go to college. i am also working my ass off of being an A and B student ; working to earn money to pay my tuition ,if i am accepted to go to college and make my dream come true to be a somebody . i want to be the first person in my low life family to actually do something with my life not go and get pregnant with U.S. born babies and not work and expect to get stamps to live. that is not me i want to earn my respect to be here.i have been wanting to go to the army since i was 11 years old , i want to serve this country and pay back for the the good things it has done for me and my family.and all that stuff about that we should too get financial money to go to college that is just bull crap because we are berley getting the benefit to actually go to college here.dont get me wrong i am very proud to be a mexican from chihuahua, mexico.i would gladly join the army over there legally but i just dont know enything from my country i dont know the history, i dont know what is happening over there. all i know is the language.i am not very proud about that ;i know only what my stepdad has told me about pancho villa and how he defended the president of mexico in his curiour in the army of mexico. what can i say i started school here since the 2nd grade and i expect to finish school here . most of us are not taking advantage of this country or even you we just want to be a somebody.
thank you for your time,

love always,
barbie jimenez

Kaminoko said at July 13, 2005 9:16 PM:

Hi everybody, that's not my real name it's a japanese phrase that means "God's child". I'm actually a Trinidadian.

My parents brought me into the US when i was 3 years old legally on a visitors visa. Well, my father did. He's a legal resident. My mother was already waiting for us to come into the country, she was very uneducated. You see, she had a strange learning difficulty do to child abuse and stress so she was pulled out of school eventhough she started out as a genuine genius. Now she's reduced to an illiterrate woman, which will explain what happened next... She didn't know that she needed a social security number and so didn't bother to apply eventhough she also came into the country legally. She made an honest ignorant mistake, that even now i can't fathom.

When i arrived she unfortuneately made the same mistake TWICE!, my father also--which puzzles me because he's quite an einstine. 1. SHE DIDN'T GET ME A SSN 2.WHEN I WAS 7 I WAS SUPPOSED TO GO BACK HOME FOR 3 MONTHS TO RECIEVE MY AMERICAN RESIDENCY, SHE SAID "NO" AND THAT SHE WOULD RATHER WAIT FOR MY DEAD BEAT FATHER.

Moving on...I remained in the country legally until i turned the age of 13 14, and i found this out through digging through immigration forms and papers out of curiosity. Well, when i was 10 years old my father married my mother and applied for her only to recieve legal documentation, so when she got her residency i would get mine automatically (how stupid). It took forever because he stopped working and indulged in his gambling addiction while she worked off the books in many dry cleaners as a seamstress. She even saved up to help him buy a car so that we didn't have to take the bus. All in all, she devoted her efforts for making life in America good for my father.

Well, when i was thirteen, he decided to abandon us and left us hanging on the end of a thread, in rend debt and my mother was begging for money from the family, depressed and looking for any type of work. I begged my parents to let me work, but they kept saying "no" and it didn't hit me why they said that until i turned 16 and found out what the situation really was.

Unfortuneately it made me stressed because my life was ruined and i saw my "comfort" days in highschool as numbered. Well, when i saw all my American (excellent students and athletes by the way...) going to college, i came down with depression and i really messed myself up because i saw that all my good grades, community service and school activities were for nothing and i ended up being quite suicidal...My school had me see the school psychiatrist often due to an unfortuneate event, which i did, that helped alot.

My mother being quite concerned about my condition, scraped up a ton of money to find an immigration lawyer and filed abandonment, according to her lawyer's advice...which didn't work because of insufficient documentation ie...she didn't know to file child support, also our lawyer lied to us and he didn't tell us any information plus sat on our documents...after many phonecalls, we found out that we were denied. And the original case that my father opened for us was closed, so now it's as if we came here undocumented. It was one of the lowest points i ever hit in my life...

(she got alot of money from friends doing favors and the church helped us with our bills and food so Thankyou God that we lived comfortably and were never hungry...you rock).

Well i'm 20 now and i've been looking for ways to become legal...i found out that i could through employment somehow (too much to type). and i've tried really hard but noone was willing to take a chance on me. so my family uses me to babysit and do favors (they're legal) and since they saw i have no future, that's all i'm good for. they tell me to get married but i just can't drive myself to be decietful...it's not in my nature, and i've always done my best to respect the law. Not to mention the fact that i'm a lesbian and that i have issues with men touching me due to my ugly past (not to mention that God would me even more pissed off at me than he is now).

Fortuneately, the angels are on my mother's side because my sister's becoming a citizen and she's filing for my mother and so it's just a matter of a few more months for her, as for me the ending's not so pretty, i'm gonna age out so i'm on my own. (wish me luck...hehehe) Alot of times i think of just giving up and going back to my original country because at least im legal somewhere, but my family and other americans advise me not to (including law officials...how ironic, they must like me...hehehe) because they told me that i would cry alot more than i do now for it.

My mother was fortuneate to find a job that pays alot and i help her do it on the weekends and some weekdays on occasion taking care of an hiv patient on dialysis at his home. She lets me help because she knows i hate free money and it helps me feel alittle bit better about myself doing a job that helps someone and that i can take care of myself to some extent (pathetic isn't it?).

So nowadays i wake up everyday thinking of why i wake up in the first place ie...food, books, small things that i enjoy in life. So it's not that bad at least in the moment. I hope that one day i might get lucky.

oh well, that's just to show you guys that there are illegals who respect the law and the system, but the system's failed us. and if you feel like i want someone to feel sorry for me, think again...don't send that criticism, i admit that it's pathetic already. oh well, i don't care anymore.

to you illegals that work hard to be legal in this country despite all that opposition, good luck and that i admire your perseverance.

i've never come to know such courage, maybe one day i'll wake up.


till then, happy hunting

Hortencia Montano said at July 25, 2005 7:32 PM:

I feel really sad because every time I have to do any type of school enrollment. I been humilliated in front of many people because of my status in the USA. I didn't asked to be here my mother brought me when I was I child. I really want to finish school and be somebody. Unfortunately its really hard since I happen to be an immigrant in this country.

me_not_u said at August 10, 2005 12:13 AM:

hey how did you get my name..... uriel romero??????????????????????????

victoria said at August 16, 2005 10:00 AM:

hey everyone, i have read everybody's coments and i would like to do the same, let go this pain that remains in my heart everytime i remember i'm illegal too. i want to ask all of those who believe undocumented immigrants should go back to their countries if they want to become professionals, if they have tought what this country will be without us, who is gonna clean your houses, take care of your kids, cut your grass or clean your pools, build your house, deliver your pizza at friday night, cook your burger at bk or mc'd, clean your vehicle at the car wash, have you thought about that, have you ask yourself who keeps your children schools clean, who picks up the vegetables you eat or drop the news paper you read?, dont you think that this country runs better with us latin americans, the biggest minority in the US, so if we work hard to live better and make your lifes better and easier why we cannot go to school, because we dont have legal residence?, when we still pay taxes with our W-7, when the SS deparment makes billions a year after illegals report taxes with fake social securities and we never get that money back, where do you think that money goes? probably to the welfare you citizens use when you dont feel like working and or suffer for a medical condition and need help, how much money do you think the goverment would loose if we leave, bussines would have to close, schools will get close too because there is not enough kids of illegal residents to attend them, how many hospitals with get lower incomes because there is not an illegal person to pay for their services, i do know there is many states that dont have a massive population of immigrants, and they ones that do the "dirty jobs" arent illegal aliens, but if we leave are they gonna go to texas, new york, florida, new jersey, california and others states to do what we used to do, i dont think so, why?, because there is not that manyof you doing that, and then everybody is gonna realize how important where we, and not because we save your life or something like that, but because your lifes where more comfortables having us around. so if we have to get the shitty jobs because nobody wants to do them, and hey we dont care how disgusting it could be because we got mouths to feed and bills to pay, why we cannot succeed here too, if where the same as you "americans", if we have the same types of lifes but we more issues, if we are as smarts as you, hard workers as you, why we cannot get that good job that you have if we got the same skills?, because we dont carry around a legal SS, please stop putting people down because of their status, at god eyes we are all the same, and we all deserve a chance to become a better person. it's not our fault that our countries goverments are really bad, that doctors nowadays drive taxicabs, that teachers get paid bad, that engineers have to become cops because they get pay better, so i dont think is fear for anybody to bust your a** studying and getting your diploma if you are going to end up doing what you didnt wanted to do in your future when you decide to go to school, is not my fault the presidencies of my country in the passed years havent been good, and yours either, but i do deserve a chance like you do when you want to become somebody, regardless if i was born here or there.

Mirian said at August 19, 2005 7:55 PM:

I graduate from high school and I really want to go to college. If there somebody that can help me to find information or financial aid. We are humas and we have the right to have a better future.

Boss Hogg said at August 20, 2005 12:55 AM:

I need help getting my undocumented ESL students into college in Virginia.
These are bright kids with a bright future that is temporarily obscured by their status.

Is there a way?

Let me know.

Muy muchas gracias!

sara said at August 22, 2005 6:39 PM:

PLEASE READ!!!

I am legal, but my boy friend is not. We both want to go to college. His family has been through the procedures and paper work to recieve proper citizenships to the U.S.(all of which is expensive and can endanger them to being deported if they come out and tell federal persons their sercomstances) My boyfriend has been told that he must attend a junior college to receive aid and assistance to receive citizenship, then, he might (by rules and laws provided by the government) procede on to a University. I fully disagree. I strongly beleive that if his family has proof of tax deduction every year since their arival, that he should be as eligable as be to finacial aid to schooling. If everyone re-reads the perpose to our Founding Fathers' perposal to the reformation of the constition, they will see that America alone, has open arms to imagrants, being that eveyrone who is not Native American has had to earn and strive their ways just like my boyfriend's family and million others. Citizens should not deport illegal imigrants because the only differance between them and illegal citizens is documents. Other then that, most of all the illegal imigrants pay taxes and work illegaly to gain citizenship. Millions of legal Americans don't pay taxes anyways. I think that my boyfriend (with the millions or illegals) and I should share our God givin rights of equality. please give me feed back

thank you for reading

David said at September 16, 2005 11:15 PM:

Man How the heck am I supposed to go back to where I came from? I will stay here as long as possible. I know how.

adruana said at September 25, 2005 1:11 PM:

I have been living here for 14 years. I was born in Mexico but raised in the U.S. I am a senior this year and my dream is to go to college, but because i am not a citizen i cant. I didnt chose to come here so i cant help it if im not legal. My parents present there taxes and follow the laws. Its not fare that i cant go to college and persue my dreams because i can't receive financial aid.

John O'Connor said at September 27, 2005 12:36 PM:

YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK, I WAS BORN HERE IN THE U.S. and so was my father, my mother is from spain. There is no reason to deny the right to work to illegal aliens, My live in maid's temporary visa has expired but she lives here with me I still pay her every week and she puts the money here in an american bank(washington mutual). I Own a restaurant where I have atleast 5 employees whom are not of legal status. They get a paycheck and taxes get taken out of their check my american employees get a tax return my illegals do not (Where does that money go?) And further more when I need work done around the house I go pick up some guatamalans, Why not because they work for less because I dont pay them less infact I pay them more, I have them work because they work harder then any anerican ...., Including myself. The bottom line is infact illegals here who want nothing more then to work, make money, and provide for there familys back home are good people, There not hurting anyone! LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John


P.S. Give them a break on the damn Tuition, Your actually trying to prevent people from educating themselves.....SICK

pete said at October 8, 2005 8:29 AM:

I'm a third generation mexican-american. My father was from louisiana and is white, but I look hispanic. My grandpa and grandma were illegal immigrants but I am an american citizen. I am in a union and have been for around 15 years. The problem I have with illegal immigration is that when I'm on union job sites I am looked at like I am an Illegal Immigrant. I read all the negative hate words from my union brothers toward the mexicans written in the porta-potties. I am proud of my heritage but it does not serve our race well to have illegal immigration demean our proud heritage. I know it is a complicated issue, and there are no simple answers. I want to be proud of my heritage and show the contribution we make to society. Now we are being lowered to a low social rank in society because of this issue. All legal immigrants should be in favor of legal immigration, what ever form that may take. We need to take our place in society as the number one minority group in the country, and rise up to the postion in society that we deserve. I have read statistics and we will be the majority soon and we will need to have educated and respected people in place to take political postitions in government that we need for representation. We are a proud hard working people, but we need to do it legally and create respect once again for "La Raza" and our heritage.

Edie said at October 17, 2005 6:56 AM:

Hey guys, all of you are forgetting that in-state tuition slots are also being sought by American children. College costs are so high, that the only way a lot of American kids can afford to go to college by by paying in-state tuition price. for every slot given to the child of an illegal immigrant, an American child will lose that opportunity to go to college paying in-state tuition price. Until American is ready to spend more money on schools and colleges alike, we need to take care of America's children first. I feel compassion for these kids that were bought here illegally by their parents. As it has been said, it is not their fault. But neither is it the fault of the American child. And the American child will be the one who ultimately pays the price for this.

Edie said at October 17, 2005 6:57 AM:

Hey guys, all of you are forgetting that in-state tuition slots are also being sought by American children. College costs are so high, that the only way a lot of American kids can afford to go to college by by paying in-state tuition price. for every slot given to the child of an illegal immigrant, an American child will lose that opportunity to go to college paying in-state tuition price. Until America is ready to spend more money on schools and colleges alike, we need to take care of America's children first. I feel compassion for these kids that were bought here illegally by their parents. As it has been said, it is not their fault. But neither is it the fault of the American child. And the American child will be the one who ultimately pays the price for this.

Edie said at October 18, 2005 10:47 AM:

Hey kids, for those of you who have relatives who are U.S. citizens, have them sponsor you. Once you receive your citizenship or legal residency, join the U.S. military. You earn your citizenship by joining the military too. I don't know all that involved in it. But do the research. I am sure some of you can be helped this way. The military will not only pay you a salary, you will get to travel and they give you extra money toward college. It would take longer going this route, but it does work. It is what a lot of poor American kids do to help finance their education. And once you get your degree, you can get out of the miliary or go to officer's candidate school. Now don't get me wrong, I am against illegal immigration. I think it is just a form of slavery myself and it does in fact hurt the poor of the country that they migrate too. But I can also understand your desire to make your lives better. That's why I am giving you this information. It may help some of you. Hopefully it does.

Good Luck!

katrina said at October 18, 2005 11:05 PM:

im a instructor at a cosmetology school i have a rop student that graduated from hi school she is graduating from this program. she was brought here by her dad 12 years ago and her father died 10 years ago and has been with her uncle ever since she is such a awesome student she cant get her state license because no s s i # what can she do?

JOSUE said at November 11, 2005 10:47 PM:

Look. Yes, my English is in perfect condition.
Not my primary language, but I can still speak it better than you.
My skin isn't white.
It doesn't need to be.
Yes I'm illegal.
To all you haters out there:
YOU are the minority to ME
I don't need the help of any Corrupt Govt.
Even if i can't get into a college
I will become the definition of SUCCESS.

-By the way if you can't read Spanish you
can't pronounce my name. I laugh at you in advance.
WARNING: MY WORDS aRE NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEaRT

I encourage my fellow hard working sophisticated immigrants. Keep going, Failure is a coward in the face of Persistance. And without obstacles, barriers, a**holes, cynics, and racists, life would be too easy and there would be no pleasure in becoming the best.

And for all you who think you are "American" because you happen to be born in that part of the earth, and that helping immigrated people is taking away money from yourselves, your definition of America is wrong. That's selfish reasoning. So according to you, anyone born outside your mental image of this country's boundaries is a lesser people? Does being a u.s. citizen make you feel superior? Does a paper saying you were born here make you better? I have better uses for trees than your little social security cards, and I won't beg you for one. If everyone in the u.s. were ignorant prospects telling immigrants to get out of "their" land because they're a burden, then F*CK The u.s. you could have it back. In that case the u.s. would not be America, it would be a more dysfuntional region of the world. The more people that think like that the more the u.s. closes in on dropping from their # 1 spot.

Edie said at November 18, 2005 5:59 PM:

Josue, I don't agree with a lot of the insults and mean spirit words that are bieng said on this board. But America has one of the most generous immigration laws in the world. And yes, they need work. Most assuredly. But I think if you look at the immigration laws in Mexico or any other the other countries, you will see that they highly favor the wealthy and the well educated. Like Mexico for instance, if hundreds of thousands of Americans were to show up in Mexico illegally, they would receive no medical care, they would not have the right to protest (if they did they would be immediately deported), and if you do not have money of your own when you get there, good luck in finding a job or anyone who would be willing to hire you. If fact wants highly educated people whose skills they can use for their wealthier, more properous citizens. Common workers would be told to take a hike or just left to starve. As I said our immigration laws are not perfect and neither are our people. But look at the life of an illegal immigrant in your own country that you hail from, whatever that might be. I think after you get all the facts, you will see, the U.S. is not as bad as you think.

JOSUE said at November 21, 2005 8:34 PM:

Hello Eddie. You sound like reasonable person from what your posts say. You defend this country as if you yourself somehow suffered to make it what it is, if you even know what it is. Eddie, are you rich? or are you just another push-over in this country. Huh? are you part of the middle class? Well, that's probably where the majority of U.S. citizens are. That's higher than me and most immigrants who are in the low of the poor class. So you think your life is just great don't you Eddie. I bet you have your own house and your own car along with your family;typical middle-class American. You probably have a spare car and perhaps you even have money to invest in the stock market; or you have other investments in mind such as real estate and so on. The fact that you even came to this forum tells that you are not rich. Some of your words are misspelled, with missing letters, that says you typed this under some kind of pressure. Because I'm sure the education you received was a lot better than mine. You don't have enough time to do what you want. You have a job you are a slave to, and you worry about credit card debt. So where are you in the income scale Eddie? How much do you earn in the range of 40,000 to 100,000? Where are you?
I know you rather be earning more. Its a natural feeling that comes to most Americans. You might say you love your job, but i know you wouldn't work if you didn't get paid, so I don't know why some people lie to themselves that way. By the way what are your opinions on taxes Eddie? I happen to know that taxes are hurting the middle class right now. Tax laws being made to favor the rich (their amount is excessive) will hurt the middle class. Who else are they going to take money from? The Poor that don't have it?

Your quote "But I think if you look at the immigration laws in Mexico or any other the other countries, you will see that they highly favor the wealthy and the well educated." This goes on in this country Eddie, don't pretend it doesn't. Also, by the way, you are comparing the U.S. Government to that of Mexico. Is that what it has comed to? Just by comparing it to a country such as Mexico you imply you need to proove that the U.S. is better. Just imagine what kind of govt. you have, if you need to proove its better than Mexico's.

More of your words: "for every slot given to the child of an illegal immigrant, an American child will lose that opportunity to go to college paying in-state tuition price"...... I can't beilieve you would post something like this and call yourself a man of character. First of all, colleges accept the students who are best qualifed. Colleges are even tougher with the standards of requirements for immigrants. The only "American child" that "gets an opportunity taken by an immigrant" is that one that who is unqualifed (low-life-slacker). You talk as if an "American child" is more important than an immigrant. The culture in America is that outside your country people are less human. They are just like you buddy, you can keep thinking americans are better, but that's in your head.
You also say "Once you receive your citizenship or legal residency, join the U.S. military. You earn your citizenship by joining the military too. I don't know all that involved in it." All I can say for this advice is: would you really give this advice to your own child? Why would you tell children to join the military? In this pathetic system the military does not give a F*** about anyone. They just use you. Most discharged military are either dead or live in misery. The military uses you and then throws you back into society. I know plenty of discharged people who went into the military, and have nothing to show for it. Those years they take from you are precious, and when you're done you find you took steps back not forward. Even military leaders have protested for the conditions and lack of "caring" that the govt. sets up for the military. Please just stop with your comments of you feeling sorry for the American child who will "loose out because an immigrant took his education." I'm sure you meant well, but Eddie, if you really want to help you should become a somebody, because if you don't have power you are a helpless nobody that can't do anything. You sound like your not striving for anything great Eddie, I hope your lack of ambition doesn't lead to an empty life.

Edie said at November 26, 2005 7:29 PM:

Josue, you are obviously filled with a lot of anger. While I can understand this to a certain degree, I still do not appreciate your rudeness. And yes I am middle class, I own my own home and my finances are sound. I am not rich, but neither am I poor. I have raised three children who all went to college and guess what, they all got full scholarships because they have high SAT scores. And you are quite wrong, all colleges have entry standards as part of their qualifications in entering. Any child who gains admission has to meet these standards. So yes, any slot that is given to the child of an illegal immigrant would take a slot from a qualified American child. You may not like hearing this but it is a fact. And nothing has been given to me or mine in this life. Everything has been obtained through hard work. I grew up poor and went to bed hungry at night quite often. I am not white and I did not have anything given to me. It was done with a lot of hard work and sweat. So stop being rude and stop feeling sorry for yourself. If you want to go to college, do it. Don't wait for any handouts as you say. Just do it. And by the way, most Americans are not middle class or rich. I don't know where you get that idea. I read in one of the earlier posts that a lot of immigrants are the ones working in restauraunts, building homes, working in hotels, etc. Well guess what, there are a lot of white, hispanic and black Americans that are working those jobs too. They are called America's poor. Just like you. And why should any of their children's chance at college be denied to give a chance to someone else's child. If you think that is showing a lack of character by saying that America's children should come first, well you are looking at how this does not benefit you. And to me that shows not only a lack of character, but arrogance too. When you marry and have children, you are going to take care of your children first, aren't you. You are not going to take something important away from them and give it to another child just because you feel sorry for that child. No child should suffer to help another child. You can get as angry as you want to and you can be rude and call names just like the other bozos here. But like I said if you want to go to college, find a way and do it. Work you way through college. It will take longer, but it can be done. A lot of people have done just that. America is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than other countries when it comes to immigrants, both legal and illegal. And by the way if I misspelled any words, it is because I am typing fast. Are you trying to impress someone with your intelligence, if so, you have failed.

Jake said at November 26, 2005 9:08 PM:

Eddie you tell: "Josue, you are obviously filled with a lot of anger"
and yet when i read your words I sense anger and regret from YOU.
By the way you also mention "I am not white and nothing was given to me in this life" and as a white person I find that very offensive, and YOU sound like YOU feel very sorry for YOURself.
And if your not white, your an immigrant Eddie, legal or not, You are like those your angry at.

Randall Parker said at November 27, 2005 8:26 AM:

"fearlacker" Jake,

There's nothing about the lack of feeling of anger that is morally superior. Sometimes anger is justified. Sometimes it is not justified.

I see anger about the effects of illegal immigration as justified. I argue for an end to all illegal immmigration and for deportation of all illegals.

Aside: Edie is not Eddie.

Edie said at November 27, 2005 3:43 PM:

Jake, I am not filled with anger towards any of the students here. If anything I feel frustration. I am not an immigrant. I was born and raised here, as where my mother and her mother before her and her mother before her. And the reason I stated that I am not white is that I have read and hear a lot of accusations of racism towards whites when they say theyn are against illegal immigration. The fact is a lot of Americans of all races are against illegal immigration. These kids are in a difficult situation that was brought on by their parents. And yes they are innocent victims in this whole mess, but my point is that American children should not be punished for the actions of the illegal immigrants bringing their children to the United States. That is like sacrificing the American child for what the illegal immigrant parent did. And that is totally disgusting. The immigration system is broke, no doubt about it. But the laws are immigration are in place for a reason. It has nothing to do with race or color, it is about making sure that America does not get over populated. America has millions of poor Americans who are struggling. These are ones who need our compassion first. You do not neglect your own to help someone else. And no I do not feel sorry for myself. I don't think any one here on this board was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Illegal immigration is just one step away from slavery. The businesses profit while the rest of America pays the cost. We are importing poverty while the middle class is shrinking. That is a recipe for disaster. It has been the middle class that has been the back-bone of America and it is disappearing at an alarming rate. If we do not fix the problem of illegal immigration and improve our immigration system, we will soon be a country of the very rich and the very poor. Just like the countries these illegal immigrants are running from. When it all comes down to it, the situation that these kids find themselves in was brought on by their parents and yet American citizens are expected to fix it. I have compassion for these kids, but I am not willing to sacrifice the future of American children to help them. Are you? Instead of being angry at America for not wanting to grant their children in-state tuition, those kids should do what other people, including Americans have done, work their way through college. As I said before it will take longer, but if an education is that important to them, they will do it. I moved to Maryland and wanted to go to college and I found out that because I was from Florida, I had to pay out of state tuition. I worked by way through college at night. It took me 9 years, but I did and I graduated with high honors. That is what I meant by no body helped me. I was determined to get my education and I did. These kids can do the same thing.

alex diaz said at December 2, 2005 12:59 PM:

the voices of the people is what i herd, but are any of this voices coming from illegal people? we come to this country not to do harm,or to destroy we come here because we need a better future, because were we live the offer is not substential and not enof to support our family. I was born in mexico im illegal like many, but the way i see it i feel proud of my self for all the success i had even throughout hard times. my parents are legal here but im not and thats the desatvantage i have see me not like my parents i have hard time with the people that talk around me, i know how it feels i dont know if the right word would be segragation, but it could get close to that term. No matter how hard things are im going to go to a university with or without finacial help, i'm here for a reason, to make someone out of my life. What makes me really sad about all of this is seen all of the american people that waist many advantages the have for drugs or for just stupid things, but i guess thats peoples own choice, but while people waist their time like that im goin to become a Doctor and im going to make the best out of me becasue thats why i came here in the first place!thats my voice and it coms from a person that knows about gret values and apreciation to my parents for making a choice and for showing me that if u want to be someone u have to work for it.

Faye said at December 15, 2005 7:43 AM:

Independence Day allowed America to be separate. Being a citizen of America (whether by birth or through immigration) should have its rewards. Financial aid for furthering education should be a part of that reward. Becoming a citizen is a commitment to our nation; to strengthen family bonds, to love, to care for, to serve in our military, to recognize the pilgrims and their struggles to keep God as our known creator, to give and receive in our marketplace ... this is what it means to be a citizen of America. There are a lot of needs in the world (more known, today, because of technology) but taking care of 'our own' citizens "first" seems logical in creating strong communities and a secure nation. Offering love and assistance to those who are not citizens is a must but it is our duty to care for our American families first; including assistance for a higher education for those who need it. True commitment for someone who has chosen America for their place of residence and for offering their children the better things of the American way means 'giving up their citizenship in their own country.' It gives a different meaning to the word 'immigrant,' doesn't it?

sid said at December 26, 2005 11:22 PM:

HI Everyone,
I used to be a legal international college student In Missouri.But then i fell sick (bipolar) twice and the school kicked me out. i had no money to go back to my country and hence i stayed. Now I am fit and fine and working in Miami um..of course without papers.

Now i want to go back to college. i have a sat score of 1260, 620 english and 640 math. well i lost my visa passport and all other documents i have a police report of these lost things. Its been 6 months since i have not attended college while in college i used to work in Mcdonald's in paycheck. That leaves me with a negligible chance for reinstatement as a f1 student.Well i want to know if there is a way that i can join a college agian.

Another thing that i am here to address is - We did not chose our place of birth, why are we all prejudiced for our innocence. I want to know if you ppl feel the same too. If so lets form a sort of organisation which favors equal treatment of every person on this earth wherever they go. It does not mean that we have to go against the government. Our simple motto will be we as humans are created equal in the eyes of god why is this nationalist racism torturing us so much. Lets form a uniion that supports for a world government which basically gives equal rights to all individuals.

we can start this process by ensuring countries which are under U.S occupation - well u might not agree with the wording but its basically the same - such as Afganisthan and IRAQ
as 2 more states of usa.

So we go on favoring for a world unification with equal rights to all people.

IF any one is interested please email me at herennow at gmail dot com.i want to form an organisation.

bosaus said at January 1, 2006 12:38 PM:

all i can say after reading this entire post is thankyou to everyone who has given me hope for a brighter future.

I was born in London,England and I have been in the US since I was 1 yrs old. I am now 19 yrs old. All I know is America, I pay the taxes, I work, I go to school, I am drug-free, I go to church, I hang with friends, I pay bills, I even attend college.... what is the difference between you and me?? I am undocumented.

To say I am different from anyone on this post is obsurded. I breathe the same air, I speak the same language, I sleep the same way, I celebrate the same things, I graduated from high school the same way.....so have u yet to tell me the difference??

My mom is a single parent of five kids including myself and two of us are in college. Even though we all pay taxes and work our butts off to make a living.....we are still not eligible for financial aid!! Why is America afraid to grant undocumented students aid when we are paying for their children to attend college?!?!? I have cried many times because I wonder how I will pay for each semester....then I pray to God (same as you) and hope for the answer to my problems.

I am not in a gang, I am not smoking my life away, I am not vandalizing anyones property, I am not stealing cars or shoplifting, I am not robbing homes, I am not a drop out, I am not a mean person, I am not a creature made in a lab..... I am a human being who has been guided by God and he has mapped our lives. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON and if God planned for me to be here in America then I will make sure that I make the best out of the oppurtunites.

When you look at yourself in the mirror....I believe you see the same thing I see. The only difference is that you have a document stating your legal status in a country made for all and I dont. But YOU WILL NOT make me turn back and hang my head low.

I AM AN AMERICAN AND GOD HAS GIVEN ME AN OPPURTUNITY THAT NO MAN WILL TAKE AWAY!!

-thank you for your time.....to my fellow "illegals" -let no man tell you that you can not prosper becuase of your status because we are human beings lead into a country to show people that they should not fear change.

isabel said at January 2, 2006 10:38 PM:

Hello. My name is Isabel I'm 20yrs old i been in the U.S. since i was 10yrs old.....i been in school since the 5th grade. I'm currently in a community college i got a scholarship, which i'm so happy that it got me thru my first years in college, but that money is already gone... i cant file for finacial aid for govt. grants because i need a social.... Just because we are not citizens of this country, i know some people who hate us because we come to this country and think were taking away benifits from them and thats not the case at all. We come here in hopes of a better future for ourselves. Yes we have a lot crime in our citys and states and because of the rise of illegal citizens........but why u ask yourself? because we are not giving the opportunity to get an education to achieve our own goals and provide for this country ourselves. I want to be a productive citizen in the United states and for me to be able to become one I need Education and with finacial help i can become a productive citizen and live a better life for me and my future. You know sometimes i see US citizens who dont take advantage of the help and benifits the govt. gives them to get an education.they throw it away and end up working at MacDonalds with a low paying job for the rest of their lives. Now why not give those rewards to the one who really want to achieve and improve and get an education. I'm going for a bachelors degree in Bilingual Education for Elementary, I want to be a role model for the future citizens/non-citizens to this country and i'm proud that i have selected this career because i give back something to my own community and country which is now the U.S. I agree we should not be punish just because we want an education but rewarded.........I hope that in the near future all of our Illegal citizens who persue an education deserve finicial aid regardless of there immigration status.....

Edie said at January 5, 2006 11:20 AM:

Okay kids, answer this question. What would happen if you were given U.S. citizenship today. But in the next year you had 10 million more people illegally immigrate to the U.S. Among these individuals were say 1 million teenage kids who would graduate at the end of the year. They in turn would also want to be given college financial aid just as you granted. Just last month the federal government announced that financial aid was being reduced for college kids. Now here's the question. Where would the money come from. (Remember no matter what you may have heard, America is in serious debt. We will have a budget deficit of almost 800 billion by the end of next year.) Would you endorse them being granted federal financial aid if it meant there would be less or possibly no money to help you to go to college? Please be honest with your answers.

And kids, America wants all kids around to get educations. That is one of the reasons we try to encourage countries to become democratic and give huge amounts of economic aid. But if any country is to change, it has to be changed by it's citizens. A lot of the priviledges that American citizens enjoy were fought hard for. We simply cannot afford to take half the world's population into our country and support them in jobs, education, etc. If we even tried, we would be like the countries your parents ran from. And the United States would just become another third world country.

Alvaro said at January 12, 2006 7:48 PM:

I wish that for only one day one of you closed minded "go back where you came from" people would shut up, and see the sacrifises people are doing for a better life. To those who say that illegals don't deserve a higher education than college only say so because they have never witnessed poverty. You just dont understand that it is almost impossible to get into this country legally with a visa unless you have $$$. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that no $$$ = no visa. So what are these poor people suppose to do? Raise their family in poverty so that they wont disrupt the pleasant lifestyle of Americans? COME ON!!

Edie said at January 13, 2006 7:47 PM:

Listen Alvaro, just because some of the people here disagree with giving children of illegal immigrants in state tuition rates here in the United States does not mean they are close minded to the state that of the countries these children came from. It is simply us protecting our own children. Something which your parents country should have done. Are you implying that we should just forsake our own country's children for someone else's. They just reduced federal aid for American kids in college. So what do we do now, just get it further reduced by helping another countries children. I know a lot of you have spent many years here and say you feel like you are American. But the fact remains, when we had the huge amounts of immigrants from European countries come here after World War II, they also bought their children. Those children knew no other home except the ones they had come from which include, Poland, Germany, Italy, to include a few. Yet they adjusted to their new homes. They immigrated legally. They came from foreign country and were adopted into this country. A lot of argument is being said that because some of you were raised in this country that you know no other country, so you would not like to go back to your parents country. While that can be understandable, it would not be impossible to adjust, as prior immigrants have proven. Prior immigrants children adjusted to coming to this country after knowing no other countries as their homes for years. We have given each of you a high school education where some of you could not even get that in your parents home country. Do not further ask us to risk our own children's college education in order to help you further. That is an insult to us. So if it makes you kids feel better to call us close minded, racists or whatever. Which of you would risk your child's furture for someone else's?

Alvaro said at January 15, 2006 9:23 PM:

So you immigrated here legally huh? The pilgrims and all the Europeans immigrated here legally? Man, I must have REALLY not been paying attention in history class because I don't recall the native americans asking these people for their visa when they got off their ship. Now I totally see where you are coming from, wanting the best for your children. But like I said, you cannot expect the parents of these people to live in poverty so that they wont disrupt the American lifestyle. I can't argue and say that illegals are a blessing to this country, but what do you say to that kid that has studied hard in school, worked hard to maintain their huge family, and you know mexicans have HUGE families. Anyways, what if this kid was straight A, overcame all the obstacles of poverty, and patriotic of this country? That high school diploma isnt gonna do jack!! Remember, he is illegal so where is he gonna work? This is what i mean when i say be opened minded and not just simply "all illegals go back where u came from cause my kid is gonna have to compete for that financial aid"

Edie said at January 17, 2006 8:36 AM:

By the way Alvaro, I never said I immigrated here. My family has been in America for hundreds upon hundreds of years. We were imported by way of slavery!

Edie said at January 18, 2006 5:10 AM:

Why does my post keep getting deleted? I posted this to forum yesterday.

Alvaro, there were no immigration laws when the pilgrims came to American. Just as their were no starbucks, schools, or hospitals. But we do have immigration laws now and they should be followed. The parents of these children are to blame for the difficulties they are experiencing now, but it is unfair and unjust for American children's futures to be jeopardized because of the actions of the parents of these childrens. They are innocent too! Now answer my question Alvaro, would you jeopardize the future of your children to help someone else's?

Alvaro said at January 20, 2006 8:57 PM:

I understand that back then there were no immigration laws and that times have changed. But what has not changed is what this country has stood for, which is opportunity. Back then, all the people that came here was for the exact same reason that people, such as those from mexico, are coming here now and that reason is a better life. All I am saying is that those people who have worked hard all their lives to progress DESERVE the opportunity to continue their academic studies, regarless of their immigration status. And to answer your question Edie, I would not jeopardize the future of my children, but I would sure as hell make then compete for that college money. You know that hispanics, especially illegals are at a GREAT disadvantage for academic success right from the beggining. If he/she fought through the struggle to EARN that education, then he/she deserves to be helped more than one who hasn't endured as much, it is only fair.

Edie said at January 21, 2006 11:56 AM:

Yes Alvaro, this country has long had a history of people coming to this country for a better life. And there is nothing wrong with people coming to America in search of a better life as long as they do it legally. The desire of one individual of another country or even millions does not in-validate America's immigration laws. Alvaro, you think American children are not competing for the priviledge to go to college. Why do you think that colleges require SAT scores to be at certain levels? As much as we can both agree that education is important to children, the unfortunate fact is that college is not free. Let's take Mexico for example. I don't quite understand this, but in Mexico after sixth grade, Mexico citizens have to pay for their children to go to school from grades 7-12. But when it comes to college, it is free. Now if that is not a recipe for disaster, then what is? Because if the student's family can't afford to pay for school from grades 7-12, they certainly will not be able to go to college. But if they could get their education in grades k-12, they then could work at jobs to help make enough to go to college. Now it will probably be on a part time basis, but they could eventually get their college degree. No, our kids should not have to compete with foreign kids for in-state tuition slots, those are a priviledge not a right, just like driver's licenses. It is based on being only on being a resident of state, but a legal citizens of the country in which that state resides. The state cannot exist without the country. And let us face it Alvaro, it cost $10,000 a year to teach a bilingual child. Do you really believe these children's parents are paying $10,000 in state taxes or income taxes to pay $10,000 a year for each of their children to go to school. I don't think so, because if they were, it would completing blow out the window the saying "they are only working at jobs Americans don't want." Last year two million jobs were created in America, only 143,000 were middle income. The rest were low wage jobs. Americans are paying medical insurance for one person at a cost of about $900.00 a month and for a family of 4 about $1400.00. A lot of American families are now having to pay for food and medical visits, or medicine itself, by credit card. We are having enough trouble trying to take care of our own children. Do not burden us by asking us to take care of another country's children even further. Like I said K-12 has been already paid for. For those children who are citizens of Mexico, you can receive a free education in your country. You are it's citizens and that is what is offered to you free of charge. Good Luck!

Alvaro said at January 22, 2006 3:18 PM:

Many of my peers have been living in this great land as far back as they can remember. They are hard working, both physically and mentally. They are law abiding leaders in their school, positive contributors in their community, and patriotic supporters of this country. Yet, there is one small detail that distinguishes them from me. I was born here and they were not. They are undocumented people. Under a ruling of the United States Supreme Court, these young people are eligible for education from kindergarten through high school. After this, the United States government slams the door in their faces.
I cannot write that the government does nothing to help illegal immigrants, for that would be a lie. I cannot say either that illegal immigration is nothing but a blessing to this country, because that too would be false. What I am describing is the unfair and unethical reality that deprives these students, who are in all but one form like me, of their human rights. Is this not America? Is this not the country where people overcome extreme obstacles to obtain an education and use it to find and live the American dream? Is this not the land of opportunity, the most diverse and tolerant nation on earth? If this is the true America, then why would people who bear no responsibility for the decision to come here, who may not even remember their native birthplace – why should these young people suffer if they have lived their entire lives just as any other American citizen?
Plyler v. Doe was a case where the state of Texas argued that they could withhold from local school districts state funds used for educating undocumented children. The case went to the Supreme Court which ruled in 1982 that the undocumented people, though not citizens of the United States, are people "in any ordinary sense of the term" and that therefore they are afforded Fourteenth Amendment protections. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the illegal immigrant children and said that Texas could not prove that regulation was needed to serve a "compelling state interest.” After this ruling, all children nationwide were guaranteed an education through 12th grade. By what happens after high school? It makes no sense that the law provides for all young people to receive their elementary and secondary education, but in the thirteenth year of education all of a sudden they no longer see them as “people in any ordinary sense of the term,” but rather as illegal, undocumented, and unwanted.
I am a patriotic citizen of this country and I truly believe that all branches of government should provide for citizens and legal residents. But anyone with a conscience can see that it is unjust to ignore the reality of hundreds of thousands of undocumented children once they have grown up. The Supreme Court argued that children had no control over their status. How is it different once the children have grown up in this country? Even in states or localities where undocumented students are accepted into college, they have no right to financial assistance and their very legitimacy as students is being challenged in the courts. The government must stop rationalizing their actions with the simple justification that illegal means illegal and must be responsible for the power to create or destroy the dreams of many innocent human beings.



Edie said at January 22, 2006 3:51 PM:

Alvaro, you are leaving our a very important element in this whole equation. Was were these children not the responsibility of their parents. And were those parents not the responsibility of their native countries. While many Americans can sympathize with these children's plight, let's face it in other countries these children would not even get education of K-12. You cannot help the world. And believe me there are over a billion people who are living in major poverty. Even worst than in countries like Mexico. The United States is barely taking care of their own citizen children. A lot of these children can get free college educations in their own countries. So now we are asked to put our own children at risk so these children who are citizens of other countries can go to college at in-state tuition rates. Well Alvaro, get the government to build more colleges. If you can it would be a miracle. Then there would be more in-state tuition slots for everyone, including these children. You have got to fix one problem before you address another. If not you are only making the problem worse and breeding an atmosphere of animosity.

Alvaro said at January 23, 2006 6:23 PM:

Haha, you know I am just never going to convince you to think otherwise just like you will never convince me.

Alvaro said at January 23, 2006 6:28 PM:

Let me just say to anyone that is illegal and is reading this. Just because the government isn't going to help you anymore, there are many different organizations that will. You just got to look hard. Talk with your counselor about it and never stop trying no matter what others tell you. Show all these people your true value.

Edie said at January 24, 2006 5:17 PM:

No Alvaro, you are not going to convince me that this is a good idea. But I respect your right to voice your opinions. Hopefully you will do the same. I have already tried to give other options whereby these children can go to college. I myself had to pay out of state prices to go to college where I am. I mentioned this in one of my earlier posting. The main thing is that if you really want an education, don't wait for someone to help it. It can be done. It may not be easy, but if your education is important enough to you, you will find a way. I did. And though I felt like crying sometime because of the expense incurred by me paying out of state prices, once I got that diploma in my hands, I knew it was worth it.

heron said at February 2, 2006 6:22 PM:

Education in the U.S. is a high priority for most of undocumented students, which I believe it should be granted to them just like God granted this land to the Europeans, to make a better life, "the pursuit of happines", well all we ask for is for more facilities to be aproved in colleges, loans that will be paid back, and the equalnes on who succeed and who need help succeeding, I don't believe that we live in the most powerful nation based on its foundations, its principles done by the founding fathers of this nation, that came IMMIGRATING from Europe, and there still people out there that think that we are using their money. What money? I ask. The supreme government approves a war that requires Billions of dollars blowing bombs, killing people, for what? the equalness of one nation?, what about this nation's equalness? where is diplomacy, IN EDUCATION!!!! that's where it is, I understand it's hard to make every body that is undocummented legal, why don't they approve a law that allow's illegal high school students with a high average for a Visa based on school pettition, using teachers as sponsors, which I don't see why they wouldn't be if is for the good of this one nation, Not other nation, THIS ONE NATION.

heron said at February 2, 2006 6:55 PM:

So Mr. Edie, I just have a very small note, just to make our words equal, I read this one part "Well Alvaro, get the government to build more colleges. If you can it would be a miracle. Then there would be more in-state tuition slots for everyone, including these children. You have got to fix one problem before you address another." Well... if u can stop the U.S. spending of $80,000 per minute that the U.S. uses by been in a foreing nation, they would probably save some money, then we can require the building of new colleges, "Then there would be more in-state tuition slots for everyone, including these children." so we wont have to use "your money" or exposs you child education. I mean you said it;You have to fix one problem before you address another.

mark said at February 5, 2006 9:45 AM:

Hey I was wondering for all you illigals if I can live at your house for free and eat your food for free and you can pay for my medical bills,insurance,car o wait we allready pay for that because since I and all law abiding citizens of the u.s. born or not of this counrty who follow the law have paid for you illigals who break the law long enough. And if your so starving go to the hospital that we legal citizens pay for and get fixed so you dont have anymore childern since you cant aford to eat.Then do you say your christan while you break mans law and gods law by being illegal.If you want respect and to be a immagrant that people can, then you have to be respectful and earn it by becoming legal.I dont care where you are born you have the right to become a legal citizen but when you are illegal you are a full blown criminal no matter where your from.Your just to lazy to do it the right way and claim your the victum so you can get your free services and money.As for paying taxes, If you are working legal you are taxed.the quote"my parents paid taxes and recieved nothing" o.k. are you illegal? breaking the law? now you want some kind of reward for being a criminal? well you are free education,food stamps,etc... yea really your all the victums.Why don't you live in your countries? let me answer that your countries suck, if they were so great you would be there.Your goverments dont care at all about you,make a change and change your countries goverment like the united states did and quit ruining our counrty.

Edie said at February 7, 2006 5:02 PM:

Well... if u can stop the U.S. spending of $80,000 per minute that the U.S. uses by been in a foreing nation, they would probably save some money, then we can require the building of new colleges, "Then there would be more in-state tuition slots for everyone, including these children."

Well Mr Heron, I am going to guess by the comment above that you are talking about the war in Iraq. Well "Mr. I love America!" the wars that my country fights are in the name of bringing Democracy to other countries or preserving our own. You may not agree with that, but let's face it while you are living in America, whether you be a citizen or non-citizen, you are being protected by the Military Personnel and Arsenal of the U.S. So no I would not ask my country to stop spending money to further democracy in another country so that more colleges can be built so that the children of illegal immigrants can go to college in-state. Why should Americans have to give up their security to provide for some other countries children. It would be more important to ask the leaders of the countries that these children come from why they continue to fail their citizens in providing them with jobs, education, etc.

And as for not using my money or any other legal resident or U.S. citizen's money, let's face it the money that the parents of these children pay in taxes does not even cover the money to educate them in grades K-12. Let alone the medical expenses incurred. To educate one child costs $8,000 per year. And if their parents paid taxes equalling $8,000 a year, then they are working at jobs AMERCIANS DO WANT. The sad stories that you and a lot of people are giving out have worn thin and they are only generating an animosity that will eventually elevate. Like I said I am sorry that these kids are in this predicament, but the fact remains it is one that their parents caused. Their parents are not only responsible, but accountable. Not the citizens of the U.S.

solomon said at February 18, 2006 2:16 AM:

i am solomon from ethiopia.i am 22yrs old boy and poor as destiny of other younge ethiopians.but i have good mind and get enough point to join university.but i donot have money so i want some christian who can pay to my fee.
thanks and GOD BLESS US.

beloved said at March 2, 2006 5:30 PM:

Tony Morrison gave the most significant value to a group of people considered insignificantly inferior: a name. To those thousands of men, women, and children, who died in slave ships durring that awful dark period of American history, she named: BELOVED. Why? Giving someone and identity, a name, humanizes the individual, the group, the community; it reminds the opressor what the victim already knows: that he/she is human, not an animal. In an attempt to huminize and honor those African slaves, Ms. Morrison resonates in the minds of millions of youths today. For that is what we represent, the millions of umdocumented minors in the United States: Beloved. We came from a country that has suffered the colonial atrocities of Europe, only to be consistently stepped on by the United States. It is a country rich in culture, but more importantly, rich in values. Not by choice did we cross a desert, a river; and not by choice did we leave our beautiful but frailed country. Many of us have not known any other home but the United States. It is here that we have conquered los gueros with our salsa, with our food, with our latin-infused optimism. Because you see, we are no longer a nationality, but a fusion of the ideals of our aztec ancestors and the dreams of our parents. To go back to where we came from is the same as telling us to move out of our middle-class neighborhood homes, leave the high school where we attend, stop going to our Debate Club meetings, drop out of the Soccer/basketball/football team, forget about cheerleading practice, leave our families, and move to a foreign country where the opportunities are as ephimeral as a shooting star itself. In case you haven't figured it out: we have assimilitated to the American lifestyle, and though we are capeable of change, we have come too far to give up now. And that is what this fight, this struggle with our identity, is about. What's being asked from us is to leave the life we've bled for all these years. We are being told to go back to our country if we want to study, right? What makes a country your country? Isn't it a familiar setting where your extended family has its roots, where its past can be traced and its future reached? Guess what? That is California, that is Texas, and the rest of the United States for all 6 million of us, children ofundocumented workers. We are Beloved.

Edie said at March 3, 2006 7:04 AM:

Yes, you are beloved by God as all mankind is. But the fact remains that no matter how you feel and how you have assimilated, it does not make you a citizen of the country you are in. Life is not about how you feel, but about reality. As you said you are fusion of the ideals of your aztec ancestors and the dreams of your parents. Your parents dreams are for you to grow up happy, safe and strong just I am sure is the dream of countless millions of parents around the world. But the acquirement of those dreams should not be done through breaking the laws of another country. Whether it be by you or your parents. That is life. And that is what is right! And what life have you bled for? The children of U.S. military members are born every year in other countries around the world and grow up in these countries for many years, but the U.S. is still their country, no matter how they may feel about the country they are living in. American is still their country. And fortunately or unfortunately, your country is yours. It is not America.

Alvaro said at April 6, 2006 9:58 AM:

Mark, let me answer you comment you posted with four simple words...."you are a dumbass." You have no clue what it means to be illegal. You have no clue about what it feels living in a small, jammed house working 18 hour days at below minimum wage for the sake of your family. You do not know how it feels to leave your family behind in Mexico knowing that you might never see them again, for if you return, you cannot come back. You do not know how it feels to endure the discrimination of employers who exploit us, for we cannot speak our minds for we fear deportation. ALL THESE PEOPLE WANT IS A DECENT LIVING!!! So I politely ask of you, next time you want to post your opinions, dont be such dumbass and for one second put yourself in the place of an illegal. You say we took over your house? But didn't the house originally belong to a native american? You say we didnt pay taxes? But what is that thing that they take from our checks, that we dont collect at the end of the year called? And then the other thing that I am paying for the old people that i know i will not get? hmm. I think they are called taxes. You say stay behind in my land? Well, I dont feel like raising my family in an impoverish nation, would you? Oh, and I should wait my turn to become a legal immgrant? Well, I got news for you. The government will never give residency to a poor mexican with no money, an that is why I will rather RISK MY LIFE CROSSING BORDERS, RIVERS, AND DESERTS, for the good of my family, and my shot at the American Dream. The only thing that gives me optimism is that people like you will never take away the hope of living the american dream for anyone who has the strength, intelligence, and will to reach it, no matter where you are from. And this is why I love this country above all others. So keep talking your trash, but trust me. It wont do you no good.

will said at April 6, 2006 11:41 PM:

I have no problem with the Mexican people trying to come to America to attain a better life, all were asking is that you do it the right way, it works out better for everyone. And i know that you believe, and you always bring this up, that this is the land of the free and everyone is welcome. But were not in the 1600's anymore, times have changed and there are more reasons for shutting down the boarder. Alot of Mexicans come for the dream of having a good job and life but along with those who come with good intentions, there are the drug smugglers and quite possibly terrorists. Look at the growth of Mexican gangs in California, most are uneducated and that is not the fault of American schools. They come over with no or little understanding of English and then turn around and tear into the teachers and say they are not doing a good job. Over crowded schools are largly happening because we cannot facilitate the Mexican influx into our society and schools. Los Angeles has one of the lowest if not THE lowest test scores in the nation, and because of it we have not only the American citizens upset, but the families of the illegals are also upset. it sounds harsh but it is the truth, and to sit there and say that it is your right to come to America and use the money of tax paying Americans and then turn and bitch about the problems we have is unbelievable. Alvaro, if you are an illegal alien then you are not paying taxes, there is a reason that your being paid so little and working off the books, your hired because your employer does not want to pay employee tax on you. And if you are illegal and your taxes are being with held on your statements, then that means you are using a fake identity from a real American and once again breaking the law.
One last thing i would like to point out, it concerns these school walkouts, why are they parading around their Mexican flag and protesting that they want to be American? We already know where you come from and who you are but come on its only hurting your cause with the American people. Plus, if you watched any of the news stations who were covering this story, if you listened to the 16, 17, and 18 year old Mexican students try and defend their position, most of them dont even understand what the hell there doing. Were not going to deport all of the illegals, its just not possible, were trying to impose laws that will turn away those who are trying to come in illegally. If your going to protest something at least understand what you are doing, and stop following blindly. And please stop using the excuse that we took this land from you, its not going to get you anywhere. The last thing i want to say is that if you really do love your country as much as you say you do then go to your president, go to your leaders, stand up for yourselves in your own country and fight for the types of freedoms we have. Many Americans have done this for the freedoms we have today, Ceasar Chavez should have done what he did in America back in his home country, you just dont have the leadership to fight for what you want back home, and thats sad.

will said at April 6, 2006 11:42 PM:

I have no problem with the Mexican people trying to come to America to attain a better life, all were asking is that you do it the right way, it works out better for everyone. And i know that you believe, and you always bring this up, that this is the land of the free and everyone is welcome. But were not in the 1600's anymore, times have changed and there are more reasons for shutting down the boarder. Alot of Mexicans come for the dream of having a good job and life but along with those who come with good intentions, there are the drug smugglers and quite possibly terrorists. Look at the growth of Mexican gangs in California, most are uneducated and that is not the fault of American schools. They come over with no or little understanding of English and then turn around and tear into the teachers and say they are not doing a good job. Over crowded schools are largly happening because we cannot facilitate the Mexican influx into our society and schools. Los Angeles has one of the lowest if not THE lowest test scores in the nation, and because of it we have not only the American citizens upset, but the families of the illegals are also upset. it sounds harsh but it is the truth, and to sit there and say that it is your right to come to America and use the money of tax paying Americans and then turn and bitch about the problems we have is unbelievable. Alvaro, if you are an illegal alien then you are not paying taxes, there is a reason that your being paid so little and working off the books, your hired because your employer does not want to pay employee tax on you. And if you are illegal and your taxes are being with held on your statements, then that means you are using a fake identity from a real American and once again breaking the law.
One last thing i would like to point out, it concerns these school walkouts, why are they parading around their Mexican flag and protesting that they want to be American? We already know where you come from and who you are but come on its only hurting your cause with the American people. Plus, if you watched any of the news stations who were covering this story, if you listened to the 16, 17, and 18 year old Mexican students try and defend their position, most of them dont even understand what the hell there doing. Were not going to deport all of the illegals, its just not possible, were trying to impose laws that will turn away those who are trying to come in illegally. If your going to protest something at least understand what you are doing, and stop following blindly. And please stop using the excuse that we took this land from you, its not going to get you anywhere. The last thing i want to say is that if you really do love your country as much as you say you do then go to your president, go to your leaders, stand up for yourselves in your own country and fight for the types of freedoms we have. Many Americans have done this for the freedoms we have today, Ceasar Chavez should have done what he did in America back in his home country, you just dont have the leadership to fight for what you want back home, and thats sad.

Alvaro said at April 7, 2006 10:28 PM:

Will, I think you got some, if not most of the points where I totally agree. The reason I bring the past up to remind people the facts, that this IS a country of immigrants. You are totally correct when you say that this is not the 1600s. Times have changed. Now we worry about human smuggling, drugs, terrorism, and weapons. These problems did not exist back then. You are also right when you talk about education. It is sad that people risk their lives to give their families a better life, and their children return the favor by dropping out of school, joining gangs, etc. You are also correct about how it is wrong that parents blame the schools for not teaching their children "properly." Parents, and children should adapt to THIS environment, and not vise versa. You are correct when you say many illegals don't pay taxes, they cram schools, and are taking money out of well fair. Now that you can see some common ground between your stand and my stand, let me tell you the rest of the story. The story that you will never see on the news, but that is real. First of all, MOST, not all, but most of the people that come illegally to this country do so with good intentions. They are not criminals, drug smugglers, or whatever the news is beating into peoples heads. Secondly, we are contributing to the society. We are doing jobs that nobody wants. Think about it. Have you ever heard a white person arguing with a mexican over who is going to clean the toilets, or over who is going to go outside to pick the fruit? No. I am not saying whites, blacks, or whatever dont do these dirty jobs, I'm just saying that for what i have seen, in the agricultral business anyways, it is illegals and the children of the illegals who do this hard, nasty, underpaid work. I know that you will say that citizens dont do this work because it is underpaid, but like i said, currently it is us doing this kind of work. Finally, tell me what you would do in this scenario. You and your wife are living in a very, very poor land. You have no education, but you know that if you go north to the "land of opportunity," you life and the life of your future family will improve. So you both leave your family and friends behind knowing that it is possible that you might not see them again. You cross rivers and deserts until you finally reach the city in the land of opportunity. But once you arrive, you know that your struggle isnt over. You live an a crammed apartment with other people you do not even know. You have a shitty job where your employer treats you as he wishes, and tells you to do as he says or he will deport you. You work endless hours of little pay to maintain your family. You realize that your life cannot improve unless you do something. So you go to school. You learn english, then you learn skills such as carpentry and car repair. little by little, your life begins to improve. your kids grow up, one joins the marines, one joins the army, the other the national gaurd, and the other earns a full ride scholarship to go to college because he was smart in school. because of your determination and intelligence, you make your own business constructing houses, now that you excell in that skill. Now you live life in leisure. you look back and see the accomplishments you have done, all in the right way guided only by determination and will. Suddenly, the government, the one that you have paid taxes for all these years, the government that is being defended by your son in Iraq, tells you that you have to move, and they force you out. You arrive back in your native land, where you are once again poor and miserable and without your family. So what would you do? This is my story. The only difference is that my parents earned residency in the 1986 amnesty. But what if all this had started in 1987, and my dad wasn't a resident? Where did he steal anyone else's American dream like you hear the illegals are doing? NOWHERE. Now i am only a high school student, so i truly do not know if illegal immigrants are economically doing more harm or good to this country. But i do know when something is wrong and when something is right. So trust me, forcing ALL 12 million illegals back to their land is wrong. All I am saying to all you people who disagree with me is to for one second put yourself in the place of an illegal who is acting like my dad did. THEN come up with a COMPREHENSIVE immigration reform.

Edie said at April 8, 2006 2:34 PM:

Alvaro, if an illegal immigrant has a son or daughter in the military, I can only presume 2 things. One, that they are an American citizen over 18 years of age or two that they are acquiring their U.S. citizenship by serving in the military in exchange for U.S. citizenship. These parents would have no problem with gaining U.S. citizenship. I have seen it done in the past and it still works. I am not saying the process is not drawn out, but they can in fact get it. I would like to also say that illegal immigration is a culture of corruption. I am not saying the illegal immigrants are corrupt. It is the activities that surround it. It feeds on the desperation of people trying to find a better life for themselves and their families. The only way to stop it is to strictly enforce the borders and put strong work force verification on the books. Countries that do this have little if no illegal immigration. But the negative effects of illegal immigration for the natives of the country they enter is also a reality. They surpress the wages of the natives of the country they enter (face it, you know as well as I do that for businesses the goal is profit and too many business owners would make as much profit as they can by paying little or nothing to their workers, while they themselves have all their needs and their family needs provided for). If illegal immigrants were not available, the poorest of the native country would be in a position to bargain for higher wages. all of these so called menial labor jobs are mostly hard jobs. They may not require high school or college degrees, but a lot of them require a lot of physical effort. As far as I am concerned, jobs that require a lot of physical effort or mental (as in education) should be paid well. It makes no sense that a business owner to have all their families needs provided for while his or her workers live in poverty. That is plain warped. For instance a lot of business owners keep saying that if the minimum wage was raised, they would go out of business and the economy would suffer. But in dozens of cities around the U.S. that when they raised the minimum wage, the economies actually grew. You know why? The people spent their money within those cities, thereby increasing sales. The businesses still made a profit. Keeping wages down allows business to make larger profits and thus get richer quicker. Raising wages means making those profits over a longer period. But this way the workers and the business owner still profit. One in wages and one in business profit. All this stuff we are being sold by the business community is a pack of lies. If no illegal immigrants were present, native workers could in fact demand more livable wages. Then if we need more workers for those jobs, more workers could be brough in legally. That way they and the immigrant can work side by side, each doing the same work for the same pay. Neither one has the advantage by working for lower wages. There would be no animosity or resentment, because they are both on equal footing. And in the case where the immigrant coming in is poor, we can have an agreement, where they pay say a tenth of the cost and pay the rest of the cost of immigrating him or her be paid on a monthly basis over a 5-10 year period. Everybody wins. But with all the marches going on, a lot of Americans are well and truly pissed and offended. Waving the flag of another country in America while you are demanding that America give you citizenship is not only offensive, but it smacks of anti-Americanism. If your former country has failed to provide you and your family with the means to provide for your family, it has in fact failed you. American Citizenship is a priviledge. It is not a right for anyone who is a citizen of another country. If you asking someone for citizenship in their country. You don't demand. And you don't go waving the flag of another country and calling it's natives racist because they ask that you respect their laws. If you want respect, you have to also give it. With all the hateful things I am seeing on some of these boards, I can tell you that no matter what the outcome is for the immigration reform that is before congress, I fear that this nation has been torn in half. God help us all!

Alvaro said at April 10, 2006 10:22 AM:

Edie, sorry but you are exaggerating just a bit too much. This nation is not torn in half. Yes, its true that about 50/50 agree or disagree with just about everything from political points of view, to abortion, to immigration. But the reason I say that it is not torn apart is because what makes us different from other countries is that we allow everyone to express their minds and opinions without them fearing that we will kill them or blow them up. Although we disagree with one another all the time, we let each other speak what they want. This exaggeration is everywhere, and that is why I believe people are getting paranoid. I mean, I turn on the news and Lou Dobbs is telling the nation that illegals are narcotic felons invading our country with the help of the mexican military with the intent of robbing citizens from their job and destroy our sovereignty. Plus they are rioters who disrespect this country's flag, an absolute economic burden submerging this country into poverty, and, they are sick with illnesses that could easily transfer to citizens and thousands could be infected. This is the message that is being beaten into peoples heads, no I should say this is the LIE that is being beaten into peoples heads. I say it is a lie because the amount of exaggeration that goes into it. As I have said before, it could very well be that illegals are a burden to this economy, but deporting 11 - 20 million illegals back to their country is NOT the answer. So I ask all of you, what is? You complain about this and that, but how are you going to solve the problem in an ethical way?

John said at April 10, 2006 2:01 PM:

FUCK MEXICANS, all they do is take the money they get here and send it back to wet-back land!! stop taking our money....Gangbangers and whores are all that we get from accross the boarder, i hope you all get deported and sent back to your home, bitch at your government and not a government that you do not be long. GO HOME NOW!!

mark said at May 2, 2006 5:53 PM:

Alvaro you are one stupid ignorant fool. I don't break the law you do that means your a criminal.As for not knowing how it is to live with 18 people your right I don't and I wouldn't. You have know idea on following the law and respecting anothers country.Your country sucks mr dumbass thats why your here because your crap country mexico abandonded you.Lets talk history now mr clueless, spain, was the one who raped and pillaged the south American countrys why do you think you speak spanish.Geranomo hated the Mexicans with a passion. If you want to be real the Indians own all the land,then the spanish took it which if your mexican your a decendent of, then the Mexicans who won in a revolution against spain.Third if your paying taxes whos social securty card are you using?False idenity is also a crime.lets see 10 billion paid in taxes by illigals 29 billion paid to illgals in social services, whats that mean? you didn't give crap.Quit playing the victum, if you hate mexico so much which you do because your here then change Mexico Americans did against the English.As for your comment didn't your house belong to native americans? answer is yes and I am a Native American unlike you so get the hell out of my country now.

mark said at May 2, 2006 6:12 PM:

This is for the illegal criminal alvaro, we want legal citizens, not illegal jackasses like yourself.

alvaro said at May 5, 2006 10:09 AM:

Haha, it is funny to see how little fagos like yourselves talk crap only online, but know you would never talk to me, or any other hispanic in our face. First of all, john, go to hell you racist, stupid, xenophobic dumbas. And mark, the other ignorant dumbas, I am a citizen so no I am not illegal. Get your facts straight before talking trash, and pay attention to what I say. The one thing that I do agree on is that mexico is not able to maintain its own citizens, so yes, in a way, it definitely sucks. Now, you say we are a burden to the economy, and it could be true. But people never take into account the puchasing power of immigrants, the taxes that cannot be reclaimed, the businesses created by immigrants, and the jobs immigrants do. I have never played the victim, dumbas, but I am simply standing up for my people. Also, you say we are criminals because we crossed the border illegally? If you were driving downn the highway and the speed limit is 55 and you go 56, you just broke the law. Are you a criminal? Didn't think so. Remember that illegals must obtain false documents so that they can work, so that they can maintain their families. Next time you call me an illegal criminal, take consideration for the illegals who are simply trying to work and make a living. And no, sorry, but I am not leaving MY country. If YOU dont like me being here LEGALLY, then YOU get the hell you.
P.S. What kind of Native American is named "MARK?" Stop lying dumbas, you're no Native American

mark said at May 9, 2006 9:26 AM:

Alvaro the stupid asshole,you are a racist dickwad.And you sy we so you lump your self with the illegals so you are one ass wipe.Look at the schools and hospitals that your people have ruined look at that bitch.And if you want to stand up for your people then stand in mexico the land of pure shit which your people made into shit and are now making the united states into.And yes you have commited a crime if speeding it is a misdamenor but a crime so yes you are a criminal because you broke the LAW!!! something you have no respect for. you say you are legal but crossed the border illigally so what is it are you a citizen or a illegal make up you lying mind you stupid bitch. As for being native american I am and i dont give a crap what you belive since you are a lying criminal.I would say all I have just said right to your bitch ass face, go back to your shit hole called mexico you illegal bitch.

jane said at May 9, 2006 8:57 PM:

John:

You and other nativists argue that "all [mexicans] do is take the money they get here and send it back to wet-back land". Yes, these "wet-backs" pump money into the Mexican economy through remittances, but they contribute more than their fair share to the american economy as well. You should read Julian Simon's "The Economic Consequences of Immigration." Simon, a Professor of Business Administration at the University of Maryland, will therein explain how the net contribution of undocumented immigrants to the American economy is about 10 billion dollars annually. This is AFTER considering the costs coming from the resources they utilize.

robert said at May 9, 2006 10:41 PM:

All illegal immagrants not legal they have depleted the medical care, social services,schools,car insurance etc... so the 10 billion they suposedly give they take over 30 billion in social services alone drive without car insurance and dont pay for their medical so who pays? the legal american citizens.No one dislikes legal citizens they dislike illegals no matter were they are from, people who break the law. Legal citizens of this country have to pay for it illegals don't pay. Its like if you give me a 20 dollar bill and I give you a penny in return who makes out there it is obvious, same with the illegals if they pay taxes they are breaking the law by having a social security card number whos is that? they would have had to forge one if they are illegal which is now breaking two laws.If you don't follow the rule of law then there is mass chaos and crimes are commited.Where do you draw the line? only to benifit your illegals or do you have laws that will benifit law abidding citizens? I feel you should obey the law and so do the majority of legal americans and we legal citizens should not put up with criminals trying to dictate our rule of law.

jane said at May 10, 2006 1:52 PM:

"This is AFTER considering the costs coming from the resources they utilize."

Institutions allow illegal immigrants to pay for healthcare and college educations without needing fake social security numbers.

Robert said at May 10, 2006 4:23 PM:

What don't you understand about illegal against the law?Why are all these medical facilities are having to close their doors? Schools way to overcrowded with children of illegals?If institutions knowingly let illegals into their schools they are breaking the law and can be shut down.The proof is in the way our country is right now in total finnancial ruin.millions of legal americans are suffering because of illegal aliens, crime,health,insurance,schools,housing you name it.If your to blind to see that then you are a very blind person to the reality of what is going on.To stick up for illegals is wrong, you are sticking up for criminals. criminal is someone who breaks the law just in case you forgot.Im sure if someone stole your mail or car you would want that person to be caught and prosacuted under the law,so I dont see your point on protecting people who are clearly breaking the law.ignorance is bliss so you must be a very happy person.

jane said at May 10, 2006 10:33 PM:

Why do you think illegal immigrants come here in the first place? American employers (textiles, meatpacking, manufacturing) recruit them to cross the border and work at their plants.

It's absolutely ridiculous to compare illegal immigration to car theft. Undocumented migrants don't take anything away from legal American citizens.

Randall Parker said at May 11, 2006 5:29 PM:

Jane,

Yes, American businesses pursue short term profit at the expense of the long term interests of the American people.

It is absolutely ridiculous to argue that the Mexican immigrant deluge isn't costing us big time. Mexican immigrants cost us in the following ways:

1) They get racial preferences in school openings and in jobs. Never mind that they were never victims of slavery. Never mind that they do poorly in school because they have lower average IQs. We have to pay them more and discriminate against white people. Liberals insist on this and so do the Mexican immigrants.

2) Mexicans and Hispanics in general commit crime at a few times the rate of whites. So we pay more from being victims of crime, pay more in fear, in police costs, court operation costs, more time on juries, and more on prisons and other criminal justice system costs.

3) They force a dumbing down of school curricula. Faster track classes for smarter white and Asian students get cancelled because they claim that the lack of Hispanics in the classes mean the schools are being racist.

4) People have to pay more money to send their kids to private schools or they commute greater distances to live in districts without Hispanics in the schools. These are real costs. I know people spending $10,000 per year for their kids to escape the public schools whereas 20 years ago this was not necessary.

I could go on. The evidence is abundant. If you care I can supply links to the evidence on these points.

America is going to hell in a handbasket while the liberals lie that there are not racial differences and they lie that the Mexicans aren't costing us big time. I'm sick and tired of the lies.

Alvaro said at May 14, 2006 7:51 PM:

It is funny to see how so many people have to blame all of their life's failings to poor illegal immigrants. You are losing to someone who had no education who probably knows no or very limited English. You had the priviledge and opportunity to earn an education and make somthing of yourself. Stop rationalizing with the excuse that you are struggling because "illegals have taken your food stamps and overcrowded your school." And Robert, who the hell told you that educational institutions are "breaking the law" by letting illegals in? Google in plyler v doe before you make your assumptions. GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT! And Randall, to those people who are spending $10,000 to send their kids to private schools "without hispanics", tell them they are mentally retarded. If you want to learn, you will learn. You just need the will. Tell them $10,000 will buy a hell of a lot of books for their kids. And now that you brough us up to date with the historical note that indeed "mexicans were never slaves," it is true, but they did lose about half of their land to the Americans during the 1800s. Not saying they should demand things because of it, just thought if you brought up historical facts, so should I.

Robert said at May 20, 2006 12:47 AM:

All Americans quality of life is failing by illegals bringing in their crime,driving illegaly,over crowding and dismattling the medical system etc....You refuse to see this because you are a close minded person (Alvaro)(jane), and dont see the facts but what is acomidating to yourselfs.If all these illegals are allowed to dictate the sovrenty of or nation and say we cant protect our borders from illegals then all legal americans loose.If that nightmare ever happens alvaro and jane be prepared to learn chinese that will be the next wave of illegals and there is no way in hell you or anyone will be able to stop them unless you have a plan to stop billions of people.How will you like america then? you wouldn't and if you say you would then you are really stupid and should get a real educaTION.As for the 1800 whos land was it before Mexico? spain the last race of people to have slaves, your people that you are a decendet from are you resonsible for that? hell no and ethier are anyone who didn't commit a crime..Breaking the law is breaking the law, what part of illegal don't you understand?If schools know they let illegals in then they ARE BREAKING THE LAW! Its a law! something you really need to learn about.Im not on welfare never have been never had food stamps but you are right about the overcrowded schools.Since you and jane like to support people who break the law you both should pay 100% for their upkeep.But you want everyone to pay for it,cant you afford it since your so smart Alvaro and jane? Jane I am not a employer I am a worker,I dont benifit from illegals people who break the law, i follow the law. It is the same as stealing a car,the car cost you money right? well illegals are costing legal americans money a system that is broken crime,medical,welfare,idenity theft etc...You and Alvaro should get together and pay for all the illegals in the united states.You wont though you expect law abidding citizens of this country to pay for criminals, that makes you both criminals.Its called aiding and abeding.Hey Alvaro if any of your ancestors were slave owners or killed anyone you are responsible for that,responsible for something you had no part of.Isn't that a little stupid?If the world thought the way you and jane did then the whole world would be deported.

Alvaro said at May 23, 2006 5:06 PM:

HAHA! What a pendejo, saying things that don't even make any sense to the message I am trying to get across. Its pendejos like you that fuck up the message I am trying to make "SECURE THE BORDER, AND LEGALIZE THE IMMIGRANTS." It is as simple as that.

Anel said at January 16, 2008 1:41 PM:

I'm currently a college student in Louisiana. I am having the hardest time trying to get financial aid because none of the banks or the school is willing to help me out. I'm not even asking for a grant, simply a student loan that WILL be paid back. I am unable to get a loan because i do not have any credit...and how do you get credit...through a loan...exactly! I got married and am currently working on getting my permanent residency, but even that's not good enough. I won't be able to get my "Green Card" until next year. That's how much the government cares about us. It's hard to try and succeed here in the states when the government won' help good students like us that clearly earned the scholarships. People wonder why most of the time they see mexicans working at dead end jobs...there you go. I want to bring this up and try to do something about it but am not sure how. Any suggestions?

solly said at April 23, 2008 8:59 AM:

Hi,

We have a newly established college, of which we are seeking for finincial assistance or sponsor so as to buy the building,equipments and office equipments.

Regards
Malesela

tayra said at June 19, 2008 4:28 PM:

talk a bout being closed minded. I absolutely agree that the children of illegal immigrats should not be punished for being brought here when they didn't have a choice. I magine if when you were a small child your parents took you to another country illegally and you had to learn english, and get accustomed to the american way of life. But then you become an a ult and have to find your own way in life, and come to find that you cannot become a more educated person because you cannot pay for college. Wouldn't you want to stay here, the place where you grew up you whole life? You know that you would never go back to a country which you don't know much about.

chris said at July 10, 2008 12:36 PM:

Like any issue, there are two sides to this story

On one hand, I'm all for illegals being in the country. They supply a lot of very cheap labor. Illegals can't get documented jobs, so they're paid under the counter, and no taxes are paid, by employer or contractor alike. I love the prospect of hiring a crew of illegals to clean my house, watch my kids, fix me meals, etc, all for less than the amount of my cable bill. Hey, if you're illegal, you'll have to do bitch work.

But, sending illegal children to college just makes them qualified for higher-paying jobs, which is detrimental to Mr. Joe US Citizen. Instead of having cheap labor at his disposal, now he is competing against an illegal in the job market! Why give an illegal college opportunities if they aren't even citizens?

Several people have said that it isn't the choice of some illegals to be in America, that they were just brought by their parents. To this I say, too bad. These parents made a bad decision, they are illegal, and so are their immigrant children. If anything, you should be upset at your parents, who completely disregarded the US citizenship process.

And let me state something important...illegals do not have a right to be here. Living in America is a privilege. America is the most developed and prosperous country in the world. Everybody wants to live here, but not everybody can.


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